LGP Political Discussion Thread

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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby DelPen on Wed Jan 16, 2013 3:15 pm

Factorial wrote:
DelPen wrote:I have a carry permit in SC. I had to submit finger prints and subject myself to a criminal background check to get it. The depth of the checking SC does, and some other states, exempts purchasers with a permit to need subsequent checks as long as that permit is valid which is great for me, it's like the express checkout lane. It's assumed that since I passed the check, and haven't done anything to lose it, that I'm fine.

I would like to see a national standard set for nationwide concealed carry in all 50 states and DC as well as be exempt from other types of checks where applicable. Let me VOLUNTARILY committ myself if I chose but I should also reap the rewards. I can opt out at any time ut my nationwide super permit is voided. But what this can do is show how many highly resonsible gun owners there are in this country. This would also help to reduce crime or at the very least you will have some hard data to measure.


Your proposing a new federal program?


A permitting program run by the ATF, of course I'd pay out of pocket for the license like I do now for my drivers license, CWP, etc. Or make it a new level of the Federal Firearm License that already exists.
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby shafnutz05 on Wed Jan 16, 2013 3:33 pm

You want to know why gun rights advocates are so zealous about guaranteeing their rights are protected? Because of zealots like this on the other side:

http://newsbusters.org/blogs/matthew-balan/2013/01/16/bob-schieffer-likens-obama-taking-gun-lobby-hunt-bin-laden-defeating-

Bob Schieffer somehow topped Chris Matthews during CBS News's special coverage of President Obama's gun control press conference on Wednesday, as he became the worst caricature of a foaming-at-the-mouth cheerleader for the chief executive. Schieffer lauded "one of the best speeches I've ever heard him [Obama] deliver", and compared Obama's new gun control agenda to Lyndon Johnson's push for civil rights legislation in the 1960s.


BOB SCHIEFFER: ...Let's remember: there was considerable opposition when Lyndon Johnson went to the Congress and...presented some of the most comprehensive civil rights legislation in the history of this country. Most people told him he couldn't get it done, but he figured out a way to do it. And that's what Barack Obama is going to have to do...what happened in Newtown was probably the worst day in this country's history since 9/11. We found Osama bin Laden. We tracked him down. We changed the way that we dealt with that problem. Surely, finding Osama bin Laden; surely passing civil rights legislation, as Lyndon Johnson was able to do; and before that, surely, defeating the Nazis, was a much more formidable task than taking on the gun lobby.


Sycophants....that is the only way to describe them. We were even discussing Godwin's Law earlier..
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby pfim on Wed Jan 16, 2013 4:30 pm

shafnutz05 wrote:You want to know why gun rights advocates are so zealous about guaranteeing their rights are protected? Because of zealots like this on the other side:



Chicken/egg.

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/20 ... ?hpt=hp_t1
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby mac5155 on Wed Jan 16, 2013 4:47 pm

pfim wrote:
shafnutz05 wrote:You want to know why gun rights advocates are so zealous about guaranteeing their rights are protected? Because of zealots like this on the other side:



Chicken/egg.

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/20 ... ?hpt=hp_t1


Id like to know what is utterly pathetic about that ad, mr morgan, but frankly i dont even want to hear you speak.
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby Shyster on Wed Jan 16, 2013 4:48 pm

columbia wrote:Or to put it another way: what's the baseline of tyranny for people here, that would require them to bear arms against the government (and therefore other Americans)?

An attempt to ban or confiscate guns. That’s my limit.
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby Shyster on Wed Jan 16, 2013 5:45 pm

Question: for those of you who may not be too familiar with guns, are you aware that a vast number of handguns, including the ones most commonly chosen by law-abiding people for self-defense, come standard with magazines holding 10 to 20 rounds? For example, the Glock 22 and 23 are two of the most widely-owned handguns in the country for both private owners and police officers, and they are standard sidearms for hundreds of police agencies. The 22 is designed around a magazine that holds 15-rounds of the .40 S&W cartridge, and the smaller 23 is designed around a 13-round magazine. The same two guns are also available chambered in 9mm as the Glock 17 and 19, and those come standard with 17- and 15-round magazines. Some other popular and widely owned handguns hold:

