Baseball hall of fame adds...

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Re: Baseball hall of fame adds...

Postby joopen on Wed Jan 09, 2013 11:00 pm

Sam's Drunk Dog wrote:If his records are displayed in the HoF I don't really think it matters whether he is in or not.


This
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Re: Baseball hall of fame adds...

Postby MWB on Wed Jan 09, 2013 11:07 pm

joopen wrote:
MWB wrote:
joopen wrote:Well considering one of the qualifications for entry is and always has been "integrity", I could see how they would want to exclude those who are deemed ineligible to participate in the MLB.


Yet Ty Cobb is in.


Is Ty Cobb ineligible to participate in MLB?


One of the qualifications is "integrity," and Cobb failed that on many levels. Arbitrary application.
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Re: Baseball hall of fame adds...

Postby Rylan on Wed Jan 09, 2013 11:10 pm

joopen wrote:
MWB wrote:
joopen wrote:
MWB wrote:
joopen wrote:Where is the accountability on LGP? First we are stealing hot sauce from Chipolte and now we don't want rules to exist because we don't like them


What is the point of this rule? The betting on baseball rule for MLB makes sense. This rule for keeping people out of the HoF doesn't make sense and serves no purpose.


Well considering one of the qualifications for entry is and always has been "integrity", I could see how they would want to exclude those who are deemed ineligible to participate in the MLB.


Yet Ty Cobb is in.


Is Ty Cobb ineligible to participate in MLB?


I don't think the let corpses into MLB anymore. Though Jamie Moyer pushes that rule a bit.
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Re: Baseball hall of fame adds...

Postby ExPatriatePen on Wed Jan 09, 2013 11:11 pm

MWB wrote:
ExPatriatePen wrote:
MWB wrote:
joopen wrote:Where is the accountability on LGP? First we are stealing hot sauce from Chipolte and now we don't want rules to exist because we don't like them


What is the point of this rule? The betting on baseball rule for MLB makes sense. This rule for keeping people out of the HoF doesn't make sense and serves no purpose.


It's highly possible, probable even, that if Rose didn't purposely throw games when he was a manager, he at least shaved points.

I repect the way Rose played (Charlie Hustle), but IMHO he does not belong in the HoF.


The betting has nothing to do with his on field performance. That's what merits HoF consideration. Put the betting stuff on the plaque.

It's not the betting itself, it's the fact that as a manager he had control over the outcome of games (ie. Point shaving).

How is point shaving not something that would immediately disqualify you in *any* sport.
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Re: Baseball hall of fame adds...

Postby MWB on Wed Jan 09, 2013 11:12 pm

It does disqualify you from the sport. And no one is arguing that Rose shouldn't be banned from baseball. He is and should be. However, he should be in the Hall of Fame for his play.
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Re: Baseball hall of fame adds...

Postby Rylan on Wed Jan 09, 2013 11:13 pm

Is Pete Rose one of the best ball players of all time? yes or no?
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Re: Baseball hall of fame adds...

Postby joopen on Wed Jan 09, 2013 11:13 pm

MWB wrote:
joopen wrote:
MWB wrote:
joopen wrote:Well considering one of the qualifications for entry is and always has been "integrity", I could see how they would want to exclude those who are deemed ineligible to participate in the MLB.


Yet Ty Cobb is in.


Is Ty Cobb ineligible to participate in MLB?


One of the qualifications is "integrity," and Cobb failed that on many levels. Arbitrary application.


It is their rules not yours. Cobb is not ineligible. Rose is. End of story.
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Re: Baseball hall of fame adds...

Postby ExPatriatePen on Wed Jan 09, 2013 11:14 pm

Well, we'l have to agree to disagree... in my mind, anyone who's been banned from playing (not just suspended), should never be admitted to something called a "Hall of Fame".
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Re: Baseball hall of fame adds...

Postby MWB on Wed Jan 09, 2013 11:15 pm

joopen wrote:
MWB wrote:
joopen wrote:
MWB wrote:
joopen wrote:Well considering one of the qualifications for entry is and always has been "integrity", I could see how they would want to exclude those who are deemed ineligible to participate in the MLB.


Yet Ty Cobb is in.


Is Ty Cobb ineligible to participate in MLB?


One of the qualifications is "integrity," and Cobb failed that on many levels. Arbitrary application.


It is their rules not yours. Cobb is not ineligible. Rose is. End of story.


And no one should dare disagree with the sacred (yet arbitrary) rules of the Hall!
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Re: Baseball hall of fame adds...

