Are we forgetting why we lost vs Flyers last year?

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Re: Are we forgetting why we lost vs Flyers last year?

Postby The Current One on Tue Jan 15, 2013 9:12 am

My money is on the beach ball in that situation.
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Re: Are we forgetting why we lost vs Flyers last year?

Postby Idoit40fans on Tue Jan 15, 2013 9:18 am

Malkamaniac wrote:
MRandall25 wrote:How can you say an Orpik-Martin shutdown pairing won't work if you haven't seen it on the ice yet?


BECAUSE ITS FUN TO MAKE ASSUMPTIONS BEFORE THE SEASON EVEN STARTS!


To be fair, I think its unlikely that it would work.
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Re: Are we forgetting why we lost vs Flyers last year?

Postby Malkamaniac on Tue Jan 15, 2013 9:19 am

Idoit40fans wrote:
Malkamaniac wrote:
MRandall25 wrote:How can you say an Orpik-Martin shutdown pairing won't work if you haven't seen it on the ice yet?


BECAUSE ITS FUN TO MAKE ASSUMPTIONS BEFORE THE SEASON EVEN STARTS!


To be fair, I think its unlikely that it would work.


Pretty much, but they haven't even played a game yet. To just automatically write them off is a little obtuse, imo.
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Re: Are we forgetting why we lost vs Flyers last year?

Postby shafnutz05 on Tue Jan 15, 2013 9:20 am

I'm willing to give Martin at least two periods before I excoriate him.
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Re: Are we forgetting why we lost vs Flyers last year?

Postby Troy Loney on Tue Jan 15, 2013 9:24 am

I felt like there was just a complete system breakdown with the Penguins going into the playoffs last season. It's not like the Devils and Kings had 6 Lidstroms vs 7 Niedermeyers at the back end. The Penguins wanted to score 10 goals a game, the staal line wasn't interested in playing defense and I think that is indicative of where the whole team was at.

I'm willing to push Bylsma out the door if he doesn't have this fixed early on this season.
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Re: Are we forgetting why we lost vs Flyers last year?

Postby Malkamaniac on Tue Jan 15, 2013 9:27 am

In regards to Byslma, it's only a matter of time before the Pens need a disciplinarian at the helm to wrangle them back in.

Hockey is crazy fickle when it comes to players and coaches not listening to each other.
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Re: Are we forgetting why we lost vs Flyers last year?

Postby DocEmrick on Tue Jan 15, 2013 9:30 am

Malkamaniac wrote:In regards to Byslma, it's only a matter of time before the Pens need a disciplinarian at the helm to wrangle them back in.

Hockey is crazy fickle when it comes to players and coaches not listening to each other.


Agreed, this is also evidenced by all the turnover since the lockout days. I think the longest tenured coach, iirc is Lindy Ruff with the Sabres. Every other franchise the coach's shelf life is like 2/3 years.
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Re: Are we forgetting why we lost vs Flyers last year?

Postby Idoit40fans on Tue Jan 15, 2013 9:35 am

Troy Loney wrote:It's not like the Devils and Kings had 6 Lidstroms vs 7 Niedermeyers at the back end.


Yeah, only 3 of each.
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Re: Are we forgetting why we lost vs Flyers last year?

Postby Idoit40fans on Tue Jan 15, 2013 9:35 am

Malkamaniac wrote:In regards to Byslma, it's only a matter of time before the Pens need a disciplinarian at the helm to wrangle them back in.

Hockey is crazy fickle when it comes to players and coaches not listening to each other.


I'd say that they needed that starting in September of 09. Probably wouldn't have been ready for something like that so soon after the cup. I'd say after that season though, it was time. Hindsight though...
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Re: Are we forgetting why we lost vs Flyers last year?

Postby Tico Rick on Tue Jan 15, 2013 9:38 am

shafnutz05 wrote:I'm willing to give Martin at least two periods before I excoriate him.


:thumb:
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Re: Are we forgetting why we lost vs Flyers last year?

Postby BurghersAndDogsSports on Tue Jan 15, 2013 9:48 am

Malkamaniac wrote:
Idoit40fans wrote:
Malkamaniac wrote:
MRandall25 wrote:How can you say an Orpik-Martin shutdown pairing won't work if you haven't seen it on the ice yet?


BECAUSE ITS FUN TO MAKE ASSUMPTIONS BEFORE THE SEASON EVEN STARTS!


To be fair, I think its unlikely that it would work.


Pretty much, but they haven't even played a game yet. To just automatically write them off is a little obtuse, imo.


To be more fair though, it's more than likely they won't be a shutdown pair than will. I don't think that's much of an assumption.
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Re: Are we forgetting why we lost vs Flyers last year?

Postby penny lane on Tue Jan 15, 2013 9:58 am

I'm am not a gambler, but las vegas must have a system to put up the pens and allow the odds to win for the house with the other teams fans betting. It means nothing.

pens players have to form good habits, learn to adjust during games, with eye on april and may.
Pens lost their composure at the end of the season. All of the trash talking and games against nyr and the flyers; they did nothing to respond, except stand on the ledge and scream at laviolette.

? will sid and evgeni kill penalties... could help out their D. Haven't read an answer yet.
Coach Dan has be to a fluid coach with "options' at the ready.
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Re: Are we forgetting why we lost vs Flyers last year?

Postby sil on Tue Jan 15, 2013 10:02 am

I just want to address one of the original comments...the Geno floating comment. I wouldn't necessarily call it that, as he was pretty emotionally involved in that playoff series, but he was defensively non-existent. However, you could pretty much say the same thing for any penguin not named James Neal and Jordan Staal in that series too.

