Sandy Hook Tragedy

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Re: Breaking: School shooting in CT

Postby DelPen on Wed Dec 19, 2012 10:46 am

Gaucho wrote:You'd rather lock away the mentally ill than guns?


Yes. James Holmes was identified as a danger by his college but since the semester was over they dropped the issue. Adam Lanza was going to be treated but his mother had to go through too many hoops especially after CT did not pass a law that would have made it easier to get him the help he needed. Both Aurora and Newtown could have been avoided if we treated mental illness as a serious problem.

How is that a controversial position?
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Re: Breaking: School shooting in CT

Postby shmenguin on Wed Dec 19, 2012 10:56 am

ExPatriatePen wrote:
MRandall25 wrote:The FBI is currently trying to get info from his hard drive. He apparently did a good job of damaging it enough that it isn't as simple as plugging it in and getting what they need.


He was suppose to be fairly astute from a technical perspective. If you have *any* real understanding of how HDD's work, it's not hard to make them totally unreadable.


seems like simply formatting it would do the trick - but forensics isn't really my thing

i imagine the authorities should be able to be able to get his internet provider to hand over his web history, though
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Re: Breaking: School shooting in CT

Postby shmenguin on Wed Dec 19, 2012 11:02 am

i'm not trying to push an agenda here - just curious. for gun owners...

if you have a child whose mental state has brought you to the point of deciding to commit them to an institution. and you know that this child is very familiar with using firearms...what do you do with your guns? i realize there are other variables here, like whether or not there's a history of violent outbursts, but i'm just approaching this very broadly.

again, this isn't about gun control, and i'm not saying what you SHOULD do with them. i'm just curious.
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Re: Breaking: School shooting in CT

Postby ExPatriatePen on Wed Dec 19, 2012 11:02 am

shmenguin wrote:
ExPatriatePen wrote:
MRandall25 wrote:The FBI is currently trying to get info from his hard drive. He apparently did a good job of damaging it enough that it isn't as simple as plugging it in and getting what they need.


He was suppose to be fairly astute from a technical perspective. If you have *any* real understanding of how HDD's work, it's not hard to make them totally unreadable.


seems like simply formatting it would do the trick - but forensics isn't really my thing

i imagine the authorities should be able to be able to get his internet provider to hand over his web history, though


Formatting leaves traces that high level government agencies can still recover from in most cases. (There's a technology called SED, or Self Encrypted Hard Drive, that is nearly impossible to crack.)

Secondly, ISP's don;t typically keep history of browsing, what's interesting though is that if you're logged into Google, most of your web surfing is captured by them.
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Re: Breaking: School shooting in CT

Postby Gaucho on Wed Dec 19, 2012 11:06 am

DelPen wrote:
Gaucho wrote:You'd rather lock away the mentally ill than guns?


Yes. James Holmes was identified as a danger by his college but since the semester was over they dropped the issue. Adam Lanza was going to be treated but his mother had to go through too many hoops especially after CT did not pass a law that would have made it easier to get him the help he needed. Both Aurora and Newtown could have been avoided if we treated mental illness as a serious problem.

How is that a controversial position?


How wanting to lock away the mentally ill is a controversial position?
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Re: Breaking: School shooting in CT

Postby shmenguin on Wed Dec 19, 2012 11:07 am

the use of the expression "lock away" is excessive here
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Re: Breaking: School shooting in CT

Postby Gaucho on Wed Dec 19, 2012 11:09 am

shmenguin wrote:the use of the expression "lock away" is excessive here


But it's the expression I used. As an exaggeration, mind you.
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Re: Breaking: School shooting in CT

Postby mac5155 on Wed Dec 19, 2012 11:10 am

shmenguin wrote:i'm not trying to push an agenda here - just curious. for gun owners...

if you have a child whose mental state has brought you to the point of deciding to commit them to an institution. and you know that this child is very familiar with using firearms...what do you do with your guns? i realize there are other variables here, like whether or not there's a history of violent outbursts, but i'm just approaching this very broadly.

again, this isn't about gun control, and i'm not saying what you SHOULD do with them. i'm just curious.


Probably wouldn't keep them anywhere that he has access to, perhaps in a locked room in a safe or something like that. It's tough to say in that situation though because i've never been there.
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Re: Breaking: School shooting in CT

Postby Gaucho on Wed Dec 19, 2012 11:11 am

If I had a child I'd keep it away from guns regardless of its mental state, but that's just me.
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Re: Breaking: School shooting in CT

Postby mac5155 on Wed Dec 19, 2012 11:21 am

Well duh, I'm talking a 20 year old son.
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Re: Breaking: School shooting in CT

Postby Gaucho on Wed Dec 19, 2012 11:22 am

Generally speaking.
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Re: Breaking: School shooting in CT

Postby Tico Rick on Wed Dec 19, 2012 11:25 am

shmenguin wrote:
Tico Rick wrote:Care to share that evidence?


people have left manifestos behind. it certainly doesn't apply to all incidents, but even it it's just "some", it's worth examining. i also suggest watching this.



are you saying that you believe that the publicity/legacy makes no difference in all cases?