Postby Rylan on Wed Jan 09, 2013 11:15 pm

And yet Pete Rose has transcended the Hall of Fame by having a good many people finding the Hall of Fame to be nothing but a political sham.
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Re: Baseball hall of fame adds...

Postby MWB on Wed Jan 09, 2013 11:16 pm

Rylan wrote:Is Pete Rose one of the best ball players of all time? yes or no?


How high on the list are you talking?
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Re: Baseball hall of fame adds...

Postby joopen on Wed Jan 09, 2013 11:16 pm

You can disagree all you want. Pete Rose is the only one to blame for him not being in the Hall
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Re: Baseball hall of fame adds...

Postby Rylan on Wed Jan 09, 2013 11:16 pm

Does it matter? He is probably top 100.
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Re: Baseball hall of fame adds...

Postby MWB on Wed Jan 09, 2013 11:19 pm

joopen wrote:You can disagree all you want. Pete Rose is the only one to blame for him not being in the Hall


Of course he is, but that doesn't make it any less foolish in my mind. It's a museum that theoretically celebrates the best players through the years. By keeping players out it does itself and the fans a disservice.
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Re: Baseball hall of fame adds...

Postby joopen on Wed Jan 09, 2013 11:20 pm

MWB wrote:
joopen wrote:You can disagree all you want. Pete Rose is the only one to blame for him not being in the Hall


Of course he is, but that doesn't make it any less foolish in my mind. It's a museum that theoretically celebrates the best players through the years. By keeping players out it does itself and the fans a disservice.

His records are acknowledged and honored
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Re: Baseball hall of fame adds...

Postby Rylan on Wed Jan 09, 2013 11:21 pm

MWB wrote:
joopen wrote:You can disagree all you want. Pete Rose is the only one to blame for him not being in the Hall


Of course he is, but that doesn't make it any less foolish in my mind. It's a museum that theoretically celebrates the best players through the years. By keeping players out it does itself and the fans a disservice.


I like the point about it being a museum about the history of baseball. The best players need to be in, regardless of silly posturing and politicizing.
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Re: Baseball hall of fame adds...

Postby MRandall25 on Wed Jan 09, 2013 11:24 pm

One could argue they don't even let the "best" players in anymore. Hall of Fame has become "The Hall of Very Good". Once again, politics.
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Re: Baseball hall of fame adds...

Postby MWB on Wed Jan 09, 2013 11:27 pm

Joopen, this seems to be all about the rule for you. So if they decided to change that rule 5 years from now, you wouldn't care if he was admitted, right? Or am I misunderstanding?
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Re: Baseball hall of fame adds...

Postby canaan on Wed Jan 09, 2013 11:29 pm

Look up Bowie Kuhn in the baseball hall of fame and get back to me about integrity being the basis for their entrance to the hall. Its hypocritical grandstanding by old men who have a revisionist history of the good ole days of professional baseball
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Re: Baseball hall of fame adds...

Postby MWB on Wed Jan 09, 2013 11:29 pm

MRandall25 wrote:One could argue they don't even let the "best" players in anymore. Hall of Fame has become "The Hall of Very Good". Once again, politics.


Examples?

If they put Jack Morris in, I would put him in that category. Biggio... not sure. He never really stuck out as an exceptional player to me, but he's got some great numbers.
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Re: Baseball hall of fame adds...

Postby joopen on Wed Jan 09, 2013 11:31 pm

MWB wrote:Joopen, this seems to be all about the rule for you. So if they decided to change that rule 5 years from now, you wouldn't care if he was admitted, right? Or am I misunderstanding?

If he is ever deemed eligible he should be voted in.

I just hate that people refuse to make Rose be accountable for his own problems. He isn't in the hall because he thought he was above the rules. That's his problem not the hall's
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Re: Baseball hall of fame adds...

Postby ulf on Wed Jan 09, 2013 11:33 pm

biggio has 3,000 hits. should have been in today if the BBWAA didn't have their infatuation with first ballots, even though every other player with 3,000 was a first ballot HOFer
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Re: Baseball hall of fame adds...

Postby columbia on Wed Jan 09, 2013 11:47 pm

Side note:
Johnny Bench is the only first ballot catcher.

Carry on...
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Re: Baseball hall of fame adds...

Postby JS© on Wed Jan 09, 2013 11:54 pm

http://www.grantland.com/blog/the-trian ... ll-of-fame

Good article on how messed up the voting system for the BBHoF is.
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Re: Baseball hall of fame adds...

Postby DudeMan2766 on Thu Jan 10, 2013 2:04 am

Um, Pete Rose is in the Hall of Fame, ladies and germs



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