Pittsburgh Penguins All-Time Draft - (Round 25)

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Re: Pittsburgh Penguins All-Time Draft - (Round 13)

Postby Gaucho on Thu Dec 13, 2012 5:52 pm

Crap, I wanted Bourque.
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Re: Pittsburgh Penguins All-Time Draft - (Round 13)

Postby MRandall25 on Thu Dec 13, 2012 6:26 pm

:D
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Re: Pittsburgh Penguins All-Time Draft - (Round 13)

Postby mikey287 on Thu Dec 13, 2012 8:14 pm

From the peanut gallery...

Peter Lee - A cherry-picker if there ever was one. Seems to have always been a depth forward, used sparingly, wasn't even on a power play specialist like you sometimes see. Difference between Lee and a complimentary scorer, is that Lee simply could not be trusted to play any more than a small handful of minutes in a game. No regular had less ice time in 1978, Pens gave him a decent shot in 1979 - as they pretty much used 3 lines at even time, despite the 32-goal season, his ice time dropped in 1980 - roughly 3rd line minutes, 1981 was a lot like 1979, so Lee got a shot (result of a coaching change, different coach wanted a look - wanted some goals any way he could get them). So he has another 30-goal year in 1981, and they respond by giving him very limited minutes in 1982 - as they had found a better specialist that worked better on the power play. After two 30-goal seasons in the previous four years, the Penguins would leave Lee unprotected in the waiver draft - he went unclaimed by the other 20 teams and was assigned to the AHL. He was recalled in that same season, but again he was outclassed by the other specialist and saw almost no power play time as a result. He left the league after that season. Not that these players won't have flaws at this juncture, but I think there are even better "specialists" available than Lee, in my opinion...all-time OHL draft, now you're talkin'...

Vic Hadfield - solid peak with us even at the end of his career. Integral part of the 1975 team (led all forwards in ATOI), first line LW in 1976 as well. You don't get a lot of longevity out of him, but if you have a spot for him in your lineup, he's got the talent. It's a shame, he suffered a career-ending injury early in the 76-77 season or he might have gone well higher than this. I eyeballed it at 175 games as a Penguin, so you get what you get...

Shawn McEachern - Solid depth guy to have. Every time that I see he played for the 1992 team, I always react like that's the first time I've ever seen or heard of that...very versatile and fast, never got a major opportunity here but played in a depth role quite a bit and killed penalties. He played all three forwards positions here according to my notes...got tangled in that whole Marty McSorley (narrowly ineligible despite two tries) debacle, what a mess...more offensively-gifted Pascal Dupuis I feel, but didn't play here as long...so he goes in a good spot.

Pat Boutette - Was the guy I referenced before when I said "this is a guy I should have drafted, no way he makes it down to me" - I would have put him on the second line and knocked Polis down a peg to be honest. Terrific value pick here. He played right wing for us, but played left wing in his career. Small, but very annoying. A poverty-stricken Pat Verbeek.

We all know about Army and Eaton and what they can and can't do...Phil Bourque, accurately mentioned as a D/LW, versatile depth guy - seems to be a small run of them right here. I actually underrated Bourque going into this, this is a good pick here. He scored more than I thought without much fanfare or all that much in the way of time...had some PP time early on after he switched from D to LW, but really, he just did his job. Good pick, wish I would have thought about him before brushing him off...

I'll make a pick here in just a moment...
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Re: Pittsburgh Penguins All-Time Draft - (Round 13)

Postby mikey287 on Thu Dec 13, 2012 8:27 pm

Everyone else seems to be taking some annoying depth, so I better not miss out...now, I have in my notes that he played D and RW, I'll have to check where I got that from him...in Pittsburgh, it seems he played D exclusively or almost exclusively, I'll have to do some digging...

Bryan Watson, D

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"Bugsy" - agitator extraordinaire.

'Hockey' magazine - 1974 wrote:...cause havoc and chaos to the opposition. "Bryan is an agitator," said his coach XXX XXXXXXXX. "He is very verbal and will take whatever steps necessary to do his thing. That thing means to get into fights, give elbows, and make people boo when he comes on the ice." ||| Bryan has tangled with the Rangers' Vic Hadfield five times. He has had innumerable confrontations with Wayne Cashman and a few slugfests with Dave Schultz... Just recently, he gave the Islanders' prized rookie Denis Potvin an initiation to the fighting game. ||| [Butt-ends] have become a Bugsy specialty. So have slashes on ankles, knees in stomachs and sticks at necks... ||| "I felt it when Bryan came to say hello in the corners," [said XXXXXXXX]. ||| Every day he's on the ice and playing like there won't be another chance or another tomorrow. ||| "I've gotten mine back and I just say 'so what?' and start over. In fact, I know I have to get hit," [said Watson].


