LGP Political Discussion Thread

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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby Kaizer on Mon Dec 31, 2012 9:39 pm

cut salaries in elected federal positions to zero until they work at least 40 hours a week, 50 weeks a year. the rest will take care of itself.
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby Gaucho on Mon Dec 31, 2012 10:30 pm

Let's begin the new year with some encouraging news from a troubled continent:

http://edition.cnn.com/2012/12/31/world/africa/africa-big-five/index.html?hpt=hp_c3
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby tifosi77 on Tue Jan 01, 2013 2:38 am

Alejandro Rojas wrote:...and cutting Defense spending is a joke. Who exactly is going to keep the world's shipping lanes open when the U.S. has a Navy the size of Belize?

The proposed FY2013 budget for the U.S. Navy (including the Marine Corps) is about $160 bn, roughly 60% of which is operational support. (i.e. paying to keep ships at sea and sailors embarked aboard those ships.) Nearly all of what's left over is 'investment' and funds appropriated for future procurement. This is about twice what China spends on its entire military apparatus.... and they still don't possess the ability to project power via 'blue water ops'.

The Navy is scheduled to downsize its personnel slightly, but the Marines are set to go from 202,000 to 182,000 in force strength over the next four years. To me, this is a mistake. The Department of the Navy was, is and ever shall be, the primary tool for military intervention and security. Cut the Army and the Air Force to much smaller numbers.... these forces are the main presence of overseas basing -- I forget the exact number now, but a few years ago I think it was something like 75% of the foreign-based personnel were connected to the Army and Air Force.

End that. There will be no danger to the U.S. Navy succumbing to the mighty Belizeans.
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby doublem on Tue Jan 01, 2013 2:59 am

ah, yes, I remember why I stopped reading this board. Cut EPP fake retirement fund. peace out.
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby tifosi77 on Tue Jan 01, 2013 4:25 am

Senate passes fiscal cliff package by an 89-8 vote. When's the last time any legislation was passed by the Senate with that kind of bipartisan support?

Taxes going up on individual income over $400,000 and couples over $450,000 (itemized deductions capped at $250k/$300k), estate tax going from 35% to 40%, but the exemption will be indexed to rise with inflation. UEI extended for a year. DoD is facing a sequestraion of about $62 bn, roughly 12% of its budget, and about 800,000 civilian employees face mandatory unpaid days off.
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby columbia on Tue Jan 01, 2013 9:18 am

Do the House Republicans have the cajones to not pass the bill?
That should be interesting to see.
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby columbia on Tue Jan 01, 2013 10:03 am

So once they figure out this tax stuff, will we actually see some cuts to the American Petroleum Institute Security Service® budget?
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby King Sid the Great 87 on Tue Jan 01, 2013 10:28 am

tifosi77 wrote:
Alejandro Rojas wrote:...and cutting Defense spending is a joke. Who exactly is going to keep the world's shipping lanes open when the U.S. has a Navy the size of Belize?

The proposed FY2013 budget for the U.S. Navy (including the Marine Corps) is about $160 bn, roughly 60% of which is operational support. (i.e. paying to keep ships at sea and sailors embarked aboard those ships.) Nearly all of what's left over is 'investment' and funds appropriated for future procurement. This is about twice what China spends on its entire military apparatus.... and they still don't possess the ability to project power via 'blue water ops'.

The Navy is scheduled to downsize its personnel slightly, but the Marines are set to go from 202,000 to 182,000 in force strength over the next four years. To me, this is a mistake. The Department of the Navy was, is and ever shall be, the primary tool for military intervention and security. Cut the Army and the Air Force to much smaller numbers.... these forces are the main presence of overseas basing -- I forget the exact number now, but a few years ago I think it was something like 75% of the foreign-based personnel were connected to the Army and Air Force.

End that. There will be no danger to the U.S. Navy succumbing to the mighty Belizeans.


So much for deficit reduction. The media seems to be touting this as a victory when all that was approved is more or less a maintaining of the status quo.

