Why isn't Dustin Jeffrey getting a chance with Geno?

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Re: Why isn't Dustin Jeffrey getting a chance with Geno?

Postby joopen on Fri Jan 18, 2013 12:31 pm

Defence21 wrote:
joopen wrote:Isn't that the reason he is a 3rd liner and not top 6? If he was consistant with his goal scoring he would have already been promoted to the top 6. No one is saying he is a great player but he's good at his role. Forecheck, cycle, provide some secondary scoring, be responsible defensively and provide energy. He does all of that. Don't expect him to be Chris Kunitz. Take him for what he is, a 3rd liner, and all the sudden you realize what type of value he brings to the table in that role.

Meh. He does all of that...sometimes. When Kennedy is confident, he's a borderline second line winger. When Kennedy is lacking confidence, he's a borderline NHL'er. Combine the two, and he's a third liner. He is a tenacious forechecker when he wants to be. He is good at the cycle when he wants to be. He does provide secondary scoring in spurts. He is average, at best, defensively, and benefits mostly from his speed and having two very defense-minded linemates. And he does provide a lot of energy.

By no means would I want Jeffrey over him -- but I certainly won't be too sad if/when he is replaced.


Oh I agree he is absolutely replacable. The funny thing is, for all of the average at best he gets about his defense, you never watch a goal against and say "man wtf was Kennedy doing?". Now that's mostly because he isn't asked to do the heavy lifting defensively but he never seems to be making costly mistakes in that end of the ice. He is a 3rd liner who is only making $2M. Can't really be too upset with what you get for that price.
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Re: Why isn't Dustin Jeffrey getting a chance with Geno?

Postby Idoit40fans on Fri Jan 18, 2013 12:32 pm

I feel like the Pens would miss Kennedy's ~20 goals like they missed Ouellet's. A lot.
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Re: Why isn't Dustin Jeffrey getting a chance with Geno?

Postby Froggy on Fri Jan 18, 2013 12:37 pm

Ouelette was also on a line with Geno and Staal, and got like half those goals on the power play.

Kennedy's even strength contributions are way under appreciated
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Re: Why isn't Dustin Jeffrey getting a chance with Geno?

Postby Idoit40fans on Fri Jan 18, 2013 12:40 pm

Froggy wrote:Ouelette was also on a line with Geno and Staal, and got like half those goals on the power play.

Kennedy's even strength contributions are way under appreciated


I really don't think there are. I think the majority of people think he adds a lot more than he does. I think the reality is much closer to him being pretty replaceable, but there is no reason to get rid of him because he has a cap friendly contract and you take him over someone you don't know that can provide the same thing.

EDIT(the added part): Kennedy's contributions can be measured pretty reliably straight from his numbers. Thats not really a knock on him, but when compared to other bottom line guys who are contributing in other ways, its a step down.
Last edited by Idoit40fans on Fri Jan 18, 2013 12:43 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Why isn't Dustin Jeffrey getting a chance with Geno?

Postby Froggy on Fri Jan 18, 2013 12:42 pm

I actually agree with most of that.
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Re: Why isn't Dustin Jeffrey getting a chance with Geno?

Postby Defence21 on Fri Jan 18, 2013 12:43 pm

joopen wrote:
Defence21 wrote:
joopen wrote:Isn't that the reason he is a 3rd liner and not top 6? If he was consistant with his goal scoring he would have already been promoted to the top 6. No one is saying he is a great player but he's good at his role. Forecheck, cycle, provide some secondary scoring, be responsible defensively and provide energy. He does all of that. Don't expect him to be Chris Kunitz. Take him for what he is, a 3rd liner, and all the sudden you realize what type of value he brings to the table in that role.

Meh. He does all of that...sometimes. When Kennedy is confident, he's a borderline second line winger. When Kennedy is lacking confidence, he's a borderline NHL'er. Combine the two, and he's a third liner. He is a tenacious forechecker when he wants to be. He is good at the cycle when he wants to be. He does provide secondary scoring in spurts. He is average, at best, defensively, and benefits mostly from his speed and having two very defense-minded linemates. And he does provide a lot of energy.

By no means would I want Jeffrey over him -- but I certainly won't be too sad if/when he is replaced.


Oh I agree he is absolutely replacable. The funny thing is, for all of the average at best he gets about his defense, you never watch a goal against and say "man wtf was Kennedy doing?". Now that's mostly because he isn't asked to do the heavy lifting defensively but he never seems to be making costly mistakes in that end of the ice. He is a 3rd liner who is only making $2M. Can't really be too upset with what you get for that price.

Not at all. I'm not a Kennedy fan, but certainly understand his value to the team on the third line. Personally, though, I would like to see a bigger player in that role to add an element of toughness. I think I'd be willing to sacrifice a few of those 20 goals for a more intimidating presence. Who knows, maybe Glass proves capable of that role before long. Maybe not, too.
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Re: Why isn't Dustin Jeffrey getting a chance with Geno?

Postby pcm on Fri Jan 18, 2013 1:31 pm

Agree with Defense, as Kennedy's contributions seem to drop off a lot in the playoffs. A bigger tougher player can usually contribute more in a long post season run.
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Re: Why isn't Dustin Jeffrey getting a chance with Geno?

Postby bh on Fri Jan 18, 2013 1:39 pm

I don't love or hate TK but you would be hard pressed to replace him with anything better or equal for the same $$$. He does his job effectively. I liked what I saw of DJ a few years ago but he has a lot to prove and he certainly has to do that before you'd replace Kennedy with him.
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Re: Why isn't Dustin Jeffrey getting a chance with Geno?

Postby shmenguin on Fri Jan 18, 2013 2:33 pm

pcm wrote:Agree with Defense, as Kennedy's contributions seem to drop off a lot in the playoffs.


that's a fairly baseless statement
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Re: Why isn't Dustin Jeffrey getting a chance with Geno?

