Are we forgetting why we lost vs Flyers last year?

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Re: Are we forgetting why we lost vs Flyers last year?

Postby sil on Tue Jan 15, 2013 12:09 pm

shmenguin wrote:i think the question mark with the rangers is their top end talent. their scoring depth is real bad, and there isn't much evidence that their top guys can make up the difference (like the pens can).


To me it's their defensive depth. Tortorella basically wore his top-3 defenders down to nubs by the time they hit the third round...they had nothing left in the tank. They'll need more out of their 4-7 defenders if they want to think about winning the cup.
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Re: Are we forgetting why we lost vs Flyers last year?

Postby Noise on Tue Jan 15, 2013 1:49 pm

Whole team played like crap against Philly & got suckered into playing an emotional up & down game which Philly has the firepower to win every time.

The Pens need to stay mentally disciplined against the Flyers and play a tight defensive game
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Re: Are we forgetting why we lost vs Flyers last year?

Postby pcm on Tue Jan 15, 2013 2:01 pm

Idoit40fans wrote:
moondart wrote:
MRandall25 wrote:How can you say an Orpik-Martin shutdown pairing won't work if you haven't seen it on the ice yet?


Yea...we have never seen them play...how could one make that conclusion...

Martin couldn't stop a Beach ball from rolling in a cave..


I'd bet my entire life savings, all my assets, and all of my available credit against that.


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Re: Are we forgetting why we lost vs Flyers last year?

Postby no name on Tue Jan 15, 2013 3:18 pm

There were to many things going wrong in that series to pin it on one thing. Just the Penguins getting back to "Pens hockey" is what is needed.

We were riding a high having Sid and Geno back in place, we were poised to take over the top seed in the Eastern conference. We blew a tire and never recovered befor the playoffs. Pretty simple, then all parts of the team were not working insync. Actually when the ship is going down its the coach who has to find a way to right the ship. And he didn't seem to do that. But the players were out of control trying to send messages when you are down in a series is not going to get you anywhere.
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Re: Are we forgetting why we lost vs Flyers last year?

Postby penmyst on Tue Jan 15, 2013 4:44 pm

no name wrote:We were riding a high having Sid and Geno back in place, we were poised to take over the top seed in the Eastern conference. We blew a tire and never recovered befor the playoffs. Pretty simple, then all parts of the team were not working insync. Actually when the ship is going down its the coach who has to find a way to right the ship. And he didn't seem to do that. But the players were out of control trying to send messages when you are down in a series is not going to get you anywhere.


Any team with Crosby and Malkin are going to always have a shot at being good. They are game changer type players.

But what we saw go down last year against Philly was a system-wide, team-wide breakdown.

Sure, the players appeared out of control flailing about at bad times trying to send messages that were wrongheaded and pointless.

In my experience watching sports, when you see an entire team fall apart, it's more the coaching staff's fault than the players. Let's remember, these weren't games that the Pens *just* got edged out, or lost on a bad bounce late in a tight game. It looked like an NHL team playing Peewee leaguers.

HCDB had no answers for what the Flyers were doing. When he had no answers, the players were left to find their own. And we saw how that turned out. A bunch of guys seemingly never on the same page as a unified Flyers team ran them silly and kept lighting the lamp.

I think HCDB is on the hotseat this year. While I don't see a midseason firing in the works, even if the Pens have a middling record (since it's a strike-shortened year that will be cover), I think that what we see from the Pens through the season is going to show us whether or not HCDB has gotten a handle on his and the team's deficiencies and straightens this thing out. I'm hoping that happens, since the Pirates and Steelers have left a bad taste in our collective yinzer mouths this year.
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Re: Are we forgetting why we lost vs Flyers last year?

Postby shmenguin on Tue Jan 15, 2013 4:45 pm

if we start off the season losing a few games the way we lost those flyers games, i'd endorse bylsma being fired right away.
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Re: Are we forgetting why we lost vs Flyers last year?

Postby Malkamaniac on Tue Jan 15, 2013 5:37 pm

The Rangers are still somewhat of an Enigma. Torts system is too defensive for the starts they have up front.
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Re: Are we forgetting why we lost vs Flyers last year?

Postby Gaucho on Tue Jan 15, 2013 6:07 pm

Dave Molinari ‏@MolinariPG
Headline on team website: "Penguins Launch 7 Days of Giveaways." Sounds like the sequel to their first-round playoff series against Flyers.