We will all pay one day. The longer it is put off, the more painful it is going to be.
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby Alejandro Rojas on Tue Jan 01, 2013 10:42 am

It is interesting to see two folks who voted against the bill in the Senate.

Marco Rubio
Rand Paul
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby ExPatriatePen on Tue Jan 01, 2013 10:49 am

tifosi77 wrote:The Department of the Navy was, is and ever shall be, the primary tool for military intervention and security.


The Navy is international logistics. A very important component to be sure, but "Primary Tool"? I wouldn't want to have to argue that point with the late General Schwarzkopf.
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby ExPatriatePen on Tue Jan 01, 2013 10:51 am

Alejandro Rojas wrote:It is interesting to see two folks who voted against the bill in the Senate.

Marco Rubio
Rand Paul


Not enough spending cuts... I tend to agree with them, but there's only so far you can drive that mule at one time.
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby ExPatriatePen on Tue Jan 01, 2013 10:59 am

tifosi77 wrote:Senate passes fiscal cliff package by an 89-8 vote. When's the last time any legislation was passed by the Senate with that kind of bipartisan support?

Taxes going up on individual income over $400,000 and couples over $450,000 (itemized deductions capped at $250k/$300k), estate tax going from 35% to 40%, but the exemption will be indexed to rise with inflation. UEI extended for a year. DoD is facing a sequestraion of about $62 bn, roughly 12% of its budget, and about 800,000 civilian employees face mandatory unpaid days off.


Dividend tax rate going up from 15% to 20% for most folks. Not the draconian levels originally feared. :thumb:
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby Alejandro Rojas on Tue Jan 01, 2013 11:25 am

@BenHowe
Congress is gonna push like HELL to end the outta control $900.00 pay raise. They'll get to the $16,000,000,000,000.00 debt later. #fighters


@AriFleischer
According to JCT, last night's deal adds $3.9 trillion to debt over next 10 yrs.
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby ExPatriatePen on Tue Jan 01, 2013 11:54 am

“To be clear, this is a tax increase. In 2013, the top marginal rate, death tax, and taxes on long-term capital gains and dividends will all be higher than in 2012. Comparing tax rates to hypothetical rates that have hardly any support is nothing more than misleading Washington spin,”

- Heritage Action for America

While there's no question HAfA has a bias, I can't say that I disagree with them.

Raising Taxes during an economic downturn is always a dicey proposition, doing so while paying lip service to spending cuts, is inane.

Extending the Unemployment benefits for another year (without any stipulations on eligibility) just shows how focused this administration is on the 47%. (or is it 48 or 49 by now?)
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby blackjack68 on Tue Jan 01, 2013 12:10 pm

So am I supposed to be happy that they have reached a deal on the Fiscal Cliff even though they haven't voted on it? I know the public has short memories, but we were on the edge of the cliff at the end of 2011 and they passed an extension because nobody wanted to do anything going into the presidential election year. Now we've gone over the cliff, even though they will make the deal retroactive. Please remember in November. VOTE OUT ALL INCUMBENTS. Send a message to these ***clowns that their nonsense is unacceptable. If you vote to keep these idiots, it's your fault. I now return you to your day of laying on the couch and watching football. Happy New Year!
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby Alejandro Rojas on Tue Jan 01, 2013 12:20 pm

Bias or not when the percentage is higher in 2013 than in 2012 it is an increase. Math is objective.
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby Factorial on Tue Jan 01, 2013 1:10 pm

Alejandro Rojas wrote:It is interesting to see two folks who voted against the bill in the Senate.

Marco Rubio
Rand Paul


They are both considering 2016 runs so this is to be expected. Funny how even Norquist has given them (and the Tea Party House members) the out but they still fear the wrath of the anti-taxers.
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby ExPatriatePen on Tue Jan 01, 2013 1:14 pm

Factorial wrote:
Alejandro Rojas wrote:It is interesting to see two folks who voted against the bill in the Senate.

Marco Rubio
Rand Paul


They are both considering 2016 runs so this is to be expected. Funny how even Norquist has given them (and the Tea Party House members) the out but they still fear the wrath of the anti-taxers.


It had to be that there was *any* increase in taxes that they were voting against right? it couldn't possibly have been because spending remains largely unchanged...

Come on guys...

Kentucky Sen. Rand Paul said preliminary details of a potential fiscal cliff deal that emerged Monday are a “deal killer” for him because they don’t slash spending


http://www.politico.com/story/2012/12/r ... z2GkGrh7Px
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby Factorial on Tue Jan 01, 2013 1:25 pm

Spending cuts will come with the debt ceiling increase.
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby Factorial on Tue Jan 01, 2013 1:26 pm

ExPatriatePen wrote:
Factorial wrote:
Alejandro Rojas wrote:It is interesting to see two folks who voted against the bill in the Senate.

Marco Rubio
Rand Paul


They are both considering 2016 runs so this is to be expected. Funny how even Norquist has given them (and the Tea Party House members) the out but they still fear the wrath of the anti-taxers.


It had to be that there was *any* increase in taxes that they were voting against right? it couldn't possibly have been because spending remains largely unchanged...

Come on guys...

Kentucky Sen. Rand Paul said preliminary details of a potential fiscal cliff deal that emerged Monday are a “deal killer” for him because they don’t slash spending


http://www.politico.com/story/2012/12/r ... z2GkGrh7Px


And come on EPP, you now believe anything politicians say?
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby Alejandro Rojas on Tue Jan 01, 2013 1:58 pm

Factorial wrote:Spending cuts will come with the debt ceiling increase.


This post was made in the summer of 2011 and is just now appearing on the internet.
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby ExPatriatePen on Tue Jan 01, 2013 2:35 pm

Factorial wrote:
ExPatriatePen wrote:
Factorial wrote:
Alejandro Rojas wrote:It is interesting to see two folks who voted against the bill in the Senate.

Marco Rubio
Rand Paul


They are both considering 2016 runs so this is to be expected. Funny how even Norquist has given them (and the Tea Party House members) the out but they still fear the wrath of the anti-taxers.


It had to be that there was *any* increase in taxes that they were voting against right? it couldn't possibly have been because spending remains largely unchanged...

Come on guys...

Kentucky Sen. Rand Paul said preliminary details of a potential fiscal cliff deal that emerged Monday are a “deal killer” for him because they don’t slash spending


http://www.politico.com/story/2012/12/r ... z2GkGrh7Px


And come on EPP, you now believe anything politicians say?


No, I'm sure he's pandering to the 0.98% of his constituancy that makes over >400K a year... :wink:

Somehow that's believable to liberals, yet the concept of Romeny's 47% is somehow repulsive?
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby bhaw on Tue Jan 01, 2013 2:38 pm

So Cliff's Notes for the politically challenged:

Until I get my raise to $450k ( :lol: ), I will experience no difference in my taxes?
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby ExPatriatePen on Tue Jan 01, 2013 2:41 pm

bhaw wrote:So Cliff's Notes for the politically challenged:

Until I get my raise to $450k (:lol:), I will experience no difference in my taxes?


Is any part of your income derived from Dividends? Are you subject to the AMT?

If the answer is no, probably no change in federal income tax. No comment on the 'stealth tax' though.
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby King Sid the Great 87 on Tue Jan 01, 2013 2:59 pm

bhaw wrote:So Cliff's Notes for the politically challenged:

Until I get my raise to $450k ( :lol: ), I will experience no difference in my taxes?



I've seen nothing about the payroll holiday being extended, so we will all be paying 2% more.

What a gimmick, as are all "temporary" tax policy changes. That's a lot of audacity on the government's part to assume they are clairvoyant enough to know exactly when to implement something temporarily to goose the economy.

In regards to the payroll holiday, it was either a total failure, or it was a success and the already anemic GDP is going to stall with its removal. I guess there is a 3rd option: the government thinks all the uncertainty is going to magically disappear and GDP is about to skyrocket, rendering the payroll holiday no longer necessary.

If this gets passed as-is, it is a total failure on the part of the government.
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