Smith & Wesson M&P – 17 in 9mm; 15 in .40 S&W
SIG 229 – 13 in 9mm; 12 in .40 S&W
Ruger SR9 & SR40 – 17 in 9mm; 15 in .40 S&W
Springfield XD(m) – 19 in 9mm; 16 in .40 S&W
Heckler & Koch P2000 – 13 in 9mm; 12 in .40 S&W
Taurus 24/7 Gen 2 – 17 in 9mm; 15 in .40 S&W
CZ 75 – 16 in 9mm

Did you know this, that most popular handguns come with magazines holding more than 10 rounds?
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby tifosi77 on Wed Jan 16, 2013 6:21 pm

Shyster wrote:
columbia wrote:Or to put it another way: what's the baseline of tyranny for people here, that would require them to bear arms against the government (and therefore other Americans)?

An attempt to ban or confiscate guns. That’s my limit.

I think more instructive and useful to look at through the prism of the drafting of the Second Amendment. What is the baseline that the people who wrote the 2A considered appropriate?

The Constitution may have been written ten years after the Revolution, but government tyranny was still something that was quite clearly front-of-mind for the Framers. Look at the enumerated rights of the Constitution (in order of appearance):

1. Religion, speech, press, assembly
2. Guns (vis-a-vis militia, which was regarded as the primary bastion against the power of a big central government)
3. No quartering of troops in private residences
4. Search & seizure (private property)
5. Grand jury indictment, double jeopardy, self-incrimination, due process
6. Speedy public trials, representation by defense counsel
7. Jury trials
8. Cruel and unusual punishment
9. Unenumerated rights
10. Delegation of powers to states

The Bill of Rights is really a list of things the government cannot do to the citizens, not merely a simple list of rights those citizens enjoy. In that context, it's pretty clear that the entire point and purpose of the Bill of Rights is to address concerns about tyrannical government power. So it matters little what you or I or anyone here thinks is an appropriate threshold. Without addressing the structural foundation of the government, picking away at certain individual rights will be in exercise in futility.

Basically what I'm saying is this: the only truly effective legislative measure that can achieve any semblance of 'gun control' is to amend the Constitution and specifically curtail the rights protected by 2A. And I wish you luck with that pursuit, cos that's a mighty tall hill to climb.
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby Gaucho on Wed Jan 16, 2013 6:58 pm

Shyster wrote: self-defense


Do you need to carry a gun at all times to feel safe?

To be clear, I'm honestly simply asking out of curiosity.
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby Geezer on Wed Jan 16, 2013 7:17 pm

tifosi77 wrote:
shafnutz05 wrote:http://denver.cbslocal.com/2013/01/15/police-shoot-kill-dog-when-going-to-a-home-by-mistake/

An Adams County man is in shock after he says deputies shot and killed his dog.

Jeff Fisher said deputies went to his house by mistake. He said when they opened the door his dog Ziggy ran outside and officers shot and killed him.

Fisher said Ziggy was his best friend and can’t believe he’s gone.

“(He went to the door) to see who it was and the police officer shot him three times,” Fisher said. “They killed my dog for no reason.”

Yeah, well, those vicious collie mixes will herd the hell outta you if you let them. Obviously, the cop wasn't going to let him.

Part of me wants to say I wish the cop's dog gets hit by a car, but then that's just one more dead dog that didn't do anything wrong. Perhaps I can pray to Shiva to give the cop terminal mouth herpes instead.

I'm assuming the cops screwed up and didn't intentionally kill the guy's dog.I'm guessing that you're exagerating or do you really believe a dead dog's life is equivalent to a human life?
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby Geezer on Wed Jan 16, 2013 7:22 pm

shafnutz05 wrote:
columbia wrote:I recall the halcyon days when shad was complaining about this thread not being conservative enough.


I think this thread tends to go liberal/conservative based on current political happenings. Hell, I have even taken a relatively liberal tack at times. The irrational grandstanding going on right now strikes a chord with a lot of people that wouldn't otherwise be politically minded, IMO.

I'd say the lefty posts outnumber "conservative" posts about 5 to 1. There are times when shaf and a few others look like one of the muskateers fencing with 5 or 6 of the kings clownish henchmen. It's not worth the effort much of the time.
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby Gaucho on Wed Jan 16, 2013 7:24 pm

My heart, it bleeds.
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby Hockeynut! on Wed Jan 16, 2013 7:27 pm

Geezer wrote:
tifosi77 wrote:
shafnutz05 wrote:http://denver.cbslocal.com/2013/01/15/police-shoot-kill-dog-when-going-to-a-home-by-mistake/

An Adams County man is in shock after he says deputies shot and killed his dog.

