#8 - still elite

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#8 - still elite

Postby Mr. Colby on Sat Feb 09, 2013 12:56 pm

After watching that Pens-Caps game the other night, it's easy to see this guy is still elite.

I'm starting to feel bad for him - his teammates are holding him back. Backstrom has been a complete ghost, and even though he and Ribeiro get points, they are soft as all hell. He was the only one from Washington that showed up in that game - without question.

Granted he's not in the same class as Geno and Sid, but he's still top-5.

I think what AO misses is somebody to free up space for him and win 1-on-1 puck battles. His shot is absolutely lethal, but teams have adjusted to his game and taken away a lot of the opportunity for him to create his own scoring chances.

I know NBC the other night pretty much tore into him for being too predictable, and they're right, but it looks like he has no help out there. Backstrom isn't the answer anymore - he hasn't been the same since Rene Bourque drilled him.

Anyway - I know we Pens fans love to watch AO crash and burn, but I think there's more to it than just him. McPhee needs to find somebody asap with some guts and some talent to play on that line, and the 2 centers he has ain't it. Neither is Wolski.
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Re: #8 - still elite

Postby Tico Rick on Sat Feb 09, 2013 1:18 pm

Having 3 coaches in 2 years hasn't helped, but I think his biggest problem, as many have pointed out, is that other teams figured out his game and he hasn't adjusted. This is in stark contrast to Crosby, who spends each summer improving some aspect of his game. The only one to blame for that is Ovie himself.

Frankly, I don't care if he crashes and burns. I've seen him play the game way too wrecklessly too many times to have any sympathy for him.
Last edited by Tico Rick on Sat Feb 09, 2013 1:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: #8 - still elite

Postby Desiato on Sat Feb 09, 2013 1:20 pm

What makes a player elite is consistently producing at a high level, even with bad teammates; not looking good while not producing. But I disagree that the Caps have a personnel issue.

AO's problem has always been discipline. He hits when he shouldn't, shoots when he shouldn't and seems to do whatever he wants on the ice. It's all about him.

IMO, he needs to lose 15-20lbs to regain quickness, diversify his game, and attempt fewer big hits because they don't usually seem to help his team.

Do you think Malkin and Crosby don't have big hit potential if they focused on it as much as he does? Their focus is on staying in position to better play their role.
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Re: #8 - still elite

Postby muffinarm on Sat Feb 09, 2013 1:25 pm

This guy is not elite at all any more. Zero five on five goals. Take away that poaching move from the left circle on the PP and what do you get? He floats and as always with Ovechkin, it's always all about him. He can't play worth a salt in his own end, he pouts and is now on his third coach in two years. He still tries his patented "leave my skates to deliver a cheap shot" punk stuff - he tried to nail Glass last game. The days of him taking games over are finished.
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Re: #8 - still elite

Postby canaan on Sat Feb 09, 2013 1:51 pm

muffinarm wrote:Zero five on five goals.

Malkin only has one. its a silly metric this early in a shortened, strange season. Ovechkin has world class talent and should still be considered elite. that being said, his team sucks.
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Re: #8 - still elite

Postby Tim Thomasen on Sat Feb 09, 2013 2:34 pm

canaan wrote:
muffinarm wrote:Zero five on five goals.

Malkin only has one. its a silly metric this early in a shortened, strange season. Ovechkin has world class talent and should still be considered elite. that being said, his team sucks.


His production has been trailing off for awhile. People didn't just start questioning him yesturday, this has been going on for awhile. I don't consider him elite. To be concidered elite is to be able to elevate your game despite having bad teammates and adjust your game when teams have figured you out. He's has done none of that and the fact when he's on the ice he just looks like a lost person. The D has a easier time shutting him down, his passes and shots leads to nowhere and sometimes when he's buzzing around the ice with the puck it leads to nowhere. At one point he was concidered him world class but these days with how he's been playing lately I just don't see it. He can throw his weight around all he wants, but he's there to score and elevate his team and he hasn't done that.

So no, I don't think he's elite and I certainly don't feel sorry for him at all. You go around taking cheap shots at others, you get what you deserve.
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Re: #8 - still elite

Postby Rylan on Sat Feb 09, 2013 2:47 pm

He had what, 38 goals last year?
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Re: #8 - still elite

Postby shmenguin on Sat Feb 09, 2013 4:48 pm

He's still one of the best wings in the game, he's just not nearly the player he once was.
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Re: #8 - still elite

Postby Desiato on Sat Feb 09, 2013 9:29 pm

I guess this depends on what you mean by elite. Whatever your definition may be, he's not producing at the same level as before. And I think it's safe to say he's been out of most top ten player discussions the past year.