Ouch.
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Re: Are we forgetting why we lost vs Flyers last year?

Postby offsides on Tue Jan 15, 2013 7:07 pm

The negativity is abound in this thread. Can't we at least wait until the weekend games are over before trashing the team and coaches? If we lose the first two games, all bets are off and let the criticism begin.
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Re: Are we forgetting why we lost vs Flyers last year?

Postby meecrofilm on Tue Jan 15, 2013 7:10 pm

I think the "Malkin floats in the playoffs" is the most egregious of any of the statements made, even with the sans 2009 comment.
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Re: Are we forgetting why we lost vs Flyers last year?

Postby dman66 on Tue Jan 15, 2013 8:41 pm

meecrofilm wrote:I think the "Malkin floats in the playoffs" is the most egregious of any of the statements made, even with the sans 2009 comment.


Agreed. It just doesn't make any sense at all
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Re: Are we forgetting why we lost vs Flyers last year?

Postby pens_srq on Tue Jan 15, 2013 10:07 pm

I think Vokoun is a big deal this year. He can handle the puck on the dump in. Remember the line in 24-7 about "it's when the puck goes to the goaltender"? Ever since that line I've noticed. Yup, that's when it's the worst. When the other team dumps it in and Fleury goes out to play it. I really like Fleury but he's not improving like our other core team members. The one soft goal a game thing really needs to go as well.

The D in front of him needs big bodies clearing the front of the net. The Pens failed horribly to do that against anyone last year.

Orpik's play has declined since Blysma got here. I do not see the emphasis on good solid D that the Pens had under Therrien. Basically the D are too soff
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Re: Are we forgetting why we lost vs Flyers last year?

Postby penmyst on Tue Jan 15, 2013 11:07 pm

pens_srq wrote:I think Vokoun is a big deal this year. He can handle the puck on the dump in. Remember the line in 24-7 about "it's when the puck goes to the goaltender"? Ever since that line I've noticed. Yup, that's when it's the worst. When the other team dumps it in and Fleury goes out to play it. I really like Fleury but he's not improving like our other core team members. The one soft goal a game thing really needs to go as well.


I'll agree that every time MAF wanders out of the net, your heart is in your throat... Can't they work on that?

pens_srq wrote:The D in front of him needs big bodies clearing the front of the net. The Pens failed horribly to do that against anyone last year.


I'd be happy to see most of them actually cover a guy in front of the net first. Baby steps.

pens_srq wrote:Orpik's play has declined since Blysma got here. I do not see the emphasis on good solid D that the Pens had under Therrien. Basically the D are too soff


Are they soff, or are they simply being exposed as individuals since the team D effort has declined since FHCMT's days running the show?

Outside of Letang, I don't think the Pens D have anybody with great individual skill. Which is true of most every team in the NHL since you can only spend so much money under a cap and you can't have four 5+million dollar players back there. Anyways, it makes teamwork on D as a collective effort that much more important. We are going to get a chance to see if that has changed for this year.
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Re: Are we forgetting why we lost vs Flyers last year?

Postby Kovy27 on Wed Jan 16, 2013 12:09 am

No...I don't remember.

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Re: Are we forgetting why we lost vs Flyers last year?

Postby thepittman on Wed Jan 16, 2013 12:58 am

The philly series was a fluke. The team was out of it mentally and were more concerned with hits than defense and scoring.
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Re: Are we forgetting why we lost vs Flyers last year?

Postby offsides on Wed Jan 16, 2013 1:03 am

thepittman wrote:The philly series was a fluke. The team was out of it mentally and were more concerned with hits than defense and scoring.


Hope you're right, but this still has to be proven. We'll see what happens this year.
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Re: Are we forgetting why we lost vs Flyers last year?

Postby i gregory on Wed Jan 16, 2013 7:08 am

Long time lurker, first time poster:

I think we have the personnel to win it all. Yes, the Rangers and some other teams have scary rosters, but so do we. Our forwards have the capacity to be defensively responsible, and that's really a mindset that has to come from the coach. If they play a regimented, disciplined game they're as good as anyone.... provided that a few of the vet defensemen are just average (Orpik, Martin) and at least one rookie (or hopefully two, Bortuzzo and Despres) shows that they can be a decent defensive defenseman. Goaltending is always an adventure, but I think that having an older Vokoun is still a nice insurance policy we haven't had in some time.

