D pairings

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Re: D pairings

Postby Idoit40fans on Fri Jan 11, 2013 1:11 pm

To have a logjam at a position, you have to be good at that position.
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Re: D pairings

Postby helmespc on Fri Jan 11, 2013 1:14 pm

columbia wrote:I don't know if it's possible to win a Stanley Cup with either of them on the ice, so maybe it just doesn't matter.


People said the same thing about Rob Scuderi....
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Re: D pairings

Postby Idoit40fans on Fri Jan 11, 2013 1:16 pm

I don't think they did.
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Re: D pairings

Postby Gaucho on Fri Jan 11, 2013 1:17 pm

So what you're saying is we're not drafting enough defensemen?
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Re: D pairings

Postby shmenguin on Fri Jan 11, 2013 1:26 pm

helmespc wrote:
columbia wrote:I don't know if it's possible to win a Stanley Cup with either of them on the ice, so maybe it just doesn't matter.


People said the same thing about Rob Scuderi....


Not in 2009 they didn't.
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Re: D pairings

Postby The Current One on Fri Jan 11, 2013 1:28 pm

Lovejoy stinks, and Engelland is a #7 defenseman on a good team. I like his toughness, but his defense is lacking. I think the Pens would be better served by playing Bortuzzo, and hope he can become a shutdown defenseman. And, give Despres another shot. Both have size, and it's well documented that Despres game is better suited for the NHL.
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Re: D pairings

Postby Idoit40fans on Fri Jan 11, 2013 1:31 pm

Where is it documented that Despres game is better suited for the NHL? He's NHL ready, but I don't see him as better suited for the NHL.
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Re: D pairings

Postby Gaucho on Fri Jan 11, 2013 1:31 pm

And I guess only a fool would consider the Pens a good team.
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Re: D pairings

Postby thepittman on Fri Jan 11, 2013 1:35 pm

offsides wrote:
thepittman wrote:We have a good D-core, that Flyers series was a fluke


Sure hope you're right, but I just don't see it. Besides the flyer nonsense, our D was horrible the last month of the season. I still think this season's success will be determined by our D and goal tending. To me, the offense is more than adequate.

I'm not into the guessing game, to me it's wait and see what happens. Bad positioning by defenders was to blame for a lot of issue. Lets see if we have it fixed.
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Re: D pairings

Postby helmespc on Fri Jan 11, 2013 2:01 pm

shmenguin wrote:
helmespc wrote:
columbia wrote:I don't know if it's possible to win a Stanley Cup with either of them on the ice, so maybe it just doesn't matter.


People said the same thing about Rob Scuderi....


Not in 2009 they didn't.


It's kind of irrelevent whether they said it in 2007 or 2009, hence the term "never". I'm not saying that its an entirely relevant comparison, but people did have the same attitude toward Scuderi when he was at relatively the same point in his career.
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Re: D pairings

Postby The Current One on Fri Jan 11, 2013 2:01 pm

Gaucho wrote:And I guess only a fool would consider the Pens a good team.


Yes, they are a good team. But a true Stanley Cup contender? Not with Lovejoy and Engelland playing on a regular basis. Compare the Pens defense to teams such as the Rangers and Bruins, and it's not even close.
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Re: D pairings

Postby Gaucho on Fri Jan 11, 2013 2:06 pm

The Current One wrote:
Gaucho wrote:And I guess only a fool would consider the Pens a good team.


Yes, they are a good team. But a true Stanley Cup contender? Not with Lovejoy and Engelland playing on a regular basis. Compare the Pens defense to teams such as the Rangers and Bruins, and it's not even close.


You said Engelland was a #7 dman on a good team. I only disagreed with that notion. I agree that Lovejoy and Engelland is far from being an ideal 3rd pairing.
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Re: D pairings

Postby shmenguin on Fri Jan 11, 2013 2:18 pm

helmespc wrote:
shmenguin wrote:
helmespc wrote:
columbia wrote:I don't know if it's possible to win a Stanley Cup with either of them on the ice, so maybe it just doesn't matter.


People said the same thing about Rob Scuderi....


Not in 2009 they didn't.


It's kind of irrelevent whether they said it in 2007 or 2009, hence the term "never". I'm not saying that its an entirely relevant comparison, but people did have the same attitude toward Scuderi when he was at relatively the same point in his career.


fair enough. but we're in "win now" mode as opposed to rebuild mode when scuderi was green and sucky.
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Re: D pairings

Postby helmespc on Fri Jan 11, 2013 3:16 pm

fair enough. but we're in "win now" mode as opposed to rebuild mode when scuderi was green and sucky.