I won't just be looking at Malkin, but the whole forward lot when it comes to actually disciplining themselves to play at both ends.
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Re: Are we forgetting why we lost vs Flyers last year?

Postby newarenanow on Tue Jan 15, 2013 10:16 am

So the Kings have to be the favorite because they are the only team that won the Cup last year?

Obviously every other team had some holes.
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Re: Are we forgetting why we lost vs Flyers last year?

Postby Idoit40fans on Tue Jan 15, 2013 10:17 am

sil wrote:I just want to address one of the original comments...the Geno floating comment. I wouldn't necessarily call it that, as he was pretty emotionally involved in that playoff series, but he was defensively non-existent. However, you could pretty much say the same thing for any penguin not named James Neal and Jordan Staal in that series too.

I won't just be looking at Malkin, but the whole forward lot when it comes to actually disciplining themselves to play at both ends.


You could definitely say that about Jordan Staal that series. Didn't notice it as much with Neal, but Neal isn't expected to be a plus defensive player.
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Re: Are we forgetting why we lost vs Flyers last year?

Postby DocEmrick on Tue Jan 15, 2013 10:22 am

I'm not too worried about Geno floating. I'm still hoping Martin can bounce back, as I recall Gonchar doing horrible his first two seasons here.

Not trying to compare Martin to Gonchar as the two are totally different types of defensemen, but I'm willing to give Martin a chance this season (if only for the first part).
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Re: Are we forgetting why we lost vs Flyers last year?

Postby shafnutz05 on Tue Jan 15, 2013 10:30 am

Rangers win the Cup this year....book it
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Re: Are we forgetting why we lost vs Flyers last year?

Postby DocEmrick on Tue Jan 15, 2013 10:32 am

shafnutz05 wrote:Rangers win the Cup this year....book it


As much as I hate to admit it, I have a strong feeling that this is pretty close to what's going to happen.

I don't understand how a team can fit in Nash, Gaborik, Richards and Boyle in the salary cap. Add in Del Zotto (still on an entry level contract?), and Lundqvist, and you might as well strike the salary cap and let the big markets get richer while the small markets continue to suffer.

Of course, I guess people say the same thing about us, like how can fit in Crosby/Malkin/Fleury...but still. It's gonna be a tough season for the Atlantic Division.
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Re: Are we forgetting why we lost vs Flyers last year?

Postby shmenguin on Tue Jan 15, 2013 10:52 am

DocEmrick wrote:I don't understand how a team can fit in Nash, Gaborik, Richards and Boyle in the salary cap. Add in Del Zotto (still on an entry level contract?), and Lundqvist, and you might as well strike the salary cap and let the big markets get richer while the small markets continue to suffer.



i don't understand the implication here. the rangers' roster has nothing to do with their market size. they have a lot of young players and a lot of cheap players. plus, their stars make less than our stars.
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Re: Are we forgetting why we lost vs Flyers last year?

Postby Kaizer on Tue Jan 15, 2013 11:01 am

the pens are always my favorite to win it all before the season starts.
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Re: Are we forgetting why we lost vs Flyers last year?

Postby DocEmrick on Tue Jan 15, 2013 11:10 am

shmenguin wrote:
DocEmrick wrote:I don't understand how a team can fit in Nash, Gaborik, Richards and Boyle in the salary cap. Add in Del Zotto (still on an entry level contract?), and Lundqvist, and you might as well strike the salary cap and let the big markets get richer while the small markets continue to suffer.



i don't understand the implication here. the rangers' roster has nothing to do with their market size. they have a lot of young players and a lot of cheap players. plus, their stars make less than our stars.


I know that, I'm just saying pre-cap days the large markets were free to spend as they could. Sure the stars make less, but I was just alluding to the fact that they are pretty big names who have performed well the last few seasons.
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Re: Are we forgetting why we lost vs Flyers last year?

Postby Nizzy on Tue Jan 15, 2013 11:15 am

Are we forgetting why we lost vs Flyers last year?

No.

1. Dan Bylsma got Embarrassingly out-coached.
2. The rest doesn't matter, because #1 was so bad.
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Re: Are we forgetting why we lost vs Flyers last year?

Postby shmenguin on Tue Jan 15, 2013 11:22 am

i think the question mark with the rangers is their top end talent. their scoring depth is real bad, and there isn't much evidence that their top guys can make up the difference (like the pens can).
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Re: Are we forgetting why we lost vs Flyers last year?

Postby Rylan on Tue Jan 15, 2013 11:26 am

Doesn't matter what happened last season. Its time to worry about getting it done this season. Until 10 games in I am not going to have any idea how this team will do.
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Re: Are we forgetting why we lost vs Flyers last year?

Postby sil on Tue Jan 15, 2013 12:07 pm

Idoit40fans wrote:
sil wrote:I just want to address one of the original comments...the Geno floating comment. I wouldn't necessarily call it that, as he was pretty emotionally involved in that playoff series, but he was defensively non-existent. However, you could pretty much say the same thing for any penguin not named James Neal and Jordan Staal in that series too.

I won't just be looking at Malkin, but the whole forward lot when it comes to actually disciplining themselves to play at both ends.


You could definitely say that about Jordan Staal that series. Didn't notice it as much with Neal, but Neal isn't expected to be a plus defensive player.


What I saw in Neal wasn't great defense, so forgive me if my post implied that, but what I was really getting at was seeing a forward (in Neal) who was flying all over the ice, digging in defensively, hitting anything that moved, and at least trying to counteract the Flyers when they had the puck. Crosby, Malkin, eh, not so much. They both seemed to be more passively waiting around for an offensive breakout, a la what we see in a guy like Ovechkin on most nights. We've seen Crosby and Malkin both do it the right way before (2008, 2009), which really is what makes it all the more frustrating to remember.
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