Jeff Fisher said deputies went to his house by mistake. He said when they opened the door his dog Ziggy ran outside and officers shot and killed him.

Fisher said Ziggy was his best friend and can’t believe he’s gone.

“(He went to the door) to see who it was and the police officer shot him three times,” Fisher said. “They killed my dog for no reason.”

Yeah, well, those vicious collie mixes will herd the hell outta you if you let them. Obviously, the cop wasn't going to let him.

Part of me wants to say I wish the cop's dog gets hit by a car, but then that's just one more dead dog that didn't do anything wrong. Perhaps I can pray to Shiva to give the cop terminal mouth herpes instead.

I'm assuming the cops screwed up and didn't intentionally kill the guy's dog.I'm guessing that you're exagerating or do you really believe a dead dog's life is equivalent to a human life?


So the cop unintentionally shot the dog 3 times? Then told the crying owner to calm down and that he can get a new dog? And of course, this all after breaking into the guy's house.
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby columbia on Wed Jan 16, 2013 7:29 pm

Hockeynut! wrote:
Geezer wrote:
tifosi77 wrote:
shafnutz05 wrote:http://denver.cbslocal.com/2013/01/15/police-shoot-kill-dog-when-going-to-a-home-by-mistake/

An Adams County man is in shock after he says deputies shot and killed his dog.

Jeff Fisher said deputies went to his house by mistake. He said when they opened the door his dog Ziggy ran outside and officers shot and killed him.

Fisher said Ziggy was his best friend and can’t believe he’s gone.

“(He went to the door) to see who it was and the police officer shot him three times,” Fisher said. “They killed my dog for no reason.”

Yeah, well, those vicious collie mixes will herd the hell outta you if you let them. Obviously, the cop wasn't going to let him.

Part of me wants to say I wish the cop's dog gets hit by a car, but then that's just one more dead dog that didn't do anything wrong. Perhaps I can pray to Shiva to give the cop terminal mouth herpes instead.

I'm assuming the cops screwed up and didn't intentionally kill the guy's dog.I'm guessing that you're exagerating or do you really believe a dead dog's life is equivalent to a human life?


So the cop unintentionally shot the dog 3 times? Then told the crying owner to calm down and that he can get a new dog? And of course, this all after breaking into the guy's house.



^^^

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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby Alejandro Rojas on Wed Jan 16, 2013 7:29 pm

Let's by all means give the government more control over our lives.
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby Hockeynut! on Wed Jan 16, 2013 7:30 pm

columbia wrote:
^^^

clownish henchman



:lol:
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby Shyster on Wed Jan 16, 2013 7:52 pm

Gaucho wrote:
Shyster wrote: self-defense


Do you need to carry a gun at all times to feel safe?

To be clear, I'm honestly simply asking out of curiosity.

No. I don’t carry all of the time, and I rarely feel unsafe even if I’m not carrying. As a white guy living in the suburbs, I’m not a likely victim for homicide and the places where I regularly work, shop, and travel are relatively low in crime. I have a carry permit for the same reason I always wear a seatbelt when driving: in the unlikely chance that something bad happens, I view it as a device that will make it less likely that I will be killed or seriously injured.
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby Geezer on Wed Jan 16, 2013 7:53 pm

columbia wrote:So whats the minimum threshold for people here, re: feeling the need to bear arms against the government?

btw: I have to hand it to the gun industry: selling paranoia might be the highest form of American capitalism. :lol:

Selling pie in the sky and bullsh*t progressive solutions are the highest form of democrat socialism.

The murder rate dropped since the last assault gun ban, but let's go there again.
Most of the recent mass murders were the result of psychos but no reason to address that.
A high number of routine gun murders are done by black inner city young men.Let's pretend that doesn't exist either.