Mostly agreed, although I'm kind of in the "screw 2013" boat, so I'm not all that excited about selling the farm to win this year, if it means weakening next year's team.
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Re: D pairings

Postby shmenguin on Fri Jan 11, 2013 3:18 pm

helmespc wrote:
fair enough. but we're in "win now" mode as opposed to rebuild mode when scuderi was green and sucky.


Mostly agreed, although I'm kind of in the "screw 2013" boat, so I'm not all that excited about selling the farm to win this year, if it means weakening next year's team.


yeah, i guess i'm in the boat going the other way. as it stands, i don't really like the staal trade because it hurts our chances this year. i would have rather kept the same roster as last year and made 1 last run with that group.
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Re: D pairings

Postby RisslingsMissingTeeth on Fri Jan 11, 2013 3:37 pm

I guess everything will clear up next week but I think we're kidding ourselves if we don't think that the D will include Lovejoy and Engy opening night. They know the system and they're vets.
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Re: D pairings

Postby RxBandit66 on Fri Jan 11, 2013 4:18 pm

RisslingsMissingTeeth wrote:I guess everything will clear up next week but I think we're kidding ourselves if we don't think that the D will include Lovejoy and Engy opening night. They know the system and they're vets.


To start the season, sure they will. Engelland is a good bottom-pairing guy. Lovejoy will be on a shorter leash because of his poor showing last season, and Bortuzzo may push him out eventually. Even if everyone is healthy, they still may acquire someone before the playoffs.
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Re: D pairings

Postby penmyst on Fri Jan 11, 2013 5:26 pm

Idoit40fans wrote:To have a logjam at a position, you have to be good at that position.


Will somebody tell Pirates fans this?
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Re: D pairings

Postby penmyst on Fri Jan 11, 2013 5:27 pm

RisslingsMissingTeeth wrote:I guess everything will clear up next week but I think we're kidding ourselves if we don't think that the D will include Lovejoy and Engy opening night. They know the system and they're vets.


I agree with that.

Only surprise might be a Bortuzzo muscling his way in. But if that is bottom pairing stuff, I'm not all that concerned about it ATM.
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Re: D pairings

Postby Idoit40fans on Fri Jan 11, 2013 6:33 pm

penmyst wrote:
Idoit40fans wrote:To have a logjam at a position, you have to be good at that position.


Will somebody tell Pirates fans this?


Who thinks they have a glut of talent at any position?
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Re: D pairings

Postby pugilist13 on Fri Jan 11, 2013 7:50 pm

mikey287 wrote:Martin did some of his best work in New Jersey paired with a somewhat sluggish, physical defensive defenseman in Bryce Salvador (a career third pairing guy), for reference. Conversely, it could be the style of play the Penguins employ that is causing his hiccups, not his partner.

Exactly. I still think it's the Bylsma D pinch at all costs puck posession system. Thats when Martin has had major problems. Keep it simple stupid.
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Re: D pairings

Postby Idoit40fans on Fri Jan 11, 2013 7:52 pm

They were doing that before martin was here. Why did they get him?
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Re: D pairings

Postby mikey287 on Fri Jan 11, 2013 7:54 pm

@pugilist - Yeah, Martin handled the puck a lot in New Jersey, but he's not really the aggressive guy that our defense seems to have. It takes a second for it click for him, not because he's slow or dumb or anything, but just because that's not ingrained in his head that that's the right decision.

@I40 - Poor pro scouting is the first thing that came to mind.
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Re: D pairings

Postby penmyst on Sat Jan 12, 2013 1:08 am

Idoit40fans wrote:
Who thinks they have a glut of talent at any position?


The PR for the team. Every year we got to hear about how so-and-so or whatshisname or whogivesash*t are all so great, how are we going to find chances to get them all in the lineup? We gots too many <first basemen> <outfielders> <hot dog vendors> ! It's going to be tough getting them all playing time dontchano?

And it must work, because the Bucco fans keep throwing their money at the team.
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Re: D pairings

Postby Gaucho on Sat Jan 12, 2013 10:51 am

Dave Molinari ‏@MolinariPG
Penguins have nine waivers-eligible defensemen, and that doesn't include Simon Despres. Logjam on their blue line has to break in next week.

I'm assuming Reese is the 9th?

Letang, Orpik, Martin, Niskanen, Engelland, Lovejoy, Bortuzzo, Strait, Reese.
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