Official 2012-13 Pirates Off-Season Thread

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Re: Official 2012-13 Pirates Off-Season Thread

Postby PhantomJB93 on Sun Jan 20, 2013 2:31 pm

Michael Bourn sure would be nice, if he could play a corner spot he'd fill our leadoff need and add another legitimate bat, but to come to Pittsburgh he'd need to be given a ridiculous contract. If he already turned down a 13+ mil one year deal from the Braves, imagine what it would cost to convince him to cost here?

As for the rest of our offseason, I don't know what more you could have asked for. Russell Martin may not be Joe Mauer but he was the best option out there. We could have easily just rolled McKenry out there or resigned Barajas, but we actually spent the money to get the top FA at that position. And he can throw out basestealers, or better than what we had last year at least. I was not a huge fan of the Hammer trade but I understand why they did it and we did get a decent return for him, but yes if I were in charge I probably would have just held on to him. But that's the only area of this team that may be noticeably worse, and closers are a dime a dozen, at least, we've shown the ability to find good closers consistently.
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Re: Official 2012-13 Pirates Off-Season Thread

Postby ulf on Sun Jan 20, 2013 2:45 pm

ville5 wrote:1. Keep Hammer.
2. Sign Bourn
3. Trade for 1 of Morales/Morse
4. Sign 2 FA pitchers with at least winning records.
5. Catcher than can throw a dam base stealer out.
But hey, that'd require spending $$$. And everyone but the sheeple know that's not happening.

1. Disagree - Grilli will do fine at closer. Could we have gotten more for Hammer? Maybe, but I don't think keeping him was a great option.
2. We have a CF, you may have heard of Andrew McCutchen. And before you say it, no, Bourn would not sign in Pittsburgh to play corner OF.
3. Morales = another Jones.. Morse, okay. Who would we give up? Are we turning force trades off?
4. Easier said than done. Unfortunately money in a Pittsburgh market is an actual constraint and not just something to complain about. Names?
5. We got the best catcher on the market. As much as I'd like Huntington to clone Buster Posey and sign him, some things aren't possible yet.

I don't think every move the Pirates make is good, but come on man. There isn't one position on the field that I would say we really downgraded at. Maybe setup man.
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Re: Official 2012-13 Pirates Off-Season Thread

Postby ville5 on Sun Jan 20, 2013 3:07 pm

I can almost guarantee certain people in this thread will be the 1st to ***** WHEN Grilli falters. There's a reason he was in the minors in his mid 30s.
Closers are dime a dozen, fine. But if the best return you can get for your all-star is questionable, pass. Sands might be another Pearce. Pay the $7 mil and deal with Hammer closer to the deadline.
Off the top of my head, Joe Saunders has a winning record. And his slightly above 4 era should drop to an acceptable level in the NL. And I don't have rest of FA list in front of me to see who was/is available. And too much of a pain to get on my phone.
Bourn will play for whoever pays him.
Of course the Bucs will never have a $200 million payroll. But they are never gonna win anything with a $50 million one.
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Re: Official 2012-13 Pirates Off-Season Thread

Postby the errey i breathe on Sun Jan 20, 2013 7:01 pm

Rocco wrote:
ville5 wrote:
Rocco wrote:Isn't improving the catcher position, even if it's a slight upgrade (and it's actually about a 2-win upgrade according to WAR), something to improve the team?

Negligible.
Do you think this team makes playoffs? Finish over .500?


There's not one position that's obviously been downgraded from last year's team. They're still one starting pitcher short and they need someone out of the Snider/Sands/Sanchez/Robinson group to develop. But since they didn't sign Hamilton they're incompetent.

