Sandy Hook Tragedy

Forum for posts that are not hockey-related.

Moderators: Three Stars, dagny, pfim, netwolf

Re: Breaking: School shooting in CT

Postby newarenanow on Mon Dec 17, 2012 5:29 pm

I just looked through a link with all the pictures of the deceased. I wish I didn't. It just makes me even more sick now that their are faces.
newarenanow
NHL Third Liner
NHL Third Liner
 
Posts: 41,180
Joined: Fri Feb 24, 2006 1:56 pm

Re: Breaking: School shooting in CT

Postby count2infinity on Mon Dec 17, 2012 5:34 pm

know what's sick? Westboro Baptist Church is going to have a praise gathering outside of the school to celebrate God's will...

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... ds-newsxml

sorry if this was brought up already.
count2infinity
NHL Fourth Liner
NHL Fourth Liner
 
Posts: 20,605
Joined: Sun Mar 04, 2007 3:03 pm
Location: Can't wait for playoffs to up the dumb level ten fold in this place.

Re: Breaking: School shooting in CT

Postby shmenguin on Mon Dec 17, 2012 5:40 pm

can't "disorderly conduct" ever be applied to these freaks?
shmenguin
NHL Fourth Liner
NHL Fourth Liner
 
Posts: 22,370
Joined: Mon Nov 06, 2006 11:34 pm

Re: Breaking: School shooting in CT

Postby ulf on Mon Dec 17, 2012 5:40 pm

Just read an article about one first grade girl who was the only survivor from her class. She played dead. Her first words out were "Mommy I'm okay but all my friends are dead" :( that's the saddest thing ever
ulf
NHL Healthy Scratch
NHL Healthy Scratch
 
Posts: 13,523
Joined: Wed Oct 03, 2007 4:41 pm

Re: Breaking: School shooting in CT

Postby the wicked child on Mon Dec 17, 2012 5:49 pm

:(
the wicked child
NHL Fourth Liner
NHL Fourth Liner
 
Posts: 16,517
Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2006 2:11 pm
Location: :scared:

Re: Breaking: School shooting in CT

Postby Sarcastic on Mon Dec 17, 2012 7:13 pm

shafnutz05 wrote:Yeah, it's incredible to me that the media still fixates on violent video games.


In and of itself, true. There are several factors that go into shaping such an individual.

My stance today and from 20 years ago remains the same. Let me explain something. When I was growing up in Poland, the cartoons we had were based on adventures and fun. Whether they were made in Poland or imported from other European makers, they didn't show any violent cartoons on TV. I was in shock when I came here and began watching American cartoons like Tom and Jerry or Road Runner and Wile E Coyote. From the moment an american child is born, they watch a cartoon character put a gun in another one's face and blast away. Or tie dynamite to another's back and blow it up. You don't think that has any effect at all? This desensitizing only continues until adulthood. Randall or Shyster blame 'culture' for why we've become such a violent country. Well, what is culture? Who sets the trends on what to wear, how to talk, latest slang words, opinions, cool toys to own. It's people in the media, the movie stars and musicians and the athletes. I have to add video games to that. It's not parents.

You may have the best parents in the world, but the moment they let go a little and, even if they don't, there is so much negative influence coming at your kid from the latest cd, or video game, or the latest movie, that overtime it very well may desensitize some impressionable kids. Even if just a little and even if most are able to overcome it, it wouldn't surprise me one bit that some individuals are bound to be affected - the ones without better supervision or perhaps with a disease or emotional problem. Normal people snap, too. If, let's say, a kid is bothered in school day in and day out. He'll go watch a movie about a massacre, or play a game, put himself in that mindframe and there he goes. This does not even include regular fights, the attacks on random people, the violent street brawls. It wasn't like this when I was growing up. You'd punch in the face a few times and that'd be it. Now a group of teens are willing to stomp on your head and turn you into a vegetable. That has to come from something. Lack of parenting, one, but also all the daily influence from multiple sources. You add the relative ease of obtaining a gun and we have a mass massacre. As Obama said, this is his 4th since he became president.

