LGP NFL Top 10 QB

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Re: LGP NFL Top 10 QB

Postby shafnutz05 on Mon Dec 31, 2012 11:32 pm

Maybe his critics are.............. :pop: ...................racist?

Spoiler:
:lol:

One of the few times I've been on the right side of the coin :lol:
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Re: LGP NFL Top 10 QB

Postby shmenguin on Mon Dec 31, 2012 11:39 pm

I guess I meant more like the types of throws he was asked to make weren't the most challenging. His legs made him pivotal, yes, but I don't know what it is...arm-wise, I just don't see him as one of the big guys. Eh. Maybe I'm wrong.
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Re: LGP NFL Top 10 QB

Postby Pitt87 on Tue Jan 01, 2013 12:21 am

skullman80 wrote:yeah i dont see the comparison with rg 3 to ben and his rookie year at all to be honest. rg 3 was asked to do alot more than ben was.


In his ROOKIE year? Or his first full year? Ben did some special things in his first year, and won it all in his second year. RG3 does not have the expectations upon him that Ben did, regardless of what you ask him to do to win.
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Re: LGP NFL Top 10 QB

Postby MWB on Tue Jan 01, 2013 12:45 am

Pitt87 wrote:
skullman80 wrote:yeah i dont see the comparison with rg 3 to ben and his rookie year at all to be honest. rg 3 was asked to do alot more than ben was.


In his ROOKIE year? Or his first full year? Ben did some special things in his first year, and won it all in his second year. RG3 does not have the expectations upon him that Ben did, regardless of what you ask him to do to win.


RG3 has tremendous expectations on him. They spent a ton to get him, they haven't had a good quarterback in 20 years or so, and haven't had a good team in just as long. If he fails, the team would be set back another five years or so.
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Re: LGP NFL Top 10 QB

Postby tifosi77 on Tue Jan 01, 2013 2:48 am

Part of the brilliance of the Washington system as mikey287 mentions is that they didn't ask RGIII to be Super Quarterback. They put him in an offense that's got easy reads (he rarely has to go past #2 on his progression) because of the massive support of the running game. In other words, they put him in a somewhat protected environment and he excelled. Luck has been asked to do more as a QB than all but a handful of QB in the league. RGIII had something like 400 attempts, while Luck was airing it out 40-50 times a game some times and ended up well north of 600 attempts.

But ultimately, stats don't mean a whole lot to me. What's clear is that both Luck and RGIII are leaders on their teams, and I think both are going to be incredible to watch over the next decade.
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Re: LGP NFL Top 10 QB

Postby Rylan on Tue Jan 01, 2013 4:40 am

I am going through the splits of both QBs and the finds are interesting. Andrew Luck is a good first drive/ first quarterback. He takes more risks with the ball is capable of taking these risks. His play is very steady. No real fluctuations and statistically is not afraid to put the ball downfield with 83 attempts of 21+ yds. He only completed 21 passes with 8 TDs and 6 INTS. Not bad for a rookie.

Conversely, RG is performing at a higher efficiency rate in the offense he is in. He is told to play more closely to the vest and does not unleash deep throws. Not a knock, he performs his offense exceptionally well. He is conservative and statistically seems to take only the sure things. He attempted only 33 passes of 21+ and completed 15 of those passes. (11 of 16 21-30 yds) for 7 TDs and 0 INTS. Impressive. But the most impressive thing about RGIII is Red Zone Efficiency. 18 TDs 0 Ints and 6 sacks all season inside the Red Zone. That is astounding and impressive. (Add another 11 TDs on the ground and wow, 29 Red Zone TDs)

Honestly, systems have affected these QBs and showed what they can do. I think Andrew Luck using the Redskins playbook puts up better numbers to the former Heisman winner, but I also think RGIII would have excelled in Indianapolis. I think this was a clear cut case of neither side losing!
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Re: LGP NFL Top 10 QB

Postby Idoit40fans on Tue Jan 01, 2013 11:04 am

Well considering the injuries RGIII has already sustained, i'd say the Colts won. If RGIII lasts a decade, i'll be pretty surprised.
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Re: LGP NFL Top 10 QB

Postby Kovy27 on Tue Jan 01, 2013 11:29 am

JS© wrote:
Kovy27 wrote:Bottom 5.

5. Flacco
4. Gabbert
3. Cutler
2. Tebow
1. Sanchez

Just outside: Fitzpatrick and Romo


You left out all of those hacks in Arizona?


Arizona couldn't be a SEC team. LOL.
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Re: LGP NFL Top 10 QB

Postby Kovy27 on Tue Jan 01, 2013 11:30 am

Pitt87 wrote:
skullman80 wrote:yeah i dont see the comparison with rg 3 to ben and his rookie year at all to be honest. rg 3 was asked to do alot more than ben was.


In his ROOKIE year? Or his first full year? Ben did some special things in his first year, and won it all in his second year. RG3 does not have the expectations upon him that Ben did, regardless of what you ask him to do to win.