Rather than bearing arms against the feds the better approach is to bring the mega government to its knees by passive resistance.
Conservatives need to have mass filings for every fed giveway program, file for every minority program falsely claiming to have some vague minority ancestors(similar to the new Mass. American Indian senator) claim dozens of exemptions to reduce income tax witholding to zero to regain control of the irresponsible spendaholics in D.C.
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby tifosi77 on Wed Jan 16, 2013 7:56 pm

Geezer wrote:I'm assuming the cops screwed up and didn't intentionally kill the guy's dog.I'm guessing that you're exagerating or do you really believe a dead dog's life is equivalent to a human life?

Depends on the human.

The cops made a mistake; answering a call for an alarm at a business, they went to the wrong address. The cops forced the door open, the dog ran out - as dogs tend to do at time when they're excited about people at the door - and a cop shot the dog three times and killed it.

Were I the dog owner in that scenario, it's very possible if not likely that the next radio call the dispatcher would have received would have been "ten-double-0".

Geezer wrote:I'd say the lefty posts outnumber "conservative" posts about 5 to 1. There are times when shaf and a few others look like one of the muskateers fencing with 5 or 6 of the kings clownish henchmen. It's not worth the effort much of the time.

I'd say that for the first year I was on this thread that might have been the case. But more recently, I'd say it's closer to 60-40 in favor of conservatives.

Perhaps somewhat related, but I think the swing has been more noticeable since Guinness got bounced. (Unfairly, imo)
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby Gaucho on Wed Jan 16, 2013 7:58 pm

Shyster wrote:
Gaucho wrote:
Shyster wrote: self-defense


Do you need to carry a gun at all times to feel safe?

To be clear, I'm honestly simply asking out of curiosity.

No. I don’t carry all of the time, and I rarely feel unsafe even if I’m not carrying. As a white guy living in the suburbs, I’m not a likely victim for homicide and the places where I regularly work, shop, and travel are relatively low in crime. I have a carry permit for the same reason I always wear a seatbelt when driving: in the unlikely chance that something bad happens, I view it as a device that will make it less likely that I will be killed or seriously injured.


Gotcha. As I said, I'm really just curious.
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby Geezer on Wed Jan 16, 2013 8:00 pm

shafnutz05 wrote:Yeah, I despise the president for a lot of reasons, but I found it difficult to get that sauced up over the return to "normal" levels.

The best thing that could happen would be if the 53%,aka income taxpers, were given a form showing them what taxes it would take to stay even with the democrat's trillion dollar annual deficit. That should be followed with a $50,000 bill for the debt heaped upon every newborn today. That would be be more like $75,000+ for 53% babies and zilch for the others that they'll have to carry on their backs.
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby Shyster on Wed Jan 16, 2013 8:03 pm

tifosi77 wrote:I'd say that for the first year I was on this thread that might have been the case. But more recently, I'd say it's closer to 60-40 in favor of conservatives.

Perhaps somewhat related, but I think the swing has been more noticeable since Guinness got bounced. (Unfairly, imo)

While I sound convervative on many subjects, I am a libertarian. Watch: Legalize drugs! Drone strikes cause terrorism! Close all overseas military bases!

See? Totally not a conservative. :)
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby Geezer on Wed Jan 16, 2013 8:05 pm

pittsoccer33 wrote:$4 billion goes to spending for 15,000 police officers. Isn't that pretty much what the NRA suggested?

Local police should be paid for by local state taxes.Or do we want a national police force now? Of course that should be the same for teachers but maybe the Dems need another entrenched taxpayer bribed voting block.
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby MWB on Wed Jan 16, 2013 8:08 pm

I think very few people on this board fit into a "lefty"/conservative hole.
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby tifosi77 on Wed Jan 16, 2013 8:09 pm

Shyster wrote:While I sound convervative on many subjects, I am a libertarian. Watch: Legalize drugs! Drone strikes cause terrorism! Close all overseas military bases!

See? Totally not a conservative. :)

:P

While I know those positions are viewed as liberal hallmarks, I think such things are actually small 'c' conservative. Things like legalizing drugs, same-sex marriage, abortion, reduced overseas footprints..... at their heart, my positions are really centered on minimizing the role and impact the federal government plays.

Just don't get me started on healthcare. :lol:
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby shafnutz05 on Wed Jan 16, 2013 8:10 pm

MWB wrote:I think very few people on this board fit into a "lefty"/conservative hole.


Agreed. Except maybe Factorial and steelhammer :pop:
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