Since this thread is about the loss to the Flyers, remember that they have at least as many question marks going forward as we do. The one advantage they have over us is coaching, unless HCDB decides he can occasionally move away from his one 'get to our game' strategy when necessary.

Regardless, the Pens are going to be the most entertaining team in the league again, and after missing hockey for so long I'm not going to complain too loudly unless they seriously are blowing the season 10 or 15 games in. Let's go pens!
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Re: Are we forgetting why we lost vs Flyers last year?

Postby no name on Wed Jan 16, 2013 9:10 am

I am guessing he got that beech ball through the 5 hole on that last pic... Fleury needs to work on that.
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Re: Are we forgetting why we lost vs Flyers last year?

Postby Fire0nice228 on Wed Jan 16, 2013 1:13 pm

offsides wrote:The negativity is abound in this thread. Can't we at least wait until the weekend games are over before trashing the team and coaches? If we lose the first two games, all bets are off and let the criticism begin.



So we cant be concerned now but if we lose the first 2 games against two of the best teams in the league go for it.

got it
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Re: Are we forgetting why we lost vs Flyers last year?

Postby RxBandit66 on Wed Jan 16, 2013 2:23 pm

In terms of sheer offense, the Pens can score as much as any team in the league. Defensively, there are more question marks. Veterans Orpik and Martin have to be better than last season. Letang needs to stay healthy and make better decisions on the power play. In goal, they are in great shape because if MAF melts down they can turn to Vokoun. There are a number of reasons to be optimistic, but on a side note:

The 3rd and 4th lines need to be more difficult to play against than they were last season. Kennedy-Sutter-Cooke is one heck of a line, but the 4th line with Adams and Vitale never really impressed me. Tanner Glass replaces Asham, but still I don't care for that 4th line. And there's not much scoring depth beyond the top five forwards, a few of which had career years last year and are getting up there in years.
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Re: Are we forgetting why we lost vs Flyers last year?

Postby Rylan on Wed Jan 16, 2013 2:36 pm

Lol at the Fleury complaints. He and Malkin carried the Pens last year. He had a bad playoffs but stop acting like allows a soft goal a game. That is utter rubbish and is annoying stigma connected to him
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Re: Are we forgetting why we lost vs Flyers last year?

Postby penmyst on Wed Jan 16, 2013 2:50 pm

Kovy27, in those oh-so-cleverly photoshopped pics of goals against MAF.................. did you notice something in the backgrounds?

No? That's okay, I didn't think you would. Let me help you out.

Notice those Flyers having no Penguin within 5 feet of them?

Yeah.. about that. See, that's how goals get scored in the NHL. Mkay?

It wasn't all MAF's fault. I know that those doctored photos were supposed to make us *think* it was. But the person doctoring them should have also shopped the Penguins with the lasso tool and put them RIGHT next to the goal scorers to at least *pretend* that they had great coverage and MAF simply let the team down.
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Re: Are we forgetting why we lost vs Flyers last year?

Postby tfrizz on Wed Jan 16, 2013 2:52 pm

Rylan wrote:Lol at the Fleury complaints. He and Malkin carried the Pens last year. He had a bad playoffs but stop acting like allows a soft goal a game. That is utter rubbish and is annoying stigma connected to him


:thumb:

Last February, Byslma expressed his own concern that they were playing Fleury too much but continued to do so because there was no other reliable option. During the playoff series, several TV analysts/reports mentioned that Fleury was missing routine saves in practice and warm-ups as well as struggling in games - which is a pretty good indicator of mental fatigue.

Come last off-season, and the Pens' brass said they felt Fleury was tired by playoffs and wanted to get a reliable backup to take some of the load off him - so they traded for Vokoun's rights and signed him.


As I've posted before, there seems to be a strong link between the number of games Fleury plays in the regular season and how he plays in the playoffs. It's very likely he's just not a guy that can start 65-70 games and have something left in the tank.
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Re: Are we forgetting why we lost vs Flyers last year?

Postby shmenguin on Wed Jan 16, 2013 2:55 pm

fleury was a disgrace in that series. those photoshops are well deserved.
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Re: Are we forgetting why we lost vs Flyers last year?

Postby Rylan on Wed Jan 16, 2013 3:00 pm

shmenguin wrote:fleury was a disgrace in that series. those photoshops are well deserved.


So was the entire team. Its becoming an annoying bad habit to lay all blame at Fleury's feet. He had more than his share of failure in that series, but the over-criticization is unwarranted overall.
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