Three Rookie QBs made the playoffs this year. Luck, RG3, and Wilson. That's pretty impressive while Ben, Eli, Brees are all sitting at home.
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Re: LGP NFL Top 10 QB

Postby Kovy27 on Tue Jan 01, 2013 11:32 am

Froggy wrote:i don't even... dalton isn't a top 10 qb, and flacco and cutler are not bottom 5 qbs. even romo is closer to 10 than he is to bottom 5.


That's your opinion. I think Dalton is a pretty good QB.

I also think Romo is garbage. There is a reason why Tony Romo went undrafted. Oh, that's right...he SUCKS. Not on the level of Sanchez, but he's terrible.
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Re: LGP NFL Top 10 QB

Postby Kovy27 on Tue Jan 01, 2013 11:39 am

Kovy27 wrote:
JS© wrote:
Kovy27 wrote:Bottom 5.

5. Flacco
4. Gabbert
3. Cutler
2. Tebow
1. Sanchez

Just outside: Fitzpatrick and Romo


You left out all of those hacks in Arizona?


Arizona couldn't be a SEC team. LOL.


I did forget Matt Cassell, as well. He's pretty bad.

Actually, let me put all USC QBs in that list.
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Re: LGP NFL Top 10 QB

Postby mikey287 on Tue Jan 01, 2013 12:30 pm

Kovy27 wrote:
Froggy wrote:i don't even... dalton isn't a top 10 qb, and flacco and cutler are not bottom 5 qbs. even romo is closer to 10 than he is to bottom 5.


That's your opinion. I think Dalton is a pretty good QB.

I also think Romo is garbage. There is a reason why Tony Romo went undrafted. Oh, that's right...he SUCKS. Not on the level of Sanchez, but he's terrible.


I like Andy Dalton's release - very quick. Probably not an elite quarterback, but I think he holds his own pretty well.

Romo, like Jay Cutler, just lacks progression. Started with a workable blueprint, but each have progressed very little over their careers. The same mistakes Romo made as a rookie are the same ones he makes now.
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Re: LGP NFL Top 10 QB

Postby Kovy27 on Tue Jan 01, 2013 1:58 pm

mikey287 wrote:
Kovy27 wrote:
Froggy wrote:i don't even... dalton isn't a top 10 qb, and flacco and cutler are not bottom 5 qbs. even romo is closer to 10 than he is to bottom 5.


That's your opinion. I think Dalton is a pretty good QB.

I also think Romo is garbage. There is a reason why Tony Romo went undrafted. Oh, that's right...he SUCKS. Not on the level of Sanchez, but he's terrible.


I like Andy Dalton's release - very quick. Probably not an elite quarterback, but I think he holds his own pretty well.

Romo, like Jay Cutler, just lacks progression. Started with a workable blueprint, but each have progressed very little over their careers. The same mistakes Romo made as a rookie are the same ones he makes now.



Cutler and Romo seem to have some mental issues. Both seem very full of themselves which usually doesn't translate to success in the clutch times...imo.
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Re: LGP NFL Top 10 QB

Postby Idoit40fans on Tue Jan 01, 2013 2:04 pm

I haven't got that from either of them...ever. Actually, that seems to be what they're lacking that the elite QBs have.
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Re: LGP NFL Top 10 QB

Postby Pavel Bure on Tue Jan 01, 2013 2:15 pm

How are you guys talking about RG3 and Luck but leaving Mr. Russel Wilson out of the discussion?
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Re: LGP NFL Top 10 QB

Postby pittsports87 on Tue Jan 01, 2013 2:17 pm

Everyone is saying Cam Newton has regressed, but is that really the case? He may have thrown for 200 less yards than his rookie year and 2 less TD's, but he has thrown for 5 less INT's than his rookie season and his QB rating has gone up 1.7 points. And he won 1 more game than his rookie season. At this rate, the Panthers should be a 10 win team in 3 years!
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Re: LGP NFL Top 10 QB

Postby bhaw on Tue Jan 01, 2013 2:33 pm

I'd say Russell Wilson exceeded expectations by the most of any of the rookie QBs. But I also think he has the best situation for a rookie QB. Awesome defense and a top RB. Receivers aren't great, but they are still good. He had a great year, and I'm not taking anything away from what he did. As I said, if you look at the expectations placed on each of the rookie QBs and what they did, he beat expectations the most by a long shot.

We've gotten to a point in the NFL where it's common to see rookie QBs do well. The test always appears to be year 2 when there's a full year of film on them and time to prepare. Defenses game plan around them. 2nd year is what tends to flush the guys who deserve all the hype from their rookie year from those who are going to be average or just bad NFL QBs.

