Game 12 vs. NJ Devils - Thoughts from the morning after

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Game 12 vs. NJ Devils - Thoughts from the morning after

Postby Penspal on Sun Feb 10, 2013 10:14 am

Pens lose 3 -1

- Full credit to the Devils, but the Pens beat themselves
- The refs are consistently bad, so we can no longer blame them. Pens have to adjust their game (checks near wall are penalties)
- Devils have found their slow, boring, trapping game (oh what fun we have watching these games!)
- PK was fantastic, until it wasn't. MAF was solid.
- Botuzzo's falling down at least once a game continues. He's involved and physical, been a long time since Pens have had a Dman of that type
- Sutter looks like he's finding his game, but hard to play in when always on PK
- Good to see Engy remind Devils (and rest of the league) there are no freebies on Pens superstars
- If I were an opposing coach, I'd definitely be poking Geno more, he seems like he's just about to go off (Crazy Russian Madman Mode - CRAMM for short), let's hope not!!!
- I expect HCDB to make lineup changes, keep guys involved and rest some tired PK guys
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Re: Game 12 vs. NJ Devils - Thoughts from the morning after

Postby NJ5934 on Sun Feb 10, 2013 12:25 pm

Penspal wrote:Pens lose 3 -1

- Full credit to the Devils, but the Pens beat themselves
- The refs are consistently bad, so we can no longer blame them. Pens have to adjust their game (checks near wall are penalties)
- Devils have found their slow, boring, trapping game (oh what fun we have watching these games!)
- PK was fantastic, until it wasn't. MAF was solid.
- Botuzzo's falling down at least once a game continues. He's involved and physical, been a long time since Pens have had a Dman of that type
- Sutter looks like he's finding his game, but hard to play in when always on PK
- Good to see Engy remind Devils (and rest of the league) there are no freebies on Pens superstars
- If I were an opposing coach, I'd definitely be poking Geno more, he seems like he's just about to go off (Crazy Russian Madman Mode - CRAMM for short), let's hope not!!!
- I expect HCDB to make lineup changes, keep guys involved and rest some tired PK guys


I don't think the Devils trap at all, not anymore than we do anyway. As for the officiating, come on, I know it's contagious but it's lame. Yea, there were a couple of weak calls but the Pens played a solid first 15 minutes and then fell back on their heels and allowed the Devils to dominate. The Devils outskated them for most of the 2nd and 3rd. Add a couple of undisciplined moments and it should come as no surprise that the PP time was lopsided. I think the Pens were credited with 7 or 8 hits. That is probably a bit under reflected being in another building, but I didn't see much of anything after 3/4 of the 1st period.

On the positive: Fleury was solid. Boychuk is really doing all of the right things out there, it would be nice to see him put one in. Despres and Bortuzzo are looking confident and Bