Are we forgetting why we lost vs Flyers last year?

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Are we forgetting why we lost vs Flyers last year?

Postby moondart on Mon Jan 14, 2013 11:06 pm

Ok...I've had it up to here on how the Pens are "the" favorite to win the Stanley Cup. Yes, we have a lot of talent, but there are a lot of holes in this team that need fixed in order to win the cup.

1) If Orpik and Martin are our "shutdown" D pairing.....no chance at a Stanley Cup.

2) If MAF plays like he did the last 3 yrs in the playoffs...no Stanley Cup (I think he'll bounce back).

3) If Geno "floats" in the playoffs like he does every year (except 2009)...no Stanley Cup.

4) If Sid gets hurt again, no Stanley Cup.

Some of these are obvious, but I'm tired of hearing the "local" and "national" media play up the Pens just because we have Sid, Geno, Neal, etc.
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Re: Are we forgetting why we lost vs Flyers last year?

Postby pressure=9Pa on Mon Jan 14, 2013 11:21 pm

1. Correct
2. MAF had a decent series v. the Lightning in 2011, but point taken. He's had just as many good series as bad series.
3. I'm not worried about him floating, I want to see if he's disciplined enough to not follow minor mistakes with brainless penalties.
4. Correct
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Re: Are we forgetting why we lost vs Flyers last year?

Postby MRandall25 on Mon Jan 14, 2013 11:23 pm

How can you say an Orpik-Martin shutdown pairing won't work if you haven't seen it on the ice yet?
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Re: Are we forgetting why we lost vs Flyers last year?

Postby npv708 on Mon Jan 14, 2013 11:31 pm

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Re: Are we forgetting why we lost vs Flyers last year?

Postby Mongoose87 on Mon Jan 14, 2013 11:36 pm

I forgot that fun prohibition was on.
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Re: Are we forgetting why we lost vs Flyers last year?

Postby moondart on Mon Jan 14, 2013 11:41 pm

MRandall25 wrote:How can you say an Orpik-Martin shutdown pairing won't work if you haven't seen it on the ice yet?


Yea...we have never seen them play...how could one make that conclusion...

Martin couldn't stop a Beach ball from rolling in a cave..
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Re: Are we forgetting why we lost vs Flyers last year?

Postby MRandall25 on Mon Jan 14, 2013 11:43 pm

:face:

... aaaand I'm out.
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Re: Are we forgetting why we lost vs Flyers last year?

Postby Rylan on Mon Jan 14, 2013 11:46 pm

I liked Pens related during the lockout
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Re: Are we forgetting why we lost vs Flyers last year?

Postby FreeCandy44 on Mon Jan 14, 2013 11:50 pm

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Re: Are we forgetting why we lost vs Flyers last year?

Postby FreeCandy44 on Mon Jan 14, 2013 11:51 pm

npv708 wrote:

Classic episode....oh wait im sorry.









AHH THE PENGUINS CANT BEAT THE FLYERS!!!!!!!
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Re: Are we forgetting why we lost vs Flyers last year?

Postby Lt. Dish on Tue Jan 15, 2013 12:02 am

FreeCandy44 wrote:AHH THE PENGUINS CANT BEAT THE FLYERS!!!!!!!


LOL! I know, right, FC? :lol:

We can, we have, we will again. Is the world perfect? Nah. But it's not like we're experiencing another Spectrum Jinx period.
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Re: Are we forgetting why we lost vs Flyers last year?

Postby largegarlic on Tue Jan 15, 2013 12:02 am

I kind of agree with the original post that the people are too quick to pick the Pens as Cup favorites (though this seems to be happening more in the national media than locally). If I had to wager right now, I'd probably pick the Rangers (made it to the conference finals and improved on paper) or the Kings (bringing back pretty much the same team and maybe the lockout mitigates the Cup hangover).

However, I can see why casual observers/pundits like the Pens' chances--two best players in the world, a dark horse Norris candidate (Letang), a pretty good goalie tandem (notice I said tandem), and a winger who can score 40 goals. The more nuanced optimistic view for those of us still traumatized by the loss to the Flyers is that the Pens have lots of cap space, assets to trade, and really only a couple pieces they need to add (another solid 2rd/3rd line winger and another top-4 d-man). Furthermore, there's the possibility (maybe only a slight one, but a possibility nonetheless) that these holes will be filled internally by younger players (Tangradi, Bennett, Despres, Niskanen, etc.) being able to step up into bigger roles.
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Re: Are we forgetting why we lost vs Flyers last year?

Postby FreeCandy44 on Tue Jan 15, 2013 12:05 am

We should forfeit this season.
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Re: Are we forgetting why we lost vs Flyers last year?

Postby ILikeTurtles on Tue Jan 15, 2013 12:49 am

Who are we tanking for, MacKinnon or Jones?
Spoiler:
dumb question, Jones, we are limited with d prospects
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Re: Are we forgetting why we lost vs Flyers last year?

Postby Bioshock on Tue Jan 15, 2013 1:29 am

I'm just gonna go cry myself to sleep.
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Re: Are we forgetting why we lost vs Flyers last year?

