Is "Grit" Overrated?

[RxBandit66]

The better question to me is...Is it quantifiable?

Yes. under W and L.

[Mr. Colby]

No

[penmyst]

Grit isn't overrated as much as it is misunderstood.

It is an intangible. You can't coach it. Guys either have a lot, a little, or somewhere in between.

It is a lot like intelligence. (Not merely general, but in the realm of sports often related to your particular sport. "Hockey smarts" or "Football smarts", these are terms you have heard before)

If you only valued it directly, THAT is where you make the mistake.

When you see it as a MULTIPLIER of most other skills/abilities/talent---- THEN it is properly understood.

A talented player with high grit or intelligence, is better than a talented player with low grit or intelligence.

If you are assessing a player on his overall skill/ability/talent---- ur doin it rite.

If you are assessing a player on his grit or intelligence---- ur doin it rong.

[jprolley]

for don cherry, it's more important than actual skill

[mikey287]

Just a side note, Scuderi wasn't all that great with the puck. I thought he had two settings A) Didn't get it out hard enough B) Icing

I think it was him who cost me a cell phone in I think game 4 vs. Detroit when he turned the puck over to Darren Helm which led directly to a goal. I got an unrelated text message at the same second the goal went in and my phone took the brunt of the disagreement with Scuderi's puck decision...

[pcm]

Just a side note, Scuderi wasn't all that great with the puck.

And so started the organization's fascination with "puck-moving defensemen". Unfortunately, now we can't clear a crease...

[shmenguin]

In fairness, his turnover to helm wasn't really typical scuderi play - at least not that version of scuderi. It flubbed off of his stick. In the scudichar days, it seems like he'd make those plays intentionally, though.

[DropEmJayBird]

Just a side note, Scuderi wasn't all that great with the puck.

And so started the organization's fascination with "puck-moving defensemen". Unfortunately, now we can't clear a crease...

Yes, I think our fascination for puck moving defensemen and first pass defensemen was born directly from the pair of detroit series. Also from both philly series those years, and for the most part our style of play. Force a turnover, control the puck down low, and score from it. Philly's defense couldn't get the puck out of their own end, and the Penguins ate them alive.

The Red Wings spent lots of time on offense when Gill and Scuds were on the ice because neither of them could move the puck.

I don't know if it's right or not, the other team is going to have some talented players who can get the puck deep on you regardless if you have Bobby Orr playing defense (Although if the Penguins could aquire Kimmo Timmonen, that might help). I certainly think we've seen a drop off play in our own end... although come to think of it - we don't cycle like we did back then either. Then again some of these puck moving guys arent up yet, so who knows.

[mikey287]

A lot of things that we're coming to realize as we talk it out are failures by the coaching staff. Bylsma lost control of the team late in the year it seemed. Tough to regain command, maybe the extended break will help freshen things up. There wasn't much of a system in place late last year after Crosby returned. When you don't have a coach's game, things go haywire. Look at our games late in the year and that forgettable series vs. Philadelphia...total chaos, 10-9 games, undisciplined, the whole nine...inmates ran the prison, hell broke lose.

[pugilist13]

No, not in the least. You dont win cups with 18 figure skaters. You need a mix of skill, speed, and grit. Thats the way it's always been, and always will be.

[meow]

Mmm, love me some grit

[mikey287]

Mmm, love me some grit

I like grits too. How do you cook your grits? Do you like them regular, creamy or al dente?

[shafnutz05]

One thing that struck me during last year's playoffs is that the Penguins are very short on intelligence. I wonder how our team IQ shapes up against other teams?

[columbia]

Mmm, love me some grit

I like grits too. How do you cook your grits? Do you like them regular, creamy or al dente?

Never use water. Whole milk is preferred (and even a bit of half and half if possible).
NEVER use anything but the stone ground variety that take about 45 minutes to cook.

Slather with butter and healthy dose of salt.

[Gaucho]

Didn't realize they played Jeopardy between periods, too.

[mikey287]

One thing that struck me during last year's playoffs is that the Penguins are very short on intelligence. I wonder how our team IQ shapes up against other teams?

Ours is pretty top heavy. We have many static producers and drones. Kunitz, Dupuis are basically static producers. Kennedy is a drone, Cooke now that he's been neutered is basically a drone. Engelland is nothing special, Niskanen is generally clueless. Some of our smarter players aren't being used correctly (Martin) or don't have the skills to make a difference (Adams). We aren't a Mensa meeting compared to the rest of the league, in my opinion...

[Lt. Dish]

Mmm, love me some grit

I like grits too. How do you cook your grits? Do you like them regular, creamy or al dente?

Never use water. Whole milk is preferred (and even a bit of half and half if possible).
NEVER use anything but the stone ground variety that take about 45 minutes to cook.

Slather with butter and healthy dose of salt.

FTW:

[mikey287]

No self-respecting Southener uses instant grits...

[Lt. Dish]

No self-respecting Southener uses instant grits...

Hey, mikey, where are you in Flyerland? I forget if you mentioned it before.

It's just so nice knowing that you're not aloooooone.....

[shafnutz05]

One thing that struck me during last year's playoffs is that the Penguins are very short on intelligence. I wonder how our team IQ shapes up against other teams?

Ours is pretty top heavy. We have many static producers and drones. Kunitz, Dupuis are basically static producers. Kennedy is a drone, Cooke now that he's been neutered is basically a drone. Engelland is nothing special, Niskanen is generally clueless. Some of our smarter players aren't being used correctly (Martin) or don't have the skills to make a difference (Adams). We aren't a Mensa meeting compared to the rest of the league, in my opinion...

That's a pretty solid analysis. The top-heavy description is pretty accurate, which makes the lapses in leadership like what occurred last year all the more damning.

[mikey287]

No self-respecting Southener uses instant grits...

Hey, mikey, where are you in Flyerland? I forget if you mentioned it before.

Ya know, Lt. Dish, I get asked this a lot and I don't know...I don't know where I live...when I first moved here (from North Jersey) I thought I didn't know because I had just moved down here and although I was born in Philadelphia, I didn't really grow up here...

But I've come to realize that I don't know because no one does...even lifelong Philadelphia dwellers.

"What neighborhood are you in?"
- I say my cross streets
"Oh! That's right by...uh...hmm...it's near...hmph..."

And then I get the list: Bella Vista, Queen Village, Southwark, Italian Market, Washington Square, "Center City/South Philly border"

I think I've determined it to be called "Hawthorne" which I'm not sure is terribly well known or even recognized by anyone...

In terms of recognizables that you may or may not know...I'm a few blocks from the Kimmel Center, I'm about 2.5 miles north of the sports complexes, close to where Broad would meet South St. in what I'll call Center City for now...

Sorry for the long answer...

[shafnutz05]

mikey, Hawthorne sounds right. I am extremely jealous that you are within walking distance of the Italian Market!

[columbia]

Formerly of 10th and Federal.

[shmenguin]

I think our real world IQ is more in question than our hockey IQ. Our players acted like children in that series. Even the ones with hockey smarts.

[DesertPenguin]

I don't think the league is going back to the trap necessarily, but it is going back to clutch and grab. In that case, you want more grit, not less grit. Less interference penalties means more contact, and you need the players to fight through that contact and give it to other players.

Jagr might not be a gritty defender, but he is extremely strong on the puck, and can score with a guy on his back. He was great in the clutch and grab days for that reason.

You need to have skill, but a skilled team without grit is the kind that has a great regular season, only to wilt in the playoffs when the whistles really go away. See The Washington Capitals.