Is "Grit" Overrated?

Forum for Pittsburgh Penguins-related messages.

Moderators: Three Stars, dagny, pfim, netwolf

Re: Is "Grit" Overrated?

Postby RxBandit66 on Fri Jan 11, 2013 4:26 pm

Idoit40fans wrote:
sil wrote:The better question to me is...Is it quantifiable?


Yes. under W and L.


:thumb:
RxBandit66
AHL All-Star
AHL All-Star
 
Posts: 5,813
Joined: Mon Feb 05, 2007 10:49 am
Location: Kittanning

Re: Is "Grit" Overrated?

Postby Mr. Colby on Fri Jan 11, 2013 4:49 pm

No
Mr. Colby
AHL Hall of Famer
AHL Hall of Famer
 
Posts: 8,317
Joined: Sun Dec 09, 2007 1:33 pm
Location: Born and Raised in Kent Manderville

Re: Is "Grit" Overrated?

Postby penmyst on Fri Jan 11, 2013 5:13 pm

Grit isn't overrated as much as it is misunderstood.

It is an intangible. You can't coach it. Guys either have a lot, a little, or somewhere in between.

It is a lot like intelligence. (Not merely general, but in the realm of sports often related to your particular sport. "Hockey smarts" or "Football smarts", these are terms you have heard before)

If you only valued it directly, THAT is where you make the mistake.

When you see it as a MULTIPLIER of most other skills/abilities/talent---- THEN it is properly understood.

A talented player with high grit or intelligence, is better than a talented player with low grit or intelligence.

If you are assessing a player on his overall skill/ability/talent---- ur doin it rite.

If you are assessing a player on his grit or intelligence---- ur doin it rong.
penmyst
ECHL'er
ECHL'er
 
Posts: 1,369
Joined: Wed Feb 21, 2007 9:30 pm
Location: Pittsburgh, PA

Re: Is "Grit" Overrated?

Postby jprolley on Fri Jan 11, 2013 5:40 pm

for don cherry, it's more important than actual skill
jprolley
NHL Healthy Scratch
NHL Healthy Scratch
 
Posts: 10,442
Joined: Sat Dec 19, 2009 12:23 pm
Location: Youngstown, Ohio

Re: Is "Grit" Overrated?

Postby mikey287 on Fri Jan 11, 2013 6:31 pm

Just a side note, Scuderi wasn't all that great with the puck. I thought he had two settings A) Didn't get it out hard enough B) Icing

I think it was him who cost me a cell phone in I think game 4 vs. Detroit when he turned the puck over to Darren Helm which led directly to a goal. I got an unrelated text message at the same second the goal went in and my phone took the brunt of the disagreement with Scuderi's puck decision...
mikey287
NHL Fourth Liner
NHL Fourth Liner
 
Posts: 16,573
Joined: Sun Jan 29, 2006 6:40 pm
Location: Philadelphia, PA - @MichaelFarkasHF

Re: Is "Grit" Overrated?

Postby pcm on Fri Jan 11, 2013 6:43 pm

mikey287 wrote:Just a side note, Scuderi wasn't all that great with the puck.


And so started the organization's fascination with "puck-moving defensemen". Unfortunately, now we can't clear a crease...
pcm
AHL All-Star
AHL All-Star
 
Posts: 5,939
Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2006 10:39 am
Location: mountains

Re: Is "Grit" Overrated?

Postby shmenguin on Fri Jan 11, 2013 6:54 pm

In fairness, his turnover to helm wasn't really typical scuderi play - at least not that version of scuderi. It flubbed off of his stick. In the scudichar days, it seems like he'd make those plays intentionally, though.
shmenguin
NHL Fourth Liner
NHL Fourth Liner
 
Posts: 22,205
Joined: Mon Nov 06, 2006 11:34 pm

Re: Is "Grit" Overrated?

Postby DropEmJayBird on Fri Jan 11, 2013 6:55 pm

pcm wrote:
mikey287 wrote:Just a side note, Scuderi wasn't all that great with the puck.


And so started the organization's fascination with "puck-moving defensemen". Unfortunately, now we can't clear a crease...


Yes, I think our fascination for puck moving defensemen and first pass defensemen was born directly from the pair of detroit series. Also from both philly series those years, and for the most part our style of play. Force a turnover, control the puck down low, and score from it. Philly's defense couldn't get the puck out of their own end, and the Penguins ate them alive.

The Red Wings spent lots of time on offense when Gill and Scuds were on the ice because neither of them could move the puck.

I don't know if it's right or not, the other team is going to have some talented players who can get the puck deep on you regardless if you have Bobby Orr playing defense (Although if the Penguins could aquire Kimmo Timmonen, that might help). I certainly think we've seen a drop off play in our own end... although come to think of it - we don't cycle like we did back then either. Then again some of these puck moving guys arent up yet, so who knows.
DropEmJayBird
AHL'er
AHL'er
 
Posts: 4,498
Joined: Tue Nov 11, 2008 9:38 pm

Re: Is "Grit" Overrated?