I don't know how much we can do anymore. As I told Shyster the other day, I'm not sure we can easily change this culture. Which is why I don't see any other alternative other than to make gun laws strickter and gun availability tighter. Or nothing will change.
Sarcastic
NHL Fourth Liner
NHL Fourth Liner
 
Posts: 15,283
Joined: Fri Oct 05, 2007 3:49 pm

Re: Breaking: School shooting in CT

Postby Sarcastic on Mon Dec 17, 2012 7:22 pm

This was supposed to go in the Political thread, but since it's related to the latest shooting, I'll leave it here. This is Joe Scarborough reversing his stance on gun ownership. It's one heck of a speech.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3036789/ns/msnbc-morning_joe/#50222624
Sarcastic
NHL Fourth Liner
NHL Fourth Liner
 
Posts: 15,283
Joined: Fri Oct 05, 2007 3:49 pm

Re: Breaking: School shooting in CT

Postby Tico Rick on Mon Dec 17, 2012 7:30 pm

Very thoughtful post, Sarcastic. In the fast-paced world we live in, it isn't easy for parents to devote as much time and attention to their kids as they should, and even the best intentioned of parents fight a tough battle against the barrage of verbal and visual information that their kids are subjected to - even with something as basic as what kind of foods their kids should eat.

I see tighter regulation of guns as a necessary but partial solution to the problem. It's tough to change a culture, and it can't be done overnight, but look at how the tobacco culture has eroded, or how our views of drunk driving has changed in a relatively short time period. It can happen. Maybe this will be the good that will come out of the Sandy Hook tragedy.
Tico Rick
AHL Hall of Famer
AHL Hall of Famer
 
Posts: 9,149
Joined: Wed Feb 01, 2006 9:12 am
Location: It's a great day for hockey!

Re: Breaking: School shooting in CT

Postby ExPatriatePen on Mon Dec 17, 2012 7:40 pm

If Adam lanza was known to have such mental health issues, why in the world would his mother have condoned this:

Also Monday, the federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives said that investigators had determined that Adam Lanza visited multiple shooting ranges over the years and “engaged in shooting activities.”


http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/ ... story.html

In comparison to Video games, I'd say this was the greater issue.
ExPatriatePen
NHL Fourth Liner
NHL Fourth Liner
 
Posts: 22,691
Joined: Sat Feb 04, 2006 3:57 pm
Location: Source, Destination, Protocol, Port, size, sequence number, check sum... Yep, that about covers it.

Re: Breaking: School shooting in CT

Postby MRandall25 on Mon Dec 17, 2012 8:00 pm

While I do say the culture may be a problem, it is again not the only issue. I grew up on games like Goldeneye, Halo, MoH, Battlefield 1942, etc., but I nor the vast majority of others who played the same games or watched the same movies or TV shows are going around killing people as we pleased.

Solely blaming culture (which is not what I've been doing) is just as big a problem as solely blaming guns, or solely blaming mental illness, or solely blaming the parents, or... you get the idea. It's similar to Columbine and parents blaming Marilyn Manson's music because the kids just happened to be listening to it.

Do we see a lot of violence and are we desensitized? Certainly. Can the overwhelming majority of Americans separate real life from images? Yes.

The point is, when 1 person can't do ALL of the above, we have problems. It's an inevitability. Yet, there's literally nothing we can do to make an immediate fix, which is what everyone seems to want after incidents like this. This isn't something like 9/11 where you can immediately heighten security at airports and take away 95% of the danger.

Truth is, there isn't 1 way to fix it. There's about 50. And they're harder to accomplish than any of us realize. But, it starts and ends with the news media.
MRandall25
NHL Fourth Liner
NHL Fourth Liner
 
Posts: 16,664
Joined: Tue Dec 06, 2011 6:11 pm
Location: BOBROVSKY!!!

Re: Breaking: School shooting in CT

Postby tfrizz on Mon Dec 17, 2012 8:17 pm

Sarcastic wrote:
shafnutz05 wrote:Yeah, it's incredible to me that the media still fixates on violent video games.


In and of itself, true. There are several factors that go into shaping such an individual.