Aside from being one SP short I think it's about time they see if guys like Locke & McPherson sink or swim over a full season. They need to give these guys a chance.
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Re: Official 2012-13 Pirates Off-Season Thread

Postby Rocco on Sun Jan 20, 2013 7:26 pm

Signing Bourn would cost the Pirates their 1st round pick. Same with Kyle Lohse. If not for that both guys would be off the market already.
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Re: Official 2012-13 Pirates Off-Season Thread

Postby ville5 on Sun Jan 20, 2013 7:37 pm

All the better to drive his price down. Besides, they can't develop their picks anyway. And have an extra one.
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Re: Official 2012-13 Pirates Off-Season Thread

Postby ulf on Sun Jan 20, 2013 7:39 pm

He turned down a 13 million dollar offer to play CF in Atlanta. We'd probably have to offer 20 to get him to come here and play corner OF. Not only is that too much for the pirates, there's a point where he isn't even worth it.
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Re: Official 2012-13 Pirates Off-Season Thread

Postby Rocco on Sun Jan 20, 2013 7:42 pm

If it devalued Bourn that much he would have signed by now. He wants to get paid.
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Re: Official 2012-13 Pirates Off-Season Thread

Postby ville5 on Sun Jan 20, 2013 11:12 pm

Rocco wrote:If it devalued Bourn that much he would have signed by now. He wants to get paid.

Other way around. Bourn and Borass thought he'd make more than Atlanta offered. But noones gonna pay over $13 mil and give up a 1st.
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Re: Official 2012-13 Pirates Off-Season Thread

Postby Rylan on Mon Jan 21, 2013 12:22 am

Lol nice
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Re: Official 2012-13 Pirates Off-Season Thread

Postby beerman on Mon Jan 21, 2013 9:09 am

ville5 wrote:
Rocco wrote:If it devalued Bourn that much he would have signed by now. He wants to get paid.

Other way around. Bourn and Borass thought he'd make more than Atlanta offered. But noones gonna pay over $13 mil and give up a 1st.


Kinda like Soriano would be devalued so much he'd have to take a small deal, until Washington gave him $14/yr just last week? Face it Boras knows what he's doing, every year he has one or two guys that last this far into the offseason and he still always gets them a great deal.
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Re: Official 2012-13 Pirates Off-Season Thread

Postby Idoit40fans on Mon Jan 21, 2013 9:12 am

Exactly, when was the last time a Boras client had to "settle" for anything? There is a reason everyone hates him, powerful agent. He's also the reason Atlanta had such an easy time letting him go.
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Re: Official 2012-13 Pirates Off-Season Thread

Postby Rocco on Mon Jan 21, 2013 4:18 pm

Ken Rosenthal ‏@Ken_Rosenthal
Sources: #Pirates, Liriano have adjusted and finalized 2-year agreement. Liriano will assume risk due to injury to right (non-throwing) arm.


Ken Rosenthal ‏@Ken_Rosenthal
If Liriano misses no time due to specific right arm injury, he still gets original $12.75M. First-year salary would reduce if he misses time
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Re: Official 2012-13 Pirates Off-Season Thread

Postby Rocco on Mon Jan 21, 2013 4:21 pm

ville5 wrote:I can almost guarantee certain people in this thread will be the 1st to ***** WHEN Grilli falters. There's a reason he was in the minors in his mid 30s.
Closers are dime a dozen, fine. But if the best return you can get for your all-star is questionable, pass. Sands might be another Pearce. Pay the $7 mil and deal with Hammer closer to the deadline.
Off the top of my head, Joe Saunders has a winning record. And his slightly above 4 era should drop to an acceptable level in the NL. And I don't have rest of FA list in front of me to see who was/is available. And too much of a pain to get on my phone.
Bourn will play for whoever pays him.
Of course the Bucs will never have a $200 million payroll. But they are never gonna win anything with a $50 million one.


Joe Saunders has been in the NL for the last 3 years. His ERA in the NL was over 4 for 2 of the 3 and he hasn't had a winning record since he left the Angels (though I am obligated to point out evaluating a pitcher by his record is dumb). The Pirates already had Saunders and let him go- his name was Kevin Correia.

