D pairings

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D pairings

Postby Steve Dave on Tue Jan 08, 2013 9:42 pm

With Despres not having to pass through waivers along with the condensed season, do you thing Shero/Blysma will go with these 8 D? I woul like to see a physical/stay at home presence on each pairing:

Orpik/Letang
Martin/Bortuzzo
Niskanen/Engelland
Strait/Lovejoy
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Re: D pairings

Postby mikey287 on Tue Jan 08, 2013 9:51 pm

8 D? Roster size did not expand to 22 like in the Euro leagues...

Asking Bortuzzo, a 23-year-old, with 6 NHL games under his belt to play nearly 20 minutes per night is something the 2004 Penguins would have done. I don't expect him to make the team...

The top 3 look right...Niskanen will either be a 4 or a 5 depending on how camp goes. I'd prefer 5, but only if Despres is fully ready to go...and that's a big "if" and we're going to have to deal with the growing pains...

Soon enough though one of our scum bucket prospects like Strait or Bortuzzo will have to beat out Engelland and put a limit to his sky...the coaching staff has to start pushing for that fairly soon or risk losing them for nothing...which isn't a big deal to me anymore, but if these fringe prospects keep losing their job to a guy who gets his ass hot glued to the bench in the playoffs, we should probably just dump'em all at the first sign of maturity from the "good" prospects...
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Re: D pairings

Postby Jesse on Tue Jan 08, 2013 10:00 pm

I spoke to an AHL blogger tonight who told me Bortuzzo was more ready than Despres at this point. That surprised me. I've seen Despres all year, he looks comfortable (too comfortable?) - Bortuzzo has been so good that you hardly even notice him at this point. It'll be a tight and highly contested battle at the short camp.
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Re: D pairings

Postby Gaucho on Tue Jan 08, 2013 10:05 pm

I just realized that Bortuzzo is way younger than I thought. 23, turns 24 in March.
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Re: D pairings

Postby MRandall25 on Tue Jan 08, 2013 10:16 pm

He looks 30.
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Re: D pairings

Postby Mr. Colby on Tue Jan 08, 2013 10:20 pm

Well Bortuzzo and Strait are both waiver-eligible and would both be taken if we tried to pass them through waivers, so I'd imagine both make the team before Despres, who is struggling mightily in WBS
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Re: D pairings

Postby Mr. Colby on Tue Jan 08, 2013 10:21 pm

I still think Strait, Bortuzzo, or Lovejoy are traded before the 19th
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Re: D pairings

Postby mikey287 on Tue Jan 08, 2013 10:21 pm

Jesse wrote:I spoke to an AHL blogger tonight who told me Bortuzzo was more ready than Despres at this point. That surprised me. I've seen Despres all year, he looks comfortable (too comfortable?) - Bortuzzo has been so good that you hardly even notice him at this point. It'll be a tight and highly contested battle at the short camp.


Good to hear, I hope he makes it. Come to think of it, I didn't notice him any of the WBS games this year...good on him...
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Re: D pairings

Postby mikey287 on Tue Jan 08, 2013 10:23 pm

Mr. Colby wrote:Well Bortuzzo and Strait are both waiver-eligible and would both be taken if we tried to pass them through waivers, so I'd imagine both make the team before Despres, who is struggling mightily in WBS


I doubt they would be claimed...those types get waived every year...if one GM liked the potential of one or something, sure, maybe...but these aren't worth their weight in salt around the league...every organization has at least 1 or 2 of these guys...
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Re: D pairings

Postby Gaucho on Tue Jan 08, 2013 10:29 pm

I sure hope it's not Reese.

Wait, maybe it's Gonchar.

Whatever.
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Re: D pairings

Postby penny lane on Tue Jan 08, 2013 10:35 pm

Gaucho wrote:I sure hope it's not Reese.

Wait, maybe it's Gonchar.

Whatever.


oh my; that would be a special pair~ Sergei & Paul Martin! :wink: :(
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Re: D pairings

Postby pens#1 on Tue Jan 08, 2013 10:40 pm

I thought Lovejoy would have been gone after the playoff series he had last year
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Re: D pairings

Postby Bowser on Tue Jan 08, 2013 10:41 pm

Five days to figure out, who is ready, who is worth keeping, and who is done. I can't imagine how that's enough time for anyone to separate themselves from the pre-camp rankings. Good luck with that.

A ton of well-deserved criticism was thrown at Paul Martin but let's not forget Brooks Orpik and Kris Letang were terrible in the playoffs, Deryk Engelland was his normal slow self and often attached to the bench, Matt Niskanen is a little questionable with that shoulder, and who wants to see Ben Lovejoy after his horrendous performance in the playoffs.

I think that's why we've heard Sergei Gonchar's name attached to the Penguins in the rumor mill and likely will continue to hear his name if the team struggles on defense. I don't think Gonchar is a top four defenseman at even-strength but if he averages 4 power plays per game around 1:30 per shift, that's 6 minutes of his possible 16-18 minutes per game. Before Shero goes that route, I hope he's scouring the league for a legit top four defenseman to pair up with Martin this season and maybe one of the younger guys next season.

Not sure we're going to see Simon Despres get much of a shot early with his struggles in the AHL this season and too many guys need to pass through waivers. I've pegged Despres as one of the guys to be traded for a second line winger or a veteran top four defenseman that would bring something this team needs, a physical presence that is mobile.

Right now I have the depth chart as...
Orpik - Letang
Martin - Engelland
Niskanen - Lovejoy
Strait - Bortuzzo

I figure someone has to be traded or put on waivers as the team would be pretty crazy to go with 8 defensemen on the roster or would they?

This there's only five or six days to practice, team might want to have all 8 up here and practicing together, then after two or three weeks, then make a decision on a cast away.
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Re: D pairings

Postby Steve Dave on Tue Jan 08, 2013 10:42 pm

Sorry, I should have been more detailed. I meant carry 8 D on the roster (23 limit), so 2 goalies, 13 forwards and 8 D, so they don't risk losing any on waivers. Also, Martin/Bortuzzo could easily switch with Niskanen/Engelland (both could play increased minutes this year). So perhaps something like this each game...
Letang 24 min
Orpik 20 min
Martin 23 min
Bortuzzo 16 min
Niskanen 19 min
Engelland 17 min

mikey287 wrote:8 D? Roster size did not expand to 22 like in the Euro leagues...

Asking Bortuzzo, a 23-year-old, with 6 NHL games under his belt to play nearly 20 minutes per night is something the 2004 Penguins would have done. I don't expect him to make the team...

The top 3 look right...Niskanen will either be a 4 or a 5 depending on how camp goes. I'd prefer 5, but only if Despres is fully ready to go...and that's a big "if" and we're going to have to deal with the growing pains...

Soon enough though one of our scum bucket prospects like Strait or Bortuzzo will have to beat out Engelland and put a limit to his sky...the coaching staff has to start pushing for that fairly soon or risk losing them for nothing...which isn't a big deal to me anymore, but if these fringe prospects keep losing their job to a guy who gets his ass hot glued to the bench in the playoffs, we should probably just dump'em all at the first sign of maturity from the "good" prospects...
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Re: D pairings

Postby mikey287 on Tue Jan 08, 2013 10:45 pm

Early on, Bowser, I expect a lot of 22-man, 23-man rosters around the league. Rotate guys into the lineup, get everyone moving quickly, give guys rest. NHL scheduling concerns - could be 3 games in 4 nights at points...got to be careful with conditioning...I also expect to see a lot of goalies splitting those first 10, 12 games: 5 and 7, 6 and 6. Good for teams with two trustworthy guys, teams without that luxury, might be looking at endurance problems down the stretch or groin strains...

Short season is still a marathon and not a sprint. See: 94-95 Pens, started out 12-0-1. Wore down down the stretch. 94-95 Devils, slow pace, defensive team, could conserve energy, started out slow 3-5-2...had a new level late in the season and in the playoffs...still a marathon, must plan accordingly...
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Re: D pairings

Postby Steve Dave on Tue Jan 08, 2013 10:48 pm

That chart looks good except I lost faith in Lovejoy after last year's playoff performance. Perhaps Bortuzzo will beat him out. Would be nice to have another physical presence on D.

Bowser wrote:Five days to figure out, who is ready, who is worth keeping, and who is done. I can't imagine how that's enough time for anyone to separate themselves from the pre-camp rankings. Good luck with that.

A ton of well-deserved criticism was thrown at Paul Martin but let's not forget Brooks Orpik and Kris Letang were terrible in the playoffs, Deryk Engelland was his normal slow self and often attached to the bench, Matt Niskanen is a little questionable with that shoulder, and who wants to see Ben Lovejoy after his horrendous performance in the playoffs.

I think that's why we've heard Sergei Gonchar's name attached to the Penguins in the rumor mill and likely will continue to hear his name if the team struggles on defense. I don't think Gonchar is a top four defenseman at even-strength but if he averages 4 power plays per game around 1:30 per shift, that's 6 minutes of his possible 16-18 minutes per game. Before Shero goes that route, I hope he's scouring the league for a legit top four defenseman to pair up with Martin this season and maybe one of the younger guys next season.

Not sure we're going to see Simon Despres get much of a shot early with his struggles in the AHL this season and too many guys need to pass through waivers. I've pegged Despres as one of the guys to be traded for a second line winger or a veteran top four defenseman that would bring something this team needs, a physical presence that is mobile.

Right now I have the depth chart as...
Orpik - Letang
Martin - Engelland
Niskanen - Lovejoy
Strait - Bortuzzo

I figure someone has to be traded or put on waivers as the team would be pretty crazy to go with 8 defensemen on the roster or would they?

This there's only five or six days to practice, team might want to have all 8 up here and practicing together, then after two or three weeks, then make a decision on a cast away.
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Re: D pairings

Postby Bowser on Tue Jan 08, 2013 11:07 pm

Yeah, that's what I figure Byslma and Shero will do for a start but it isn't what I would do.

I'd go with some youth...

Orpik - Despres
Martin - Letang
Niskanen - Bortuzzo
Extra: Engelland - Strait (for first 2-3 weeks)

Don't really care if Pens lose Lovejoy as the team has plenty of other defensemen in the minors with Joe Morrow, Dylan Reese, Brian Dumoulin, Philip Samuelsson, Alex Grant and Carl Sneep. Then next season, they've got Scott Harrington, Derrick Pouliot, Olli Maatta, and Nick D'Agostino ready to add to that pro depth.
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Re: D pairings

Postby mikey287 on Tue Jan 08, 2013 11:13 pm

I'm not sure that Sneep signed with us, ever, right? He was on the Group II RFA list that the NHL passed out recently...

I'm a big asset manager, but when you start to realize what's out there fully, you really start to understand the value of what you have...here's what I would do, quite simply:

Season-long audition for Engelland, Lovejoy, Strait, Grant, Bortuzzo and Sneep if he's even still with the organization...the winner is the only one that's kept. The rest are flushed. Unless two of them somehow really stand out, but that seems pretty unlikely...the rest can just not be re-signed or qualified, if there's any existing contract, we'll see if we can give it away...

It sounds harsh, but we can't have these guys getting in the way of progress...I'm confident, if push came to shove, I could find an undrafted free agent or ten that is as good as Carl Sneep. No big whoop...
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Re: D pairings

Postby bwink on Tue Jan 08, 2013 11:17 pm

I have to admit I haven't followed the Baby Pens but I swear I heard comments from the Pens staff regarding the benefit of the lock out for Depres' development in the AHL.

How exactly is he struggling in the AHL?
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Re: D pairings

Postby Bowser on Tue Jan 08, 2013 11:25 pm

According to capgeek, Sneep is on the Penguins payroll, $525k in NHL, $67,500 in AHL --> http://www.capgeek.com/player/1704

No big loss with him. Figure guys you listed for auditions will be gone unless they earn a job this year as I think the guys I indicated coming next year should be ready to take their jobs.
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Re: D pairings

Postby BurghersAndDogsSports on Tue Jan 08, 2013 11:42 pm

Bowser wrote:Yeah, that's what I figure Byslma and Shero will do for a start but it isn't what I would do.

I'd go with some youth...

Orpik - Despres
Martin - Letang
Niskanen - Bortuzzo
Extra: Engelland - Strait (for first 2-3 weeks)

Don't really care if Pens lose Lovejoy as the team has plenty of other defensemen in the minors with Joe Morrow, Dylan Reese, Brian Dumoulin, Philip Samuelsson, Alex Grant and Carl Sneep. Then next season, they've got Scott Harrington, Derrick Pouliot, Olli Maatta, and Nick D'Agostino ready to add to that pro depth.


I dont know if I would be confident going in with that line up at all especially with the reports about Despres, but I am not sure what the change is at this point (Strait for Despres?). Just looking at it who goes up against the teams top lines, who is on the pk, if Orpik or Letang are out what do we do?
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Re: D pairings

Postby bwink on Tue Jan 08, 2013 11:47 pm

I have faith in Shero - Things will sort out rather quickly.

What happened to Depres? I thought he was a no-brainer to be on the blueline this season.
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Re: D pairings

Postby BurghersAndDogsSports on Wed Jan 09, 2013 12:01 am

bwink wrote:I have faith in Shero - Things will sort out rather quickly.

What happened to Depres? I thought he was a no-brainer to be on the blueline this season.


for the sake of disclosure (legal terms) I actually have not seen him play. I am strictly basing it on what I have read about the WBS season
and some other random places. It seems in some publications his rep is carrying him (like national pubs) but if you follow WBS and those who
report on it closely he has been extremely inconsistent and even played really poorly at times.
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Re: D pairings

Postby bwink on Wed Jan 09, 2013 12:31 am

That would be a setback for the Pens if he doesn't pan put - i'm sure I wasn't the only one thinking him and Letang would become an awesome pair.
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Re: D pairings

Postby WhoDaresWins on Wed Jan 09, 2013 1:27 am

Bylsma, who knows better than most how much Martin struggled in 2011-12, projects him as a top-four defenseman, and is leaning toward deploying him with Brooks Orpik on the top defense-oriented pairing.

"Depending on how our lineup shakes out in camp and going into the first game, being paired with Orpik is a possibility that we maybe haven't done in the past," Bylsma said.
"We don't have a lot of left[-handed] shots, so to put two left shots together is [potentially problematic] ... but Paul has been a player who has played 28 minutes, 27, 26 minutes. A lot of minutes in a defending situation against good players.

"With a physical player like Brooks, that type of pairing would be a possibility that we could see. And one we'll probably see a little bit of in camp."



Read more: http://www.post-gazette.com/stories/spo ... z2HS8uj2xv
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