My stance today and from 20 years ago remains the same. Let me explain something. When I was growing up in Poland, the cartoons we had were based on adventures and fun. Whether they were made in Poland or imported from other European makers, they didn't show any violent cartoons on TV. I was in shock when I came here and began watching American cartoons like Tom and Jerry or Road Runner and Wile E Coyote. From the moment an american child is born, they watch a cartoon character put a gun in another one's face and blast away. Or tie dynamite to another's back and blow it up. You don't think that has any effect at all? This desensitizing only continues until adulthood. Randall or Shyster blame 'culture' for why we've become such a violent country. Well, what is culture? Who sets the trends on what to wear, how to talk, latest slang words, opinions, cool toys to own. It's people in the media, the movie stars and musicians and the athletes. I have to add video games to that. It's not parents.

You may have the best parents in the world, but the moment they let go a little and, even if they don't, there is so much negative influence coming at your kid from the latest cd, or video game, or the latest movie, that overtime it very well may desensitize some impressionable kids. Even if just a little and even if most are able to overcome it, it wouldn't surprise me one bit that some individuals are bound to be affected - the ones without better supervision or perhaps with a disease or emotional problem. Normal people snap, too. If, let's say, a kid is bothered in school day in and day out. He'll go watch a movie about a massacre, or play a game, put himself in that mindframe and there he goes. This does not even include regular fights, the attacks on random people, the violent street brawls. It wasn't like this when I was growing up. You'd punch in the face a few times and that'd be it. Now a group of teens are willing to stomp on your head and turn you into a vegetable. That has to come from something. Lack of parenting, one, but also all the daily influence from multiple sources. You add the relative ease of obtaining a gun and we have a mass massacre. As Obama said, this is his 4th since he became president.

I don't know how much we can do anymore. As I told Shyster the other day, I'm not sure we can easily change this culture. Which is why I don't see any other alternative other than to make gun laws strickter and gun availability tighter. Or nothing will change.


I did a short research paper on violence in entertainment (predominantly TV and video games) for a sociology/criminology class back in May. While an argument can be made for correlation - being that these violent offenders are likely to have played violent games (that's a no-brainer IMO) - there is absolutely no grounds to claim causation. If playing violent games or watching violent TV/movies caused this stuff to happen, there would be a much bigger problem with this kind of violence worldwide.
tfrizz
AHL Hall of Famer
AHL Hall of Famer
 
Posts: 8,126
Joined: Wed Oct 21, 2009 9:49 am
Location: Freddy Beach

Re: Breaking: School shooting in CT

Postby tfrizz on Mon Dec 17, 2012 8:19 pm

I also found this tweet from Michael Moore rather interesting:


Michael Moore ‏@MMFlint
I hate to say it, but killing is our way. We began America w/ genocide,then built it w/ slaves. The shootings will continue- it's who we are
tfrizz
AHL Hall of Famer
AHL Hall of Famer
 
Posts: 8,126
Joined: Wed Oct 21, 2009 9:49 am
Location: Freddy Beach

Re: Breaking: School shooting in CT

Postby Gaucho on Mon Dec 17, 2012 8:22 pm

Very helpful, Mr. Moore.
Gaucho
NHL Third Liner
NHL Third Liner
 
Posts: 40,648
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2006 10:22 am
Location: The Onyx Club

Re: Breaking: School shooting in CT

Postby Gaucho on Mon Dec 17, 2012 8:32 pm

As far as video games and such things are concerned, I find it interesting that these things are only brought up when the perpetrator(s) play ego shooters or listen to heavy metal. You never hear about it when they happen to like jigsaw puzzles and REO Speedwagon.

