D pairings

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Re: D pairings

Postby bwink on Thu Jan 10, 2013 9:35 pm

I really hate to bring baseball into this - But if they go with the D lineup that Dejan quoted it would be like the Pirates starting lefties at 3B and SS. You don't do that! Do you??

Either we're getting bad reporting or the pens are just trying to get us to forget about the lockout real quick - Maybe a little of both.

The great thing is we'll get to see what they come up with real quick. Can't wait!!
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Re: D pairings

Postby Idoit40fans on Thu Jan 10, 2013 9:37 pm

Gaucho wrote:
mikey287 wrote:I find it odd that a team has decided their defensive pairings for opening night before training camp


I find it odd that people believe they did.


Its not like they're going to get any useful information in the next week to change them, unless someone is hurt, no reason not to decide now.
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Re: D pairings

Postby bwink on Thu Jan 10, 2013 9:51 pm

Idoit40fans wrote:
Gaucho wrote:
mikey287 wrote:I find it odd that a team has decided their defensive pairings for opening night before training camp


I find it odd that people believe they did.


Its not like they're going to get any useful information in the next week to change them, unless someone is hurt, no reason not to decide now.


There's no way that decision can be made without seeing the players on the ice even if it's a short camp.

So you're telling me that the only players that they have seen play in the last month or so have so unimpressed them that none of them are even being considered for the starting 6?

I find that odd or alarming especially with how Lovejoy and Engelland fared against the Flyers.
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Re: D pairings

Postby Idoit40fans on Thu Jan 10, 2013 9:57 pm

When are they going to get to evaluate anyone? drills? 30 minute scrimmages? They know the 7 guys they're going with.
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Re: D pairings

Postby bwink on Thu Jan 10, 2013 10:06 pm

Idoit40fans wrote:When are they going to get to evaluate anyone? drills? 30 minute scrimmages? They know the 7 guys they're going with.


I agree to an extent - I think they have an idea of which 8 guys have a shot but there's no way that they already decided who's starting game 1 or the first few games.

You'll be able to see who's ready to play and who has been skating on his own in a practice setting. I think that you might be selling the guys who have been playing a little short.
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Re: D pairings

Postby MRandall25 on Thu Jan 10, 2013 10:11 pm

You guys realize it's what they'll be starting the season with, not necessarily what they'll be ending with, right?
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Re: D pairings

Postby The U on Thu Jan 10, 2013 10:31 pm

MRandall25 wrote:You guys realize it's what they'll be starting the season with, not necessarily what they'll be ending with, right?


Yes...but they also felt as if this exact same group of D were good enough to win them a Cup last postseason. They went into the playoffs knowing Lovejoy and Engelland were going to have to play. They didnt add any Dmen at the deadline when it appeared obvious to everyone that they needed to.
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Re: D pairings

Postby helmespc on Thu Jan 10, 2013 11:30 pm

The U wrote:Yes...but they also felt as if this exact same group of D were good enough to win them a Cup last postseason. They went into the playoffs knowing Lovejoy and Engelland were going to have to play. They didnt add any Dmen at the deadline when it appeared obvious to everyone that they needed to.


Its not like were a bunch of teams falling over themselves to trade top 4 D.
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Re: D pairings

Postby RPKJr429 on Thu Jan 10, 2013 11:36 pm

I can't imagine there are many teams out there with a surplus of top 4 D men that are willing to trade with what the pens have to offer. With that in mind, we should all feel pretty lucky that Niskanen has figured into the plan as he as so far.
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Re: D pairings

Postby Idoit40fans on Fri Jan 11, 2013 8:57 am

The U wrote:
MRandall25 wrote:You guys realize it's what they'll be starting the season with, not necessarily what they'll be ending with, right?


Yes...but they also felt as if this exact same group of D were good enough to win them a Cup last postseason. They went into the playoffs knowing Lovejoy and Engelland were going to have to play. They didnt add any Dmen at the deadline when it appeared obvious to everyone that they needed to.


The Penguins were on a 12 game winning streak going through the deadline. At the deadline, it was not obvious to everyone that they needed to add D-men. There were those of us that thought the defense was inadequate, but the team simply got cold at the wrong time going into the playoffs...also what some of us were predicting as the streak progressed. The team isn't good enough to win it all as currently constructed, but it wasn't "obvious to everyone" that they needed to add at the deadline last year.
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Re: D pairings

Postby BurghersAndDogsSports on Fri Jan 11, 2013 9:52 am

Idoit40fans wrote:
The U wrote:
MRandall25 wrote:You guys realize it's what they'll be starting the season with, not necessarily what they'll be ending with, right?


Yes...but they also felt as if this exact same group of D were good enough to win them a Cup last postseason. They went into the playoffs knowing Lovejoy and Engelland were going to have to play. They didnt add any Dmen at the deadline when it appeared obvious to everyone that they needed to.


The Penguins were on a 12 game winning streak going through the deadline. At the deadline, it was not obvious to everyone that they needed to add D-men. There were those of us that thought the defense was inadequate, but the team simply got cold at the wrong time going into the playoffs...also what some of us were predicting as the streak progressed. The team isn't good enough to win it all as currently constructed, but it wasn't "obvious to everyone" that they needed to add at the deadline last year.


It definitely wasnt obvious to everyone, its funny how the season progressed. Everyone points to the win streak as proof of something, but the win streak was in large part due to Fleury playing out of his mind. Fast forward we blame Fleury for the playoff loss. If that is the case it points to our overall defense as the issue.

My point is, it was pretty obvious throughout the year, even the win streak we would have a hard time in the playoffs. Like football, it was like teams had "ball control". The biggest turning point I saw was when teams decided to play less passive against us.