Legends of Hockey wrote:A loyal and absolutely fearless player who never hesitated to stop pucks with his head if the situation called for it, Bryan was a great teammate. In the dressing room he was always on the lookout for a good practical joke. He knew when to lighten the bench, and when to set a fire under someone's ass. He was definitely one of those players who every team liked to have on their side.


Was the all-time penalty minute leader until Dave "The Hammer" Schultz swiped that thorny crown...
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Re: Pittsburgh Penguins All-Time Draft - (Round 14)

Postby dman66 on Thu Dec 13, 2012 8:40 pm

No going to lie, I'm a little sad at not getting McEachern. I was hoping he was going to slip down to me again, but that was the risk I took in taking Buskas.
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Re: Pittsburgh Penguins All-Time Draft - (Round 14)

Postby Gaucho on Thu Dec 13, 2012 9:26 pm

I'm going to take the guy who mikey, I believe, referred to as the other specialist.

Paul Gardner, C

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I thought for some reason that he had already been taken, because such an accomplished goal scorer should be a sought-after commodity. Drafted 11th overall in 1976 by the Kansas City Chiefs, Gardner was never going to contend for the Selke Trophy, but he was a smart player with a penchant for taking up residence in the slot and scoring on rebounds and deflections. He enjoyed seasons of 34, 36, and 28 goals for Pens, before he was stopped by a freak injury.
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Re: Pittsburgh Penguins All-Time Draft - (Round 14)

Postby mikey287 on Thu Dec 13, 2012 9:29 pm

Gaucho wrote:I'm going to take the guy who mikey, I believe, referred to as the other specialist.


You are correct, sir. :thumb:
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Re: Pittsburgh Penguins All-Time Draft - (Round 14)

Postby Gaucho on Thu Dec 13, 2012 9:30 pm

I'm undecided whether to play Gardner at center (and move Nedved to LW) or wing, but he's definitely bumping Errey from the Top 6.
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Re: Pittsburgh Penguins All-Time Draft - (Round 14)

Postby mikey287 on Thu Dec 13, 2012 9:33 pm

Gaucho wrote:I'm undecided whether to play Gardner at center (and move Nedved to LW) or wing, but he's definitely bumping Errey from the Top 6.


I'm not sure I see any evidence that he played anything but center in his career. When in doubt, do what NHL coaches did with him at his peak...4th line, 1st PP. That would be what I would do with him if I drafted him. Your call...
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Re: Pittsburgh Penguins All-Time Draft - (Round 14)

Postby Gaucho on Thu Dec 13, 2012 9:43 pm

That is of course another possibility. I wasn't sure how much coaches trusted him at ES.
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Re: Pittsburgh Penguins All-Time Draft - (Round 14)

Postby mikey287 on Thu Dec 13, 2012 10:03 pm

Not at all really. In cash-strapped Colorado he got some time. His first year in Pittsburgh he got as much time as Peter Lee (heaven forbid if they were on a line together) as an evaluation process. He scored over a point per game and was rewarded with 4th line minutes the next season. But it appears he played first power play (Boutette-Gardner-Kehoe-Carlyle being the meat of it). But it says a lot, that even on those desolate teams, even with his scoring prowess, the coach's didn't like him so much that they relegated him to the bench for much of the 5-on-5 play over the course of a few years...not games, years...

On that note, has anyone's research led to any acknowledgement of forwards playing the point of some of our power plays?
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Re: Pittsburgh Penguins All-Time Draft - (Round 14)

Postby Rylan on Thu Dec 13, 2012 10:05 pm

Kovalev and I think Straka played point for awhile. I knew for awhile when Lemieux came back it was an all-forward first unit.
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Re: Pittsburgh Penguins All-Time Draft - (Round 14)

Postby Gaucho on Thu Dec 13, 2012 10:07 pm

Well, Ron Francis.
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Re: Pittsburgh Penguins All-Time Draft - (Round 14)

Postby Gaucho on Thu Dec 13, 2012 10:08 pm

And Fedotenko. :?
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Re: Pittsburgh Penguins All-Time Draft - (Round 14)

Postby dman66 on Thu Dec 13, 2012 10:20 pm

With the 84th pick in the draft, Left Wing Locks are pleased to select:

Left Wing - #26 Ruslan Fedotenko

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We call it Ruslan Fedotenko Hockey, and, when we say that, we know what that is.


