Bad news for the Pens

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Re: Bad news for the Pens

Postby Kharlamov on Wed Jan 09, 2013 2:33 pm

The Current One wrote:Martin reminds me of Lidstrom. Similar style, build, etc. The only difference is, Lidstrom knew how to play defense, and Martin doesn't. The reason he was "successful" in NJ was their trapping, clutch-and-grab style. With the Pens he has been exposed for what he is: a soft defenseman that cannot defend one on one, and is easily pushed around in front of the net.


Now, when you say Lidstrom...do you mean, not Lidstrom?
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Re: Bad news for the Pens

Postby shmenguin on Wed Jan 09, 2013 2:51 pm

Rylan wrote:There was a time last season for about a month stretch where it could be argued that Martin was the best blue liner on the ice.


i'm a registered martin basher, but i agree with this statement.
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Re: Bad news for the Pens

Postby meow on Wed Jan 09, 2013 2:58 pm

shmenguin wrote:
Rylan wrote:There was a time last season for about a month stretch where it could be argued that Martin was the best blue liner on the ice.


i'm a registered martin basher, but i agree with this statement.

If I remember correctly, it was when all the blue liners were healthy and he was playing his role and within himself.
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Re: Bad news for the Pens

Postby MRandall25 on Wed Jan 09, 2013 2:59 pm

I thought he played his best when Michalek was injured, but I could also be misremembering things.
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Re: Bad news for the Pens

Postby Pitt87 on Wed Jan 09, 2013 3:07 pm

The Current One wrote:Martin reminds me of Lidstrom. Similar style, build, etc. The only difference is, Lidstrom knew how to play defense, and Martin doesn't. The reason he was "successful" in NJ was their trapping, clutch-and-grab style. With the Pens he has been exposed for what he is: a soft defenseman that cannot defend one on one, and is easily pushed around in front of the net.


So you're saying when Paul Martin plays positional defense and can defend the puck carrier because his linemate is in position and clearing the net traffic, he looks like Nicklas Lidstrom? But when you ask a positional defender with good puck skills to play a physical game away from the puck he doesn't perform as well?

Yeah. I can agree with this. :roll:
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Re: Bad news for the Pens

Postby Lt. Dish on Wed Jan 09, 2013 3:08 pm

pittsoccer33 wrote:Maybe he has a better season? Like he did his last year in New Jersey when he was tearing it up before his broken wrist kept him off Team USA? And his fairly solid first season in Pittsburgh? Or is that not possible?


Thank you, pittsoccer. I maintain that I'm not worried about him.
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Re: Bad news for the Pens

Postby Froggy on Wed Jan 09, 2013 3:45 pm

The problem was when Martin was actually good, letang was playing like butt, so the defense was still maligned, and no one noticed it wasn't Martin this time.
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Re: Bad news for the Pens

Postby Azkar on Wed Jan 09, 2013 4:40 pm

Froggy wrote:The problem was when Martin was actually good, letang was playing like butt, so the defense was still maligned, and no one noticed it wasn't Martin this time.


LEAVE LETANG ALONE!
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Re: Bad news for the Pens

Postby She'sTheFastest on Thu Jan 10, 2013 7:27 am

westside wrote:I love lamp


Do you really love the lamp or are you just looking around the room and saying what you see?
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Re: Bad news for the Pens

Postby littlemoonboot on Thu Jan 10, 2013 9:05 am

Image
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Re: Bad news for the Pens

Postby IanMoran on Thu Jan 10, 2013 10:42 am

I don't understand the Martin hate. I thought the entire defense was extremely inconsistent, Martin included. I think it got to the point where after a goal against people started looking to see if Martin was on the ice just so they could yell "UGHHH MARTINNN"
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Re: Bad news for the Pens

Postby shmenguin on Thu Jan 10, 2013 10:45 am

well everyone in the organization who was interviewed about martin admitted that he had a bad year. so there's that.
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Re: Bad news for the Pens

Postby IanMoran on Thu Jan 10, 2013 10:48 am

shmenguin wrote:well everyone in the organization who was interviewed about martin admitted that he had a bad year. so there's that.

Yea, because it became an accepted story. I find it funny to see Orpiks quotes on it tbh.
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Re: Bad news for the Pens

Postby Luckybreak on Thu Jan 10, 2013 10:54 am

IanMoran wrote:
shmenguin wrote:well everyone in the organization who was interviewed about martin admitted that he had a bad year. so there's that.

Yea, because it became an accepted story. I find it funny to see Orpiks quotes on it tbh.


Even if you are a Martin fan surely you could see he had a very bad year overall? Or did he himself 'accept the story' in interviews:

Q: Ray has been pretty up front about conversations you and he had about the season you‘re looking to have this year. What is the one thing you need to do better than last year?