Congrats to all 3 tho, and I put Luck and RG3 just outside the top 10 for now. Wilson is lower on the list for me. Probably bottom of the 11-20 group or very top of the 21-30 group.
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Re: LGP NFL Top 10 QB

Postby the wicked child on Tue Jan 01, 2013 2:35 pm

Newton had some rough times in the middle of the season, but turned it back around by the end. He has not solely been able to lead his team to victory as much as some of the others, which could just be an indication that the team is a lot worse than those others... I couldn't really say since I haven't seen a second of any of their games.
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Re: LGP NFL Top 10 QB

Postby Idoit40fans on Tue Jan 01, 2013 2:39 pm

Russell Wilson is the definition of game manager in this season. The team as it is needs the QB to keep things going and not screw up. He's done that. He's the least of the 3 rookie QBs. That said, he deserves the ROTY.
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Re: LGP NFL Top 10 QB

Postby Kaizer on Tue Jan 01, 2013 2:49 pm

100.0 QB rating for Wilson, best in franchise history, second in NFL all time and top five amongst qbs this season. 4 game winning drives in final two minutes or overtime and a rookie record. First rookie to go undefeated at home. First rookie to go +16 in TD to INT ratio. First rookie to have 16 straight completions in a game. Led a team to most points in a three game span since 1942. Lead a team to defeat 6 teams with winning records, most in NFL. tied peyton manning's TD passes record for rookies.

he's done a lot more than 'not screw up'.
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Re: LGP NFL Top 10 QB

Postby mikey287 on Tue Jan 01, 2013 2:52 pm

Kovy27 wrote:
mikey287 wrote:
Kovy27 wrote:
Froggy wrote:i don't even... dalton isn't a top 10 qb, and flacco and cutler are not bottom 5 qbs. even romo is closer to 10 than he is to bottom 5.


That's your opinion. I think Dalton is a pretty good QB.

I also think Romo is garbage. There is a reason why Tony Romo went undrafted. Oh, that's right...he SUCKS. Not on the level of Sanchez, but he's terrible.


I like Andy Dalton's release - very quick. Probably not an elite quarterback, but I think he holds his own pretty well.

Romo, like Jay Cutler, just lacks progression. Started with a workable blueprint, but each have progressed very little over their careers. The same mistakes Romo made as a rookie are the same ones he makes now.



Cutler and Romo seem to have some mental issues. Both seem very full of themselves which usually doesn't translate to success in the clutch times...imo.


Cutler is more full of himself than Romo certainly. Always trusts his arm, doesn't trust the game plan so much. Seems to be uncoachable really. Seems to blow off advice even outside the heat of the moment (like from John Elway). Romo may be showing some signs of lackluster fundamental development that coincides with mental development in his younger days. The stage just might be too big for him, though he seems to sincerely want to will his team to victory (unlike Cutler, who is more Marcel Dionne than Mark Messier), he's just unable to mentally or physically.
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Re: LGP NFL Top 10 QB

Postby Idoit40fans on Tue Jan 01, 2013 2:54 pm

Sounds a lot like Tim Tebow last year. Thats the numbers of a QB that has a great defense and doesn't screw up. He has gotten better every game this year, but they are a great team because of the defense first, running game second, quarter back third.
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Re: LGP NFL Top 10 QB

Postby mikey287 on Tue Jan 01, 2013 2:59 pm

Russell Wilson, someone I never paid much attention to to be perfectly honest, caught my eye almost accidentally. I picked a Denver/Seattle preseason game on one do-nothing night and quite literally selected the game at random. I'm looking at this mobile quarterback, running all over the place but delivering passes with pinpoint accuracy and a pretty succinct, accomplished throwing motion and I think when I looked at the clock it said "3rd quarter" ...so I'm thinking to myself, "who is this guy and why is he stuck playing mop up duty at this point?"

So I asked my friend who actually knows about football (I don't really follow it like I used to, I like Colts and quarterbacks really) and said who is this kid? He says Russell Wilson, he's Matt Flynn's backup I think. I said, "not for long...this kid can play!"

So I did a little bit of research on Wilson and he took over the starting role sooner than even I expected, but it was on merit certainly. This is another one of those guys, a hybrid guy that you probably didn't see 10 years ago. Mobility, awareness and accuracy all in one. It's not at the highest elite level, there's obviously still kinks to work out (as in any quarterback basically, young and old) but the first time I saw this guy play, he jumped off the screen, just blew me away...I couldn't believe I didn't know who he was. I guess I just didn't see a Wisconsin game that year...I don't know...
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Re: LGP NFL Top 10 QB

Postby tifosi77 on Tue Jan 01, 2013 3:17 pm

Idoit40fans wrote:I haven't got that from either of them...ever. Actually, that seems to be what they're lacking that the elite QBs have.

I would agree with that.

For whatever reason, they just aren't 'gamers'.
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Re: LGP NFL Top 10 QB

Postby Pitt87 on Tue Jan 01, 2013 10:00 pm

MWB wrote:
Pitt87 wrote:
skullman80 wrote:yeah i dont see the comparison with rg 3 to ben and his rookie year at all to be honest. rg 3 was asked to do alot more than ben was.


In his ROOKIE year? Or his first full year? Ben did some special things in his first year, and won it all in his second year. RG3 does not have the expectations upon him that Ben did, regardless of what you ask him to do to win.


RG3 has tremendous expectations on him. They spent a ton to get him, they haven't had a good quarterback in 20 years or so, and haven't had a good team in just as long. If he fails, the team would be set back another five years or so.


Failure is a bit more than one year's performance. His team hadn't won their division since '99. Very little pressure to win right away. Don't get me wrong, he's performed much better than expected, but comparing the situations is not relevant, IMO.
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