Postby mikey287 on Fri Jan 11, 2013 7:01 pm

A lot of things that we're coming to realize as we talk it out are failures by the coaching staff. Bylsma lost control of the team late in the year it seemed. Tough to regain command, maybe the extended break will help freshen things up. There wasn't much of a system in place late last year after Crosby returned. When you don't have a coach's game, things go haywire. Look at our games late in the year and that forgettable series vs. Philadelphia...total chaos, 10-9 games, undisciplined, the whole nine...inmates ran the prison, hell broke lose.
mikey287
NHL Fourth Liner
NHL Fourth Liner
 
Posts: 16,573
Joined: Sun Jan 29, 2006 6:40 pm
Location: Philadelphia, PA - @MichaelFarkasHF

Re: Is "Grit" Overrated?

Postby pugilist13 on Fri Jan 11, 2013 7:36 pm

No, not in the least. You dont win cups with 18 figure skaters. You need a mix of skill, speed, and grit. Thats the way it's always been, and always will be.
pugilist13
ECHL'er
ECHL'er
 
Posts: 1,258
Joined: Wed Nov 10, 2010 10:51 pm
Location: your back yard

Re: Is "Grit" Overrated?

Postby meow on Fri Jan 11, 2013 8:32 pm

Mmm, love me some grit
meow
AHL All-Star
AHL All-Star
 
Posts: 6,817
Joined: Sat Feb 24, 2007 4:02 pm
Location: ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Re: Is "Grit" Overrated?

Postby mikey287 on Fri Jan 11, 2013 8:35 pm

meow wrote:Mmm, love me some grit


I like grits too. How do you cook your grits? Do you like them regular, creamy or al dente?
mikey287
NHL Fourth Liner
NHL Fourth Liner
 
Posts: 16,573
Joined: Sun Jan 29, 2006 6:40 pm
Location: Philadelphia, PA - @MichaelFarkasHF

Re: Is "Grit" Overrated?

Postby shafnutz05 on Fri Jan 11, 2013 8:36 pm

One thing that struck me during last year's playoffs is that the Penguins are very short on intelligence. I wonder how our team IQ shapes up against other teams?
shafnutz05
NHL Third Liner
NHL Third Liner
 
Posts: 55,427
Joined: Tue Jun 02, 2009 5:10 pm
Location: Amish Country

Re: Is "Grit" Overrated?

Postby columbia on Fri Jan 11, 2013 8:37 pm

mikey287 wrote:
meow wrote:Mmm, love me some grit


I like grits too. How do you cook your grits? Do you like them regular, creamy or al dente?


Never use water. Whole milk is preferred (and even a bit of half and half if possible).
NEVER use anything but the stone ground variety that take about 45 minutes to cook.

Slather with butter and healthy dose of salt.
columbia
NHL Third Liner
NHL Third Liner
 
Posts: 45,340
Joined: Wed Feb 20, 2008 12:13 am

Re: Is "Grit" Overrated?

Postby Gaucho on Fri Jan 11, 2013 8:38 pm

Didn't realize they played Jeopardy between periods, too.
Gaucho
NHL Third Liner
NHL Third Liner
 
Posts: 40,521
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2006 10:22 am
Location: Jay Landsman's cookie jar

Re: Is "Grit" Overrated?

Postby mikey287 on Fri Jan 11, 2013 8:42 pm

shafnutz05 wrote:One thing that struck me during last year's playoffs is that the Penguins are very short on intelligence. I wonder how our team IQ shapes up against other teams?


Ours is pretty top heavy. We have many static producers and drones. Kunitz, Dupuis are basically static producers. Kennedy is a drone, Cooke now that he's been neutered is basically a drone. Engelland is nothing special, Niskanen is generally clueless. Some of our smarter players aren't being used correctly (Martin) or don't have the skills to make a difference (Adams). We aren't a Mensa meeting compared to the rest of the league, in my opinion...
mikey287
NHL Fourth Liner
NHL Fourth Liner
 
Posts: 16,573
Joined: Sun Jan 29, 2006 6:40 pm
Location: Philadelphia, PA - @MichaelFarkasHF

Re: Is "Grit" Overrated?

Postby Lt. Dish on Fri Jan 11, 2013 8:42 pm

columbia wrote:
mikey287 wrote:
meow wrote:Mmm, love me some grit


I like grits too. How do you cook your grits? Do you like them regular, creamy or al dente?


Never use water. Whole milk is preferred (and even a bit of half and half if possible).
NEVER use anything but the stone ground variety that take about 45 minutes to cook.

Slather with butter and healthy dose of salt.


FTW:
Image
Lt. Dish
AHL Hall of Famer
AHL Hall of Famer
 
Posts: 9,472
Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2012 10:07 pm
Location: Following Geno on Instagram

Re: Is "Grit" Overrated?

Postby mikey287 on Fri Jan 11, 2013 8:43 pm

No self-respecting Southener uses instant grits...
mikey287
NHL Fourth Liner
NHL Fourth Liner
 
Posts: 16,573
Joined: Sun Jan 29, 2006 6:40 pm
Location: Philadelphia, PA - @MichaelFarkasHF

Re: Is "Grit" Overrated?