A: In general, for most parts of the game, be better at both ends of the rink. Defensively, offensively — moving the puck, and in general, I just need to be better.
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Re: Bad news for the Pens

Postby shmenguin on Thu Jan 10, 2013 11:00 am

pffft...that's just group think, luckybreak.
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Re: Bad news for the Pens

Postby Idoit40fans on Thu Jan 10, 2013 11:07 am

Luckybreak wrote:
IanMoran wrote:
shmenguin wrote:well everyone in the organization who was interviewed about martin admitted that he had a bad year. so there's that.

Yea, because it became an accepted story. I find it funny to see Orpiks quotes on it tbh.


Even if you are a Martin fan surely you could see he had a very bad year overall? Or did he himself 'accept the story' in interviews:

Q: Ray has been pretty up front about conversations you and he had about the season you‘re looking to have this year. What is the one thing you need to do better than last year?

A: In general, for most parts of the game, be better at both ends of the rink. Defensively, offensively — moving the puck, and in general, I just need to be better.


Nope, just going with the concensus. The rest of the team was making him look bad.
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Re: Bad news for the Pens

Postby IanMoran on Thu Jan 10, 2013 11:08 am

Luckybreak wrote:
IanMoran wrote:
shmenguin wrote:well everyone in the organization who was interviewed about martin admitted that he had a bad year. so there's that.

Yea, because it became an accepted story. I find it funny to see Orpiks quotes on it tbh.


Even if you are a Martin fan surely you could see he had a very bad year overall? Or did he himself 'accept the story' in interviews:

Q: Ray has been pretty up front about conversations you and he had about the season you‘re looking to have this year. What is the one thing you need to do better than last year?

A: In general, for most parts of the game, be better at both ends of the rink. Defensively, offensively — moving the puck, and in general, I just need to be better.

Yes, he played poorly, but pretty much all of the d did.

Questions were basically "so you really played poorly, really terrible, what do you think?" Sounds just like a politically correct response... something Crosby would probably say if he went in a funk.

I think some of it was, a lot of Martin's blunders were pretty obvious to all. Sometimes Orpik being out of position every shift can be overlooked
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Re: Bad news for the Pens

Postby Idoit40fans on Thu Jan 10, 2013 11:11 am

No, question was not basically, but literally "What is the one thing you need to do better than last year?". And that was his response.

This is like the people defending Lance Armstrong as not having cheated.
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Re: Bad news for the Pens

Postby Luckybreak on Thu Jan 10, 2013 11:13 am

Idoit40fans wrote:Nope, just going with the concensus. The rest of the team was making him look bad.


At least he's in sync with the team off ice, now for that darned system...
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Re: Bad news for the Pens

Postby IanMoran on Thu Jan 10, 2013 11:14 am

Idoit40fans wrote:No, question was not basically, but literally "What is the one thing you need to do better than last year?". And that was his response.
'
In general those were the questions asked when got some of the quotes about Martin with others. Every answer just seemed politically correct.

A player saying they need to improve on everything sounds like a politically correct answer.

Anyways the main point of my argument, is pretty much everyone on D sucked for extended periods of time.
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Re: Bad news for the Pens

Postby Luckybreak on Thu Jan 10, 2013 11:29 am

IanMoran wrote:
Idoit40fans wrote:No, question was not basically, but literally "What is the one thing you need to do better than last year?". And that was his response.
'
In general those were the questions asked when got some of the quotes about Martin with others. Every answer just seemed politically correct.

A player saying they need to improve on everything sounds like a politically correct answer.

Anyways the main point of my argument, is pretty much everyone on D sucked for extended periods of time.


Politically correct or not, I read Martin's response as 'every aspect of my game sucked for extended periods of time'
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Re: Bad news for the Pens

Postby shmenguin on Thu Jan 10, 2013 11:39 am

it's just as common (if not more) for teammates and coaches to stick up for a player rather than jump on board with an "accepted story" - especially for a player who has already reached the peak of his development.
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Re: Bad news for the Pens

Postby Luckybreak on Thu Jan 10, 2013 12:00 pm

shmenguin wrote:it's just as common (if not more) for teammates and coaches to stick up for a player rather than jump on board with an "accepted story" - especially for a player who has already reached the peak of his development.


They already did the politically correct answers during Martin's struggles, i.e. "we have confidence and faith, know how well he can play etc etc". This was just honesty, and not even brutal honesty!
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Re: Bad news for the Pens

Postby IanMoran on Thu Jan 10, 2013 12:05 pm

I just read it as them answering pointed questions as pc as they can. But agree to disagree, I think this will just keep going in circles tbh
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Re: Bad news for the Pens

Postby Idoit40fans on Thu Jan 10, 2013 12:08 pm

IanMoran wrote:But agree to disagree, I think this will just keep going in circles tbh


Hahaha, I was just about to bow out of this conversation.
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