They realized to go quick break out and skate or long cross passes against us. We had no answers down the stretch even the games we won. In the playoffs it was magnified because we played the same team over and over again. They made constant adjustments to ours (like when we stopped the long break out pass they started chipping it out wide off the glass). Eventually Disco Dan ran out of answers and to me that points to talent and mostly why Philly would get stronger once the game progressed.

I agree I doubt these will be our pairings come April 15th, but I also am not sure how many defensive players are available at the deadline. With our chips (very young prospects) we are looking at trading with the 4 or 5 teams way out of the playoffs, and its going to have to be an impeding UFA or close. The Kings won as an 8th seed last year, the league is more even in a sense. The top 20 teams at the deadline are probably not going to be looking to dump, especially since most are going to want that playoff ticket money.
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Re: D pairings

Postby thepittman on Fri Jan 11, 2013 10:02 am

We have a good D-core, that Flyers series was a fluke
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Re: D pairings

Postby DelPen on Fri Jan 11, 2013 11:04 am

Does anyone not see starting with 8 defensemen considering anyone we waive will get claimed, even Lovejoy, and we are super thin up front and barely have 12 NHL forwards as it is (but those 12 are all more than solid).

13-8-2 for the team makeup. Full roster until Shero sees what we and other teams need and cap space is fine.

Martin, Orpik, Letang, Niskanen, Engellend, Bortuzzo, Strait and Lovejoy will be the 8, bottom 4 battling for 2 spots.
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Re: D pairings

Postby Idoit40fans on Fri Jan 11, 2013 11:12 am

I would support that, and it makes sense. No idea who the bottom pair would be.
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Re: D pairings

Postby mikey287 on Fri Jan 11, 2013 11:12 am

DelPen wrote:anyone we waive will get claimed


1) Boy, we think highly of our fringe prospects...
2) We have a ton of them.
3) If they aren't part of the plan, who cares if they get claimed?
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Re: D pairings

Postby Gaucho on Fri Jan 11, 2013 11:15 am

I expect a wild deadline, not only as far as the Pens are concerned.
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Re: D pairings

Postby Idoit40fans on Fri Jan 11, 2013 11:18 am

Don't know what to expect at the deadline. We'll have to see how many teams are out of it. I could easily see a boring deadline.
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Re: D pairings

Postby joopen on Fri Jan 11, 2013 11:21 am

mikey287 wrote:
DelPen wrote:anyone we waive will get claimed


1) Boy, we think highly of our fringe prospects...
2) We have a ton of them.
3) If they aren't part of the plan, who cares if they get claimed?


The thing about #3 is that there is literally no forward depth that we can keep up here. Tangradi and Bennett are both better served playing a bigger role in WB/S than watching from the press box. So there are virtually zero options for depth at forward.
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Re: D pairings

Postby joopen on Fri Jan 11, 2013 11:22 am

Idoit40fans wrote:Don't know what to expect at the deadline. We'll have to see how many teams are out of it. I could easily see a boring deadline.


You might see some teams try to shed salary via trade deadline rather than buyout. That could be another factor.
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Re: D pairings

Postby penny lane on Fri Jan 11, 2013 11:23 am

thepittman wrote:We have a good D-core, that Flyers series was a fluke


except that it occured during the season too ... with the flyers. :D
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Re: D pairings

Postby mikey287 on Fri Jan 11, 2013 11:33 am

joopen wrote:
mikey287 wrote:
DelPen wrote:anyone we waive will get claimed


1) Boy, we think highly of our fringe prospects...
2) We have a ton of them.
3) If they aren't part of the plan, who cares if they get claimed?


The thing about #3 is that there is literally no forward depth that we can keep up here. Tangradi and Bennett are both better served playing a bigger role in WB/S than watching from the press box. So there are virtually zero options for depth at forward.


For the record, I think we probably will carry 8. And use Lovejoy or Engelland as a spare winger if we need one. But, I think we'd be free to waive these guys without recourse really. Claimed or not, it's just not a big concern, short term or long.
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Re: D pairings

Postby joopen on Fri Jan 11, 2013 11:45 am

mikey287 wrote:
joopen wrote:
mikey287 wrote:
DelPen wrote:anyone we waive will get claimed


1) Boy, we think highly of our fringe prospects...
2) We have a ton of them.
3) If they aren't part of the plan, who cares if they get claimed?


The thing about #3 is that there is literally no forward depth that we can keep up here. Tangradi and Bennett are both better served playing a bigger role in WB/S than watching from the press box. So there are virtually zero options for depth at forward.


For the record, I think we probably will carry 8. And use Lovejoy or Engelland as a spare winger if we need one. But, I think we'd be free to waive these guys without recourse really. Claimed or not, it's just not a big concern, short term or long.


Agreed that they are not going to change the course of the franchise if they were to get claimed. I just think the organizational depth at both positions (or lack thereof) forces them to keep 8 like you said.
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Re: D pairings

Postby offsides on Fri Jan 11, 2013 12:01 pm

thepittman wrote:We have a good D-core, that Flyers series was a fluke


Sure hope you're right, but I just don't see it. Besides the flyer nonsense, our D was horrible the last month of the season. I still think this season's success will be determined by our D and goal tending. To me, the offense is more than adequate.
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Re: D pairings

Postby pcm on Fri Jan 11, 2013 12:22 pm

Asset management is a critical aspect of a GM's role. This is the single biggest reason that I've not been in favor of Shero's defensemen drafting philosophy...it creates a logjam in the development pipeline, and that is going to force us to lose assets for little/nothing.

However, if a couple of those d were forwards, we'd be stoked at our depth and future prospects.
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Re: D pairings

Postby Gaucho on Fri Jan 11, 2013 12:25 pm

I was sort of happy with the return on Whitney and Gogo. Of course, getting Niskanen as a throw-in further confounded said logjam.
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