Left wing who was slotted on the second line with Malkin, Fedotenko was brought in as a plan B the year after missing out on Ryan Malone and Marian Hossa. Fedotenko's style typified the Pens amazing February - June run, culminating in his 2nd Stanley Cup.
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Re: Pittsburgh Penguins All-Time Draft - (Round 14)

Postby mikey287 on Thu Dec 13, 2012 10:20 pm

Yes, the late 90's - early 00's Penguin power play was very forward heavy. Francis as a distributor, sure. Anything back further?
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Re: Pittsburgh Penguins All-Time Draft - (Round 14)

Postby Rylan on Thu Dec 13, 2012 10:22 pm

I haven't found anything. But my research has been rough going.
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Re: Pittsburgh Penguins All-Time Draft - (Round 14)

Postby mikey287 on Thu Dec 13, 2012 10:27 pm

mikey287 wrote: But it appears he played first power play (Boutette-Gardner-Kehoe-Carlyle being the meat of it).


I believe - and neglected to mention - this power play (1981-82) is the most lethal in Penguins history (99 of 404, 24.5%). Aided a tiny bit by the less sensitive looks at interference while a team has a man advantage.
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Re: Pittsburgh Penguins All-Time Draft - (Round 15)

Postby Rylan on Thu Dec 13, 2012 10:29 pm

I wish goalies would go back to sucking.
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Re: Pittsburgh Penguins All-Time Draft - (Round 14)

Postby MRandall25 on Thu Dec 13, 2012 10:29 pm

mikey287 wrote:
mikey287 wrote: But it appears he played first power play (Boutette-Gardner-Kehoe-Carlyle being the meat of it).


I believe - and neglected to mention - this power play (1981-82) is the most lethal in Penguins history (99 of 404, 24.5%). Aided a tiny bit by the less sensitive looks at interference while a team has a man advantage.


Is that also a by-product of the insane amount of scoring in those years?
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Re: Pittsburgh Penguins All-Time Draft - (Round 15)

Postby Rylan on Thu Dec 13, 2012 10:31 pm

I thought the late 70s early 80s scoring was rough going? It wasn't until really the mid-80s through the early 90s where scoring was bonkers?
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Re: Pittsburgh Penguins All-Time Draft - (Round 14)

Postby dman66 on Thu Dec 13, 2012 10:36 pm

Pick #85, to fill out my third line, Left Wing Locks select:

Right Wing - #48 Tyler Kennedy

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Kennedy gets a lot of crap. He scores big goals (9 playoff goals in 67 games as mostly a 3rd liner, 5 of which are GWG). He fits in perfectly on a third line and I don't expect him to move up any on my lineup, so he's a perfect spot there.

Getting to the point where there may be better picks (probably splitting hairs), but I'm going with guys I know for some spots. Pretty happy with my forwards and D.
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Re: Pittsburgh Penguins All-Time Draft - (Round 15)

Postby Rylan on Thu Dec 13, 2012 10:41 pm

I honestly forgot all about TK.
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Re: Pittsburgh Penguins All-Time Draft - (Round 14)

Postby mikey287 on Thu Dec 13, 2012 11:03 pm

MRandall25 wrote:
mikey287 wrote:
mikey287 wrote: But it appears he played first power play (Boutette-Gardner-Kehoe-Carlyle being the meat of it).


I believe - and neglected to mention - this power play (1981-82) is the most lethal in Penguins history (99 of 404, 24.5%). Aided a tiny bit by the less sensitive looks at interference while a team has a man advantage.


Is that also a by-product of the insane amount of scoring in those years?


Quite possibly. But regardless, of all the offensively-gifted we've had in our history, you wouldn't guess we'd just now be picking the players (Boutette, Gardner) of the team's best ever power play unit either.

@rylan - The late 70's (thanks to over-zealous expansion and the dilution of talent) and early 80's (WHA merged in, adding more crap - and Gretzky) were some of the highest scoring times we've seen actually. Even the 1981 playoffs averaged nearly 8 goals per contest...

@ the tongue-in-cheek comment about goalies sucking. Goalies suck now too, they're just protected better. Watching the old game film, you really gain an appreciation for what pure goaltending looked like. People always make fun on some of the highlight videos where goalies look like they can stand up out there...and honestly, some of the guys that came through as a result of over-expansion stunk up the joint...offense advanced faster than goaltending did at this time. Name the 3 best goalies from 1990-present...easy one. Now quick, name the 3 best goalies from 1979-1989. Not so easy, whether you lived and breathed hockey then or not...I think people get the wrong idea sometimes from highlights of guys scoring that goalies were all terrible then (go figure...). There was good and bad. Now there's not really many bad ones, they're all pretty much the same. And as luck would have it, it seems like the worst ones win a lot...but that's a story for another time...
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Re: Pittsburgh Penguins All-Time Draft - (Round 15)

Postby Rylan on Thu Dec 13, 2012 11:08 pm

Billy Smith, Ron Hextall, Grant Fuhr?

Top of my head and probably wrong.
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