Postby MRandall25 on Fri Jan 18, 2013 2:37 pm

shmenguin wrote:
pcm wrote:Agree with Defense, as Kennedy's contributions seem to drop off a lot in the playoffs.


that's a fairly baseless statement


Yeah, I'm not TK's biggest fan, but there's no denying his contribution to the 2009 Cup Final series.
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Re: Why isn't Dustin Jeffrey getting a chance with Geno?

Postby shmenguin on Fri Jan 18, 2013 2:39 pm

or last year, where even his avid haters were saying how good of a series he had.

he wasn't good in 2010, but he was also injured during the playoffs (even though draftnik always accused him of faking it).
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Re: Why isn't Dustin Jeffrey getting a chance with Geno?

Postby sil on Fri Jan 18, 2013 2:45 pm

I view TK as one of those players that is consistently able to elevate his game in the playoffs...which is probably one of the reasons he's been sticking around. For all his shortcomings, guy is the definition of hustle.
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Re: Why isn't Dustin Jeffrey getting a chance with Geno?

Postby DudeMan2766 on Fri Jan 18, 2013 2:50 pm

MRandall25 wrote:
shmenguin wrote:
pcm wrote:Agree with Defense, as Kennedy's contributions seem to drop off a lot in the playoffs.


that's a fairly baseless statement


Yeah, I'm not TK's biggest fan, but there's no denying his contribution to the 2009 Cup Final series.


Yeah i didnt get that either. He's scored some big playoff goals. Even in the 09 Flyers series he had some timely go ahead goals. lol I still always am amazed, down 3-2 in the Finals, we only scored 4 goals the rest of the way, TK, and Max Talbot were 3 and we won the Cup. Incredible
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Re: Why isn't Dustin Jeffrey getting a chance with Geno?

Postby pcm on Fri Jan 18, 2013 2:52 pm

shmenguin wrote:
pcm wrote:Agree with Defense, as Kennedy's contributions seem to drop off a lot in the playoffs.


that's a fairly baseless statement


I didn't cite data, but since you ask for it... He's a .5 ppg player during the reg season. That drops to .3 during the playoffs. Comparing him to recent linemates Staal and Cooke, his playoff production drops 40%, wheres Cooke and Staal only drop @ 15%. I'm not saying he's worthless, but his greatest asset is as mikey calls him, a static producer. When that production becomes limited in the playoffs, his value as a 3rd liner is greatly diminished.

And just for comparison, Cooke's a better playoff performer than Kennedy. I'd rather add another guy like him who's not quite a .5 ppg player during the reg season, but brings toughness, PK ability, and doesn't drop off quite so much in the playoffs. Or even if he does, brings other intangibles to the table.
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Re: Why isn't Dustin Jeffrey getting a chance with Geno?

Postby Paekman on Fri Jan 18, 2013 2:54 pm

TK is an energy guy, and surprisingly, the Penguins aren't really overflowing with that kind of player these days. That, combined with his consistent contribution, seems to justify his salary and place on the team.
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Re: Why isn't Dustin Jeffrey getting a chance with Geno?

Postby shmenguin on Fri Jan 18, 2013 3:05 pm

pcm wrote:
shmenguin wrote:
pcm wrote:Agree with Defense, as Kennedy's contributions seem to drop off a lot in the playoffs.


that's a fairly baseless statement


I didn't cite data, but since you ask for it... He's a .5 ppg player during the reg season. That drops to .3 during the playoffs. Comparing him to recent linemates Staal and Cooke, his playoff production drops 40%, wheres Cooke and Staal only drop @ 15%. I'm not saying he's worthless, but his greatest asset is as mikey calls him, a static producer. When that production becomes limited in the playoffs, his value as a 3rd liner is greatly diminished.

And just for comparison, Cooke's a better playoff performer than Kennedy. I'd rather add another guy like him who's not quite a .5 ppg player during the reg season, but brings toughness, PK ability, and doesn't drop off quite so much in the playoffs. Or even if he does, brings other intangibles to the table.


oh jesus christ...your numbers include the 20 playoff games when he was a rookie. matt cooke didn't even get a playoff point until he was 23 years old. if he had 20 games as a rookie, his point totals would have been atrocious.

if you think cooke is a better playoff performer, you need to keep your arguments in the abstract. bringing stats into the mix isn't going to do you any favors.
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Re: Why isn't Dustin Jeffrey getting a chance with Geno?

Postby pcm on Fri Jan 18, 2013 3:14 pm

Absolutely I'd rather have Cooke on my team than Kennedy in the playoffs. Nothing abstract about that. He's consistent, that's the thing; he's not going to go invisible, as Kennedy has. I'm not knocking Kennedy's contributions. He's scored some big goals for us, and his value for his role is right on par with what it needs to be. But I also think he can be upgraded.
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Re: Why isn't Dustin Jeffrey getting a chance with Geno?

Postby canaan on Fri Jan 18, 2013 3:16 pm

pcm wrote:Absolutely I'd rather have Cooke on my team than Kennedy in the playoffs. Nothing abstract about that. He's consistent, that's the thing; he's not going to go invisible, as Kennedy has. I'm not knocking Kennedy's contributions. He's scored some big goals for us, and his value for his role is right on par with what it needs to be. But I also think he can be upgraded.

i thought cooke was pretty invisible in the flyers series.
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Re: Why isn't Dustin Jeffrey getting a chance with Geno?

Postby Idoit40fans on Fri Jan 18, 2013 6:09 pm

If I had to win 1 game right now and had one spot to fill and could put Kennedy or Cooke in it, no matter where in the roster it was, I'd take Cooke. Would you disagree?
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