Postby farnham16 on Tue Jan 15, 2013 1:32 am

Yes the first post of the season claiming Malkin is a floater. This place never disappoints. I look forward to more Geno bashing after his first game where he doesn't register a point.
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Re: Are we forgetting why we lost vs Flyers last year?

Postby BurghersAndDogsSports on Tue Jan 15, 2013 1:39 am

largegarlic wrote:I kind of agree with the original post that the people are too quick to pick the Pens as Cup favorites (though this seems to be happening more in the national media than locally). If I had to wager right now, I'd probably pick the Rangers (made it to the conference finals and improved on paper) or the Kings (bringing back pretty much the same team and maybe the lockout mitigates the Cup hangover).

However, I can see why casual observers/pundits like the Pens' chances--two best players in the world, a dark horse Norris candidate (Letang), a pretty good goalie tandem (notice I said tandem), and a winger who can score 40 goals. The more nuanced optimistic view for those of us still traumatized by the loss to the Flyers is that the Pens have lots of cap space, assets to trade, and really only a couple pieces they need to add (another solid 2rd/3rd line winger and another top-4 d-man). Furthermore, there's the possibility (maybe only a slight one, but a possibility nonetheless) that these holes will be filled internally by younger players (Tangradi, Bennett, Despres, Niskanen, etc.) being able to step up into bigger roles.


Yeah, I get that people want to be and are excited. We always have a legit shot with our top 2 centers. But I dont get how people constantly act like actual concerns make you a bad fan or downer. Its not like the original poster made any absurd claims, he was pretty much spot on with everything.

Absurd claims are telling someone that they are crazy for thinking Orpik/Martin cant be a shutdown pair because the potion for two guys who have sucked for the past year or two is playing them together. Even if it is (and they have played together before) his concerns are more valid than not.

1. If our defense as is comes around, and plays even average or Tangradi scores 30 goals, or anything of the like I wont eat crow or feel stupid. Because there is more of a shot of the poster being right than the above sentence.

2. Our only chance this year is if we can pull off deadline deals and get a 2nd winger, at the very least a young Mark Eaton "type" d-men or two, and most likely an additional 3rd or 4th line guy who cycle and wear people down.

3. My opinion on Fleury is he has been overplayed and that is his main problem, I see that solved so I have high hopes for him. He played lights out during the win streak and was part of the reason our defense flaws were masked. Once he started to falter even slightly all those odd man breaks and constant cycles caught way way up to us.

4. I am deathly afraid of our PK. Philly use our d's lack of lateral quickness to make cross ice passes, and when they adjusted they would skate right them. Usually Orpik would just fall down in front of them. Maybe Sutter can equal Staal but I doubt our 2nd PK d unit will be even halfway decent.
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Re: Are we forgetting why we lost vs Flyers last year?

Postby penmyst on Tue Jan 15, 2013 2:20 am

moondart wrote:Ok...I've had it up to here on how the Pens are "the" favorite to win the Stanley Cup. Yes, we have a lot of talent, but there are a lot of holes in this team that need fixed in order to win the cup.

1) If Orpik and Martin are our "shutdown" D pairing.....no chance at a Stanley Cup.

2) If MAF plays like he did the last 3 yrs in the playoffs...no Stanley Cup (I think he'll bounce back).

3) If Geno "floats" in the playoffs like he does every year (except 2009)...no Stanley Cup.

4) If Sid gets hurt again, no Stanley Cup.

Some of these are obvious, but I'm tired of hearing the "local" and "national" media play up the Pens just because we have Sid, Geno, Neal, etc.


It doesn't appear you are forgetting. It appears you don't even know.

NONE of those things is why the Pens lost to the Flyers last year.

Valid concerns for THIS year? Sure.

Reasons the Pens got blown off the ice last year by Philadelphia? Hell no.

1. Orpik and Martin were contributors to the suckitude against Philly. But hardly the greatest offenders. Both are veterans who have been good before, and can be more than serviceable again (Orpik I believe more than Martin, but we'll see).

2. MAF has been a huge letdown the last 3 years in the playoffs. But he's also had very good games in those 3 years. Let's just call him more inconsistent than a supposed elite goaltender ought to be.

I'm not going to blame him for the Tampa Bay debacle. And I sure as hell won't blame him for that atrocious team effort in front of him against Philadelphia. Wait, did Philly just score ANOTHER PP goal??

3. Geno does not float in the playoffs. Just because the other teams can scheme and focus on him for up to 7 games, and thereby limit his awesomeness.... does not equate him "floating". There IS another team out there on the ice without Pens jerseys, you know.

4. Sid wasn't hurt against the Flyers. Where are you coming up with that as one of the reasons "we are forgetting" that the Flyers kicked the snot out of the Pens? Matter of fact, Crosby looked pretty GD angry out there at times. Crosby has been a terror against Philly in his short NHL career thanks to their goading him into emotional play. He LOVES rampaging all over those fools and mocking their fans.


