LGP Political Discussion Thread

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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby Gaucho on Wed Jan 16, 2013 8:16 pm

No comment
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby Geezer on Wed Jan 16, 2013 8:24 pm

tifosi77 wrote:
Shyster wrote:While I sound convervative on many subjects, I am a libertarian. Watch: Legalize drugs! Drone strikes cause terrorism! Close all overseas military bases!

See? Totally not a conservative. :)

:P

While I know those positions are viewed as liberal hallmarks, I think such things are actually small 'c' conservative. Things like legalizing drugs, same-sex marriage, abortion, reduced overseas footprints..... at their heart, my positions are really centered on minimizing the role and impact the federal government plays.

Just don't get me started on healthcare. :lol:

The social issues seem more libertarian to me. I view the liberal contingent as the big government gang and the big speners who are either oblivious to our debt/deficit emergency or their belief that the liberals can deficit-spend our way to prosperity. I don't see a 60-40 split in favor of reducing federal government or responsible spending.
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby MWB on Wed Jan 16, 2013 8:27 pm

If we're just talking about government size, there are far more people on this board who want smaller government. Don't think it's even close, really.
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby Gaucho on Wed Jan 16, 2013 8:33 pm

tifosi77 wrote:While I know those positions are viewed as liberal hallmarks, I think such things are actually small 'c' conservative. Things like legalizing drugs, same-sex marriage, abortion, reduced overseas footprints..... at their heart, my positions are really centered on minimizing the role and impact the federal government plays.


You don't happen to be Angela Merkel, do you?
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby Factorial on Wed Jan 16, 2013 9:24 pm

shafnutz05 wrote:
MWB wrote:I think very few people on this board fit into a "lefty"/conservative hole.


Agreed. Except maybe Factorial and steelhammer :pop:


:thumb:
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby columbia on Wed Jan 16, 2013 9:55 pm

Don't shoot the messenger....as it were:

Joe Scarborough ‏@JoeNBC
Question of the night for GOP radicals: Do you consider Ronald Reagan a RINO for supporting a ban on assault weapons?
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby Factorial on Wed Jan 16, 2013 9:58 pm

columbia wrote:Don't shoot the messenger....as it were:

Joe Scarborough ‏@JoeNBC
Question of the night for GOP radicals: Do you consider Ronald Reagan a RINO for supporting a ban on assault weapons?


Reagan was a liberal.
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby shafnutz05 on Wed Jan 16, 2013 10:00 pm

This isn't that surprising...Reagan almost died at the hands of an assassin.

To add, I just don't think a lot of people understand the silly differentation the government places on what is an assault weapon and what isn't.
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby columbia on Wed Jan 16, 2013 10:01 pm

I'm pretty sure that Scarborough understands the difference.
He's an NRA member, in fact.
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby Gaucho on Wed Jan 16, 2013 10:02 pm

Factorial wrote:
columbia wrote:Don't shoot the messenger....as it were:

Joe Scarborough ‏@JoeNBC
Question of the night for GOP radicals: Do you consider Ronald Reagan a RINO for supporting a ban on assault weapons?


Reagan was a liberal.


DON'T FEED THE TROLL!
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby shafnutz05 on Wed Jan 16, 2013 10:05 pm

I'm happy Reagan was a supporter of environmental causes (within reason). You can be a conservationist without adhering to the radical environmentalist agenda. I have no issue with that, or really any other stand he took. He had his flaws, he had his strengths, but overall I believe he was a solid president.
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby Shyster on Wed Jan 16, 2013 10:06 pm

columbia wrote:Don't shoot the messenger....as it were:

Joe Scarborough ‏@JoeNBC
Question of the night for GOP radicals: Do you consider Ronald Reagan a RINO for supporting a ban on assault weapons?

Reagan signed onto a form letter supporting the 1994 AWB in May 1994. He revealed that he had been diagnosed with Alzheimer’s disease six months later. I question his mental competency at the time.
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby columbia on Wed Jan 16, 2013 10:06 pm

lol
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby shafnutz05 on Wed Jan 16, 2013 10:08 pm

Well, in all fairness, shouldn't that come into play? I've seen several links in this thread talking about Reagan suffering from the effects of Alzheimer's years prior to that, even during his term in office.

It goes both ways, ya know....
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby columbia on Wed Jan 16, 2013 10:11 pm

The NRA is systematically marginalizing itself these days...but, hey, keep it up if they think will achieve something.
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby shafnutz05 on Wed Jan 16, 2013 10:13 pm

The NRA's membership has increased in the last month or two by about a quarter million people
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby columbia on Wed Jan 16, 2013 10:15 pm

shafnutz05 wrote:The NRA's membership has increased in the last month or two by about a quarter million people


And public opinion for assault weapon bans has increased by about 20%.