There's also a logical disconnect between saying closers are a dime a dozen and advocating paying one who wasn't that great last year $7M.
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Re: Official 2012-13 Pirates Off-Season Thread

Postby Mr. Colby on Mon Jan 21, 2013 5:09 pm

So Liriano is in? Wow, I really like our rotation right now. Provides flexibility for A) injury, B) somebody sucking, C) a young guy seizing a rotation spot (PGJK can move to Bullpen)

Burnett-Juan D-J Mac-Liriano-PGJK

Not bad at all...
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Re: Official 2012-13 Pirates Off-Season Thread

Postby viva la ben on Mon Jan 21, 2013 5:17 pm

Best rotation in baseball.....six years ago
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Re: Official 2012-13 Pirates Off-Season Thread

Postby Mr. Colby on Mon Jan 21, 2013 5:22 pm

viva la ben wrote:Best rotation in baseball.....six years ago


I guess I should say I really like our rotation right now comparative to prior seasons... I don't like it compared to the Nationals or anything like that
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Re: Official 2012-13 Pirates Off-Season Thread

Postby Mr. Colby on Mon Jan 21, 2013 5:23 pm

Anyway, looks like there's only 1 pitching spot available, if you assume Leroux and Morris make the team (which I am) and there are no injuries.

It would go to Locke, Mcpherson, J. Wilson, Mazzaro, Stewart, Oliver, or Welker probably
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Re: Official 2012-13 Pirates Off-Season Thread

Postby viva la ben on Mon Jan 21, 2013 5:46 pm

If the rotation can hold up it will be much better than previous seasons.
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Re: Official 2012-13 Pirates Off-Season Thread

Postby KennyTheKangaroo on Mon Jan 21, 2013 6:03 pm

viva la ben wrote:If the rotation can hold up it will be much better than previous seasons.


Edited to stress the serious importance of this word when concerning the pirates rotation and health.
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Re: Official 2012-13 Pirates Off-Season Thread

Postby schreibdog on Mon Jan 21, 2013 7:17 pm

Mr. Colby wrote:Anyway, looks like there's only 1 pitching spot available, if you assume Leroux and Morris make the team (which I am) and there are no injuries.

It would go to Locke, Mcpherson, J. Wilson, Mazzaro, Stewart, Oliver, or Welker probably


You can bet your house that ML options will play a huge part in that last bullpen spot...

# Minor League Options remaining:
Mazzaro: 0
McPherson: 1
Oliver: 1
Locke: 2
Wilson: 2
Welker: 2
Zach Stewart was DFA'd so he's out. I think he was designated to make room for PGJK.

My money's on Mazzaro regardless of his spring training performance.


EDIT: There are 8 guys going for a 7-man bullpen: Grilli, Melancon, Leroux, Watson, Hughes, Morris, Mazzaro, Gomez. Watson and Hughes are the only guys left with options, so I wouldn't be too surprised if Hughes actually gets sent down, even though he should be up with the big club.
Last edited by schreibdog on Mon Jan 21, 2013 7:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Official 2012-13 Pirates Off-Season Thread

Postby schreibdog on Mon Jan 21, 2013 7:22 pm

ville5 wrote:Of course the Bucs will never have a $200 million payroll. But they are never gonna win anything with a $50 million one.


Their payroll is going to be right around $70 million (which includes 13.5 mill in credits for Burnett and Wandy...total player salary is going to be around $83M). Still not great, but it's a start.
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Re: Official 2012-13 Pirates Off-Season Thread

Postby Mr. Colby on Mon Jan 21, 2013 8:06 pm

There's absolutely 0 chance Hughes gets sent down. I don't think they'll care about Mazzaro's lack of options because he's not that good anyway.

I forgot about Jeanshorts Gomez - does he have options?

In my mind there are 5 definites - Grilli, Melancon, Watson, Hughes, Morris, and 1 most likely - Leroux
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Re: Official 2012-13 Pirates Off-Season Thread

Postby Bowser on Mon Jan 21, 2013 8:49 pm

This is the best rotation the Pirates have fielded in years... on paper.

Rotation: Burnett - Rodriguez - McDonald - Liriano - Karstens
Depth: Locke - McPherson - Wilson - Mazzaro - Gomez - Oliver - Irwin and by June with Cole and Morton

Bullpen: Grilli - Melancon - Hughes - Morris - Leroux - Watson
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Re: Official 2012-13 Pirates Off-Season Thread

Postby ulf on Mon Jan 21, 2013 11:54 pm

Yeah but they didn't sign Hamilton and Greinke! Bobbleheads and fireworks you sheep!
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