The only thing you got right in your post was to doubt the Pens being considered one of the favorites for the Cup.

Now, here are some reasons for Pens fans to ACTUALLY be worried about this season:

The Pens have not made any moves that make them appreciably better than last year's squad that limped to the finish line and then fell off the crazy train against Philadelphia.

They have lost a very good player in Staal, replaced him with a guy not as good (but perhaps more suitable to the role the Pens will limit him to than Staal was).

They still have Paul Martin. One year older, and probably one year suckier.

They added Tanner Glass, a rather unremarkable 4th liner.

They may end up with Engelland a regular starter again... and the alternative is young unproven defensemen. Neither option is exactly making my heart go thump in a GOOD way.

Their "big" signing is a backup goaltender. The only value coming from this move is if it scares MAF into playing with more CONSISTENCY in his game. But will it? I don't know. MAF is a pretty easy-going guy, which is the problem. It might not have the intended effect. And if it doesn't, is Vokuon as a starter really what Pens fans have been dreaming about? I know I sure haven't been.

They still have a coaching staff seemingly unwilling or without a clue as to make quality adjustments to the PP unit. The coaches will fumble their way through another ridonkulous PP 'solution' to the glaring problem they seem unwilling to admit to: They have two GREAT players.... that are effectively the same guy on the PP. Lower RW half-boards guys. They'll keep sticking "the two-headed monster" out there, and it will be mostly painful to watch... but the talent will be enough to get them in the top 10 PP even though it's a significant underperformance to not be top 2 with that talent.

So yeah, there are a lot of unanswered questions about these Penguins right now. Questions that take a little more detective work and effort to see, than most of the national media are involved with. That's why you see a lot of people saying "FAVORITES FOR CUP!" since they see Crosby, Malkin, Neal, Letang, and MAF. Meanwhile, the Pens over the last few seasons have been less than the sum of their parts, and that's not good enough.

(Admittedly, some of this IS injuries in that time frame, but not nearly as much as some would like to believe.)
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Re: Are we forgetting why we lost vs Flyers last year?

Postby RxBandit66 on Tue Jan 15, 2013 5:48 am

Bylsma is, and always has been, my biggest concern. The fact that Shero brought back the same exact coaching staff following the Philly series shows an abnormally strong faith in him and this system they use. I trust Shero, but he has basically placed the whole opportunity of a dynasty in Bylsma's hands, and so far, despite his regular season record, he has not been impressive.

Having said that, I'm cautiously optimistic about this season, because of the fact that Sid is healthy, and the team has two goaltenders who are very capable of winning in the postseason. The "core" is not the same with Staal gone, but they never could have kept all these guys anyway. They are also a year older, and the big four (Sid, Geno, Tanger, MAF) have had some serious injuries/concussions and setbacks in the playoffs. Those four players are not going anywhere, but this team, it's coaches and philosophy, must deliver a measurable amount of playoff success this season. Not saying they must win the Cup, but they have to make a good run at the very least. And if they don't, I look for major changes to be made, starting of course with the coaching staff.
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Re: Are we forgetting why we lost vs Flyers last year?

Postby DocEmrick on Tue Jan 15, 2013 7:16 am

I was gonna save it for dessert, but put a fork in 'em!
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Re: Are we forgetting why we lost vs Flyers last year?

Postby Batman15 on Tue Jan 15, 2013 7:45 am

Agree with the post about Bylsma. Wouldn't be surprised if he was on a very short leash.
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Re: Are we forgetting why we lost vs Flyers last year?

Postby The Current One on Tue Jan 15, 2013 8:14 am

MRandall25 wrote:How can you say an Orpik-Martin shutdown pairing won't work if you haven't seen it on the ice yet?


Because Martin stinks. The word "shutdown" will never apply to Martin's game. Maybe "fall down", or "knocked down", but shutdown? Never. Hopefully sometime this season he gets "sent down" to the AHL.
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Re: Are we forgetting why we lost vs Flyers last year?

Postby DropEmJayBird on Tue Jan 15, 2013 8:30 am

This team fell apart at the end of last year on defense. It was system wide. No defense against Winnipeg, the Islanders, and eventually against Philly.

Hopefully they've gotten it out of their system.
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Re: Are we forgetting why we lost vs Flyers last year?

Postby Idoit40fans on Tue Jan 15, 2013 8:43 am

moondart wrote:
MRandall25 wrote:How can you say an Orpik-Martin shutdown pairing won't work if you haven't seen it on the ice yet?


Yea...we have never seen them play...how could one make that conclusion...

Martin couldn't stop a Beach ball from rolling in a cave..


I'd bet my entire life savings, all my assets, and all of my available credit against that.
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Re: Are we forgetting why we lost vs Flyers last year?

Postby Malkamaniac on Tue Jan 15, 2013 9:12 am

MRandall25 wrote:How can you say an Orpik-Martin shutdown pairing won't work if you haven't seen it on the ice yet?


BECAUSE ITS FUN TO MAKE ASSUMPTIONS BEFORE THE SEASON EVEN STARTS!
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