To me, an elite player produces consistently, regardless of coach and linemates. Mario, Jagr--with the Pens at least--and Sid are obvious examples. I didn't like AO's team game his first few seasons, but obviously he once fit this definition too.
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Re: #8 - still elite

Postby Fire0nice228 on Sun Feb 10, 2013 8:22 am

Furthermore, you watched one AO game. Pens Caps. A game he can actually get emotionally involved in because he still has the Crosby/Ovechkin pipe dream running through his head. Most Caps games I watch I feel he's not nearly as noticeable as he was in the two Pens games this week. That being said, the dude has 49 shots in 12 games this season. Someone else put it perfectly, hes one of the best wingers in the game, but not nearly what he once was when he was dominant. Hes maybe barely top 10 in the league now.
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Re: #8 - still elite

Postby Idoit40fans on Sun Feb 10, 2013 10:55 am

Watching him the other day actually finally pushed me to believing that he is no longer elite. I was on the bandwagon long after it got empty and I was definitely wrong. He is not an elite player. His game has not evolved at all since 2005.
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Re: #8 - still elite

Postby ILikeTurtles on Sun Feb 10, 2013 2:08 pm

I agree, #8 is still elite
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Re: #8 - still elite

Postby Malkamaniac on Mon Feb 11, 2013 12:08 pm

He's only elite when he plays the Pens. The guy doesn't give that kind of effort night in and night out.
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Re: #8 - still elite

Postby Pitt87 on Mon Feb 11, 2013 10:02 pm

Just looked at the standings. Caps last in the league.
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Re: #8 - still elite

Postby Penspal on Tue Feb 12, 2013 11:46 am

If Ovie is no longer elite, its his own fault.

GR8 not playing with his "normal" center is affecting him, as was the experiment playing on his off wing. Oates will get it figured out eventually, but its likely already too late for them this season.

Malkamaniac... The thought of Ovechkin in a Pens sweater made me LOL.
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Re: #8 - still elite

Postby Idoit40fans on Tue Feb 12, 2013 11:52 am

^wut?
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Re: #8 - still elite

Postby Troy Loney on Tue Feb 12, 2013 12:58 pm

john steigerwald wrote:He was juicing
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Re: #8 - still elite

Postby Pavel Bure on Tue Feb 12, 2013 1:04 pm

Fire0nice228 wrote:Furthermore, you watched one AO game. Pens Caps. A game he can actually get emotionally involved in because he still has the Crosby/Ovechkin pipe dream running through his head. Most Caps games I watch I feel he's not nearly as noticeable as he was in the two Pens games this week. That being said, the dude has 49 shots in 12 games this season. Someone else put it perfectly, hes one of the best wingers in the game, but not nearly what he once was when he was dominant. Hes maybe barely top 10 in the league now.

Sid
Geno
Stamkos

After those 3 I have a hard time putting people ahead of Ovi. Guys like Kane, Hossa, Benn etc. I have a real hard time putting ahead of Ovi.
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Re: #8 - still elite

Postby mikey287 on Tue Feb 12, 2013 1:17 pm

Jamie Benn gets mentioned before Claude Giroux?
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Re: #8 - still elite

Postby MarioLives on Tue Feb 12, 2013 1:22 pm

As much as I dislike OV and the Caps. They will still win the division. OV has goals in his last few games, including an even strength one. For as bad as they are playing, their division is horrible. I am tired of the OV talk only because he is a dangerous player who NEVER gets called by the refs or handled by players on the ice. Has he ever been challenged to defend himself in a fight? Why he gets a free pass on the ice is what makes me dislike him the most.

I never like when the Pens play the Caps....I always worry about OV injuring someone.
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Re: #8 - still elite

Postby MRandall25 on Tue Feb 12, 2013 1:22 pm

10 players I'd rather have than Ovie

Sid
Geno
Neal
Stamkos
Hossa
Kane
Toews
Giroux
Selanne
Datsyuk

... and I could probably name 5-10 more.
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Re: #8 - still elite

Postby Pavel Bure on Tue Feb 12, 2013 1:23 pm

mikey287 wrote:Jamie Benn gets mentioned before Claude Giroux?

Just goin in my head. Guys like that I put on par with Ovi talent wise.
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Re: #8 - still elite

Postby RxBandit66 on Tue Feb 12, 2013 3:46 pm

We seemed to be having this discussion about Geno when he seemed to be skating in a fog for a few seasons after the 2009 Cup run. Then he broke out again last season. Ovy will never have statistical seasons like he's had in the past; it's a more defensive-oriented league now and I think pharmacy was a big reason for his past success anyway.

The sad end for Ovechkin will occur over a long period of time, as players begin to enact revenge on him in the coming years for dirty hits he's accumulated on their teammates. He's lived by the sword and like Lindros before him, he will die by the sword. He'll undoubtedly have bright spots and maybe even put it all together again for a season or two, but it will be sideways and downward from here, probably a lot of nagging injuries as well as time progresses.
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Re: #8 - still elite

Postby Malkamaniac on Tue Feb 12, 2013 4:27 pm

RxBandit66 wrote:We seemed to be having this discussion about Geno when he seemed to be skating in a fog for a few seasons after the 2009 Cup run. Then he broke out again last season. Ovy will never have statistical seasons like he's had in the past; it's a more defensive-oriented league now and I think pharmacy was a big reason for his past success anyway.

The sad end for Ovechkin will occur over a long period of time, as players begin to enact revenge on him in the coming years for dirty hits he's accumulated on their teammates. He's lived by the sword and like Lindros before him, he will die by the sword. He'll undoubtedly have bright spots and maybe even put it all together again for a season or two, but it will be sideways and downward from here, probably a lot of nagging injuries as well as time progresses.


I remember only one foggy season and a torn ACL. Then his comeback? Yes?
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Re: #8 - still elite

Postby meow on Tue Feb 12, 2013 4:42 pm

He has elite talent, that's for sure. But is he an elite player? Ehhhh
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