Postby Lt. Dish on Fri Jan 11, 2013 8:46 pm

mikey287 wrote:No self-respecting Southener uses instant grits...


Hey, mikey, where are you in Flyerland? I forget if you mentioned it before.

It's just so nice knowing that you're not aloooooone..... :( :D
Last edited by Lt. Dish on Fri Jan 11, 2013 8:52 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Lt. Dish
AHL Hall of Famer
AHL Hall of Famer
 
Posts: 9,472
Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2012 10:07 pm
Location: Following Geno on Instagram

Re: Is "Grit" Overrated?

Postby shafnutz05 on Fri Jan 11, 2013 8:46 pm

mikey287 wrote:
shafnutz05 wrote:One thing that struck me during last year's playoffs is that the Penguins are very short on intelligence. I wonder how our team IQ shapes up against other teams?


Ours is pretty top heavy. We have many static producers and drones. Kunitz, Dupuis are basically static producers. Kennedy is a drone, Cooke now that he's been neutered is basically a drone. Engelland is nothing special, Niskanen is generally clueless. Some of our smarter players aren't being used correctly (Martin) or don't have the skills to make a difference (Adams). We aren't a Mensa meeting compared to the rest of the league, in my opinion...


:)

That's a pretty solid analysis. The top-heavy description is pretty accurate, which makes the lapses in leadership like what occurred last year all the more damning.
shafnutz05
NHL Third Liner
NHL Third Liner
 
Posts: 55,427
Joined: Tue Jun 02, 2009 5:10 pm
Location: Amish Country

Re: Is "Grit" Overrated?

Postby mikey287 on Fri Jan 11, 2013 8:59 pm

Lt. Dish wrote:
mikey287 wrote:No self-respecting Southener uses instant grits...


Hey, mikey, where are you in Flyerland? I forget if you mentioned it before.


Ya know, Lt. Dish, I get asked this a lot and I don't know...I don't know where I live...when I first moved here (from North Jersey) I thought I didn't know because I had just moved down here and although I was born in Philadelphia, I didn't really grow up here...

But I've come to realize that I don't know because no one does...even lifelong Philadelphia dwellers.

"What neighborhood are you in?"
- I say my cross streets
"Oh! That's right by...uh...hmm...it's near...hmph..."

And then I get the list: Bella Vista, Queen Village, Southwark, Italian Market, Washington Square, "Center City/South Philly border"

I think I've determined it to be called "Hawthorne" which I'm not sure is terribly well known or even recognized by anyone...

In terms of recognizables that you may or may not know...I'm a few blocks from the Kimmel Center, I'm about 2.5 miles north of the sports complexes, close to where Broad would meet South St. in what I'll call Center City for now...

Sorry for the long answer... :oops:
mikey287
NHL Fourth Liner
NHL Fourth Liner
 
Posts: 16,573
Joined: Sun Jan 29, 2006 6:40 pm
Location: Philadelphia, PA - @MichaelFarkasHF

Re: Is "Grit" Overrated?

Postby shafnutz05 on Fri Jan 11, 2013 9:29 pm

mikey, Hawthorne sounds right. I am extremely jealous that you are within walking distance of the Italian Market!
shafnutz05
NHL Third Liner
NHL Third Liner
 
Posts: 55,427
Joined: Tue Jun 02, 2009 5:10 pm
Location: Amish Country

Re: Is "Grit" Overrated?

Postby columbia on Fri Jan 11, 2013 9:33 pm

Formerly of 10th and Federal. :pop:
columbia
NHL Third Liner
NHL Third Liner
 
Posts: 45,340
Joined: Wed Feb 20, 2008 12:13 am

Re: Is "Grit" Overrated?

Postby shmenguin on Fri Jan 11, 2013 9:47 pm

I think our real world IQ is more in question than our hockey IQ. Our players acted like children in that series. Even the ones with hockey smarts.
shmenguin
NHL Fourth Liner
NHL Fourth Liner
 
Posts: 22,205
Joined: Mon Nov 06, 2006 11:34 pm

Re: Is "Grit" Overrated?

Postby DesertPenguin on Fri Jan 11, 2013 9:51 pm

I don't think the league is going back to the trap necessarily, but it is going back to clutch and grab. In that case, you want more grit, not less grit. Less interference penalties means more contact, and you need the players to fight through that contact and give it to other players.

Jagr might not be a gritty defender, but he is extremely strong on the puck, and can score with a guy on his back. He was great in the clutch and grab days for that reason.

You need to have skill, but a skilled team without grit is the kind that has a great regular season, only to wilt in the playoffs when the whistles really go away. See The Washington Capitals.
DesertPenguin
ECHL'er
ECHL'er
 
Posts: 645
Joined: Mon Jun 01, 2009 7:32 pm
Location: Z's Old House

PreviousNext

Return to Pittsburgh Penguins

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: skullman80 and 10 guests

e-mail