Interesting clip with good advice from the psychologist, but I'm not sure you can statistically show that his assertion has merit.

I'm sure publicity has some effect, but I don't see how limiting/preventing instant reporting of events on CNN or other networks is going to prevent details of those events from coming out, whether it be in weekly or monthly magazines or books written about the events. Short of a blanket blackout on coverage, details of the events will come out on way or another.
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Re: Breaking: School shooting in CT

Postby shmenguin on Wed Dec 19, 2012 11:42 am

Tico Rick wrote:
shmenguin wrote:
Tico Rick wrote:Care to share that evidence?


people have left manifestos behind. it certainly doesn't apply to all incidents, but even it it's just "some", it's worth examining. i also suggest watching this.



are you saying that you believe that the publicity/legacy makes no difference in all cases?


Interesting clip with good advice from the psychologist, but I'm not sure you can statistically show that his assertion has merit.

I'm sure publicity has some effect, but I don't see how limiting/preventing instant reporting of events on CNN or other networks is going to prevent details of those events from coming out, whether it be in weekly or monthly magazines or books written about the events. Short of a blanket blackout on coverage, details of the events will come out on way or another.


"statistics"? eh. the guy who shot up the gym left a message for the world. and we heard it because of his actions. the unibomber famously had a manifesto. and it was heard because of this actions. i can't put this in a math problem or compare it to switzerland, but if you don't think that's "evidence" (and remember the difference between evidence and proof) of publicity being a potential contributor to , i don't know what to say.
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Re: Breaking: School shooting in CT

Postby Tico Rick on Wed Dec 19, 2012 1:13 pm

Did any attacker's "manifesto", or did any friends/relatives/acquaintances of the attacker, make mention of the attacker being influenced by news reports of past mass murders? If not, it's highly speculative to put the blame on the news media.
Last edited by Tico Rick on Wed Dec 19, 2012 1:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Breaking: School shooting in CT

Postby MRandall25 on Wed Dec 19, 2012 1:13 pm

http://www.buzzfeed.com/jwherrman/newto ... n-facebook

Just sad how low the media will stoop.
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Re: Breaking: School shooting in CT

Postby Tico Rick on Wed Dec 19, 2012 1:15 pm

That's pretty disgraceful.
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Re: Breaking: School shooting in CT

Postby llipgh2 on Wed Dec 19, 2012 4:31 pm

Victor Cruz met with the family of Jack Pinto. Cruz was the little boy's favorite NFL player, and the family buried him in his Cruz jersey.

http://espn.go.com/new-york/nfl/story/_/id/8762755/victor-cruz-new-york-giants-wide-receiver-recounts-meeting-family-jack-pinto-shooting-victim-newton-conn
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Re: Breaking: School shooting in CT

Postby Rylan on Wed Dec 19, 2012 4:37 pm

Good on Victor Cruz.
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Re: Breaking: School shooting in CT

Postby ajh2298 on Wed Dec 19, 2012 5:03 pm

Victor Cruz is now my favorite football player.
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Re: Breaking: School shooting in CT

Postby ExPatriatePen on Wed Dec 19, 2012 6:05 pm

Does anyone here have an opinion on what should happen to the building that was/is Sandy Hook elementary?

Should it still be used as a grade school, torn down, made into a memorial, or sold asa commercial property?

Just curious what you'd do if you were on the SH school board.
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Re: Breaking: School shooting in CT

Postby MWB on Wed Dec 19, 2012 6:12 pm

It can't be used as a school for the foreseeable future. Maybe they could sell it and have the funds go to building a new school? I don't think a memorial of the school itself would be a good idea.
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Re: Breaking: School shooting in CT

Postby KennyTheKangaroo on Wed Dec 19, 2012 6:23 pm

a park?
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Re: Breaking: School shooting in CT

Postby Rylan on Wed Dec 19, 2012 6:27 pm

It should become a playground.
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Re: Breaking: School shooting in CT

Postby Gaucho on Wed Dec 19, 2012 6:31 pm

A school.
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Re: Breaking: School shooting in CT

Postby Tico Rick on Wed Dec 19, 2012 6:56 pm

That's a tough one. It seems like a pretty modern facility, and I can understand the view of keeping the school as it is to demonstrate that the community can overcome this tragedy. But I can't imagine these kids learning in rooms where their classmates were gunned down. That's just too much.
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