The NRA acts just like any other fringe group: create fear and rake in the cash (for the gun industry).
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby shafnutz05 on Wed Jan 16, 2013 10:18 pm

The 2nd Amendment is part of the Constitution. Although many people say it is outdated, it's still there.

As tifosi said earlier, you want to change it? Strike the amendment out of the Constitution via the traditional process.
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby columbia on Wed Jan 16, 2013 10:19 pm

shafnutz05 wrote:The 2nd Amendment is part of the Constitution. Although many people say it is outdated, it's still there.

As tifosi said earlier, you want to change it? Strike the amendment out of the Constitution via the traditional process.


That's not what we're talking about.
The NRA is fundamentally damaging their own purported cause.
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby shafnutz05 on Wed Jan 16, 2013 10:22 pm

Time will tell what damage the NRA has caused. Truth be told, I am more disgusted by the state reaction (NY) to Sandy Hook then the federal reaction.

But honestly...one of the reasons the NRA was excoriated was they recommended armed guards in schools. They were ridiculed for that. Yet now, President Obama has signed an executive order strongly encouraging this.
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby Shyster on Wed Jan 16, 2013 10:27 pm

columbia wrote:And public opinion for assault weapon bans has increased by about 20%.

The NRA acts just like any other fringe group: create fear and rake in the cash (for the gun industry).

Considering that not did the President today express his wish for a new assault-weapons ban, but multiple states have introduced new legislation on that subject (and even passed it already in the case of New York), how can it be said that he NRA is “creating fear” in this case? When someone says right to your face that “I want to do so-and-so,” and it’s not out of the realm of possibility that they could in fact accomplish that task, how is it “fear” to take action based on that possibility?

Any why is it bad for law-abiding gun owners to be cleaning out gun stores? If people are buying from gun shops, we know all of those sales are going to people who passed a background check. Plenty of guns and ammunition are made in the United States (even a lot of foreign gun companies manufacture their products here), and that means jobs and money for Americans. Do people get freaked out when Apple has lines around the block and “rakes in the cash” on a new phone or tablet?
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby Pitt87 on Wed Jan 16, 2013 10:30 pm

Factorial wrote:
Pitt87 wrote:Just looked at my first paycheck of the new year an wanted thank our President for the pay cut today. No tax increases on middle class didn't even last long enough to be inaugurated for a second term.


What short memories people have. The GOP House was against extending the payroll tax holiday to 2012 but it made it through eventually and neither the Democrats or the GOP had plans to extend it in 2013.


No need to be indirect, but you should be sure you fully understand my comment before you assume I was referring to the payroll tax... I consider myself a pretty meticulous tax planner, so I was prepared for a check-based increase. What I was not prepared for was virtually no consideration in the middle-income rates. It is this administrations' tax policy, that, over the last 4 years, has targeted those that they claim to protect. Payroll tax is one component of the total tax that Barack Obama committed both before and after the election -- check the tape, to use his words -- to rallying his party around the in support of the middle class' 'share', only to completely abandon them in negotiations. As a result, revenues are up, spending cuts have been suspended, and everyone with a job, even those that are careful tax planners like myself, have a nice wet chunk taken out of their gross pay with little recourse to make up the deficit.... at least those that have higher rates aren't impacted until their first quarter payment is due...

Publicly, he espoused a commitment to cutting total taxes on 160 million Americans in the 'middle class', yet he managed to levy an immediate cashflow out of those paychecks immediately, while artfully neglecting to resolve the tax issue for the group that can least likely absorb a 2% tax hike.
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby columbia on Wed Jan 16, 2013 10:31 pm

Shyster wrote:
columbia wrote:And public opinion for assault weapon bans has increased by about 20%.

The NRA acts just like any other fringe group: create fear and rake in the cash (for the gun industry).

Considering that not did the President today express his wish for a new assault-weapons ban, but multiple states have introduced new legislation on that subject (and even passed it already in the case of New York), how can it be said that he NRA is “creating fear” in this case? When someone says right to your face that “I want to do so-and-so,” and it’s not out of the realm of possibility that they could in fact accomplish that task, how is it “fear” to take action based on that possibility?

Any why is it bad for law-abiding gun owners to be cleaning out gun stores? If people are buying from gun shops, we know all of those sales are going to people who passed a background check. Plenty of guns and ammunition are made in the United States (even a lot of foreign gun companies manufacture their products here), and that means jobs and money for Americans. Do people get freaked out when Apple has lines around the block and “rakes in the cash” on a new phone or tablet?


You're exactly the type of member they rely on.
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby Shyster on Wed Jan 16, 2013 10:37 pm

columbia wrote:You're exactly the type of member they rely on.

Please explain.
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby columbia on Wed Jan 16, 2013 10:40 pm

No matter now much they ratchet up the rhetoric, you're even more on board.

It's incredibly counter productive for actually preserving the 2nd Amendment.
Scalia laid out the appropriate argument in Heller, but has openly acknowledged in interviews that there is room for limits.
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