The absolute low point was when after Columbine some German media clown made a big deal of the fact that the perp listened to The Cure's Killing An Arab. It's a song based on Albert Camus' The Stranger, for heaven's sake.
Gaucho
NHL Third Liner
NHL Third Liner
 
Posts: 40,648
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2006 10:22 am
Location: The Onyx Club

Re: Breaking: School shooting in CT

Postby doublem on Mon Dec 17, 2012 8:46 pm

AlexPKeaton wrote:Dropping in late to this thread. Has the possibility of a re-funding of "softer" types of mental institutions come up? It is a bit disconcerting to me that the media is talking non stop about gun control, when no amount of gun control would have prevented this from happening as he simply stole the guns from someone who would have gotten approved under even the strictest standards. Seems like the media is wasting everyone's time again for ratings.


state hospitals have many of their own issues. I think we have 1 left in western, pa. we do have some crisis units and hospitals themselves have psych wards but the money just isn't really there.
doublem
NHL Healthy Scratch
NHL Healthy Scratch
 
Posts: 13,430
Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2006 8:05 pm

Re: Breaking: School shooting in CT

Postby doublem on Mon Dec 17, 2012 8:48 pm

pittsoccer33 wrote:a psychiatrist was a guest on Limbaugh's show today. she was going over just how hard it is to commit somebody to a mental health institution. basically they have a right to not take medicine and to be "crazy." there is no way to force a mentally ill person to take medicine.


that's somewhat correct, you have to have a 302 to get someone into a hospital but this can be a tough process to undertake. police get involved and it gets nasty.
doublem
NHL Healthy Scratch
NHL Healthy Scratch
 
Posts: 13,430
Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2006 8:05 pm

Re: Breaking: School shooting in CT

Postby pittsports87 on Mon Dec 17, 2012 8:59 pm

CBear3 wrote:There are over 20k hits on the word "kill" on this website alone.

A couple of pages late, but not really fair to look at the results for that word on a hockey site. I'm sure a majority of them were from GDT's when the Penguins took a penalty and were trying to kill the penalty.
pittsports87
NHL Healthy Scratch
NHL Healthy Scratch
 
Posts: 11,418
Joined: Thu Aug 19, 2010 12:44 pm
Location: College

Re: Breaking: School shooting in CT

Postby Gaucho on Mon Dec 17, 2012 9:03 pm

Or the Penguins PP killed our momentum.
Gaucho
NHL Third Liner
NHL Third Liner
 
Posts: 40,648
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2006 10:22 am
Location: The Onyx Club

Re: Breaking: School shooting in CT

Postby FreeCandy44 on Mon Dec 17, 2012 9:05 pm

Kill the wabbit?
FreeCandy44
NHL Fourth Liner
NHL Fourth Liner
 
Posts: 20,223
Joined: Tue Dec 15, 2009 1:55 pm
Location: The biggest Pearl Jam fan in Pittsburgh.

Re: Breaking: School shooting in CT

Postby Lt. Dish on Mon Dec 17, 2012 9:51 pm

Tim Thomasen wrote:
MWB wrote:Was his violence connected to his Aspergers? A lot of people are capable of being violent. I'm not trying to be argumentative, it just goes against the research and my personal experience working with kids who have Aspergers. I'd hate for people to think that because a persone has Aspergers they are more inclined to commit an act like this, because I don't believe that's true.


I suffer from Aspergers and high functional autism. Despite my flaws, I maintain a normal life, have friends and I do very well in school.... Just thought I share that.


Thank you for sharing this. You have been dealt a challenge for sure. I've never walked in your shoes, so I wouldn't presume to know what you go through. But please allow me to say that you're not flawed. :)
Lt. Dish
AHL Hall of Famer
AHL Hall of Famer
 
Posts: 9,620
Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2012 10:07 pm
Location: Advancing on defensive indifference

Re: Breaking: School shooting in CT

Postby FreeCandy44 on Mon Dec 17, 2012 10:15 pm

:) @ tim
FreeCandy44
NHL Fourth Liner
NHL Fourth Liner
 
Posts: 20,223
Joined: Tue Dec 15, 2009 1:55 pm
Location: The biggest Pearl Jam fan in Pittsburgh.

Re: Breaking: School shooting in CT

Postby Sarcastic on Tue Dec 18, 2012 4:52 am

tfrizz wrote:I did a short research paper on violence in entertainment (predominantly TV and video games) for a sociology/criminology class back in May. While an argument can be made for correlation - being that these violent offenders are likely to have played violent games (that's a no-brainer IMO) - there is absolutely no grounds to claim causation. If playing violent games or watching violent TV/movies caused this stuff to happen, there would be a much bigger problem with this kind of violence worldwide.


I'll have to respectfully disagree and remind that we are not looking at the majority of the population in the US but the few, the several, people who may follow through with such actions. Although we should be, because Americans are move violent than ever. I don't know if numbers would confirm that, but the kinds of acts and behavior we are seeing should. There isn't any reason that I can find, other than what I described. I'll go on a limb and say that we all here agree there is a problem with our culture. Again, I ask. Who or what creates culture.

Furthermore, I have always found a noticeable difference between Americans and Europeans. I like Europeans better. I like the more closely knit structure better. I don't like American individualism.
Sarcastic
NHL Fourth Liner
NHL Fourth Liner
 
Posts: 15,283
Joined: Fri Oct 05, 2007 3:49 pm

Re: Breaking: School shooting in CT

Postby Sarcastic on Tue Dec 18, 2012 5:02 am

MRandall25 wrote:Truth is, there isn't 1 way to fix it. There's about 50. And they're harder to accomplish than any of us realize. But, it starts and ends with the news media.


A simple fix is to take away guns. Take away guns, people won't shoot each other. We may have a few fist fights or stabbings. But we won't have a situation where a guy walks into a school with an assault rifle that holds a 30 round magazine. He could then maybe attack one person with a knife before being taken down.

I'm not saying that's what I want to do because I wouldn't want to take guns away from serious hunters (as much as I dislike hunting), for one. But it can't continue that they are so widely available. Or sold at private sales without authorization or background check. I like those mental evaluations in China.
Sarcastic
NHL Fourth Liner
NHL Fourth Liner
 
Posts: 15,283
Joined: Fri Oct 05, 2007 3:49 pm

Re: Breaking: School shooting in CT

Postby bh on Tue Dec 18, 2012 8:00 am

Sarcastic wrote:A simple fix is to take away guns. Take away guns, people won't shoot each other. We may have a few fist fights or stabbings. But we won't have a situation where a guy walks into a school with an assault rifle that holds a 30 round magazine. He could then maybe attack one person with a knife before being taken down.

I'm not saying that's what I want to do because I wouldn't want to take guns away from serious hunters (as much as I dislike hunting), for one. But it can't continue that they are so widely available. Or sold at private sales without authorization or background check. I like those mental evaluations in China.
I haven't hunted in PA in a while. but when I used to, you could not hunt deer with a semi-auto rifle. I don't know if things have changed but there really is no reason they couldn't get rid of semi-automatics. I'm not sure how effective that would be though. The only crimes that I think that this would prevent are the spontaneuos ones where there's a gun and someone just spur of the moment decides to go wacko. Anyone who is going to plan at all will find a way. They will eithor find the guns they want OR they could do worse. They could make a big bomb suit, walk anywhere there are a lot of people, and kablewie. People like that, you're just not going to stop with gun laws.
bh
AHL'er
AHL'er
 
Posts: 4,491
Joined: Sat Feb 18, 2006 12:48 am

Re: Breaking: School shooting in CT

Postby bh on Tue Dec 18, 2012 8:59 am

Sarcastic wrote:I'll have to respectfully disagree and remind that we are not looking at the majority of the population in the US but the few, the several, people who may follow through with such actions. Although we should be, because Americans are move violent than ever. I don't know if numbers would confirm that, but the kinds of acts and behavior we are seeing should. There isn't any reason that I can find, other than what I described. I'll go on a limb and say that we all here agree there is a problem with our culture. Again, I ask. Who or what creates culture.

No, I don't think the numbers confirm this at all.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/c ... weapon.svg
I think the news sensationalizes stories these days and makes it appear like the end of days all the time.
People are violent, have always been violent.
I'd say there's about a 0.0000001% chance that this would happen to *your* kid.
Schools are actually pretty safe for the most part IMHO.
bh
AHL'er
AHL'er
 
Posts: 4,491
Joined: Sat Feb 18, 2006 12:48 am

PreviousNext

Return to NHR

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: blackjack68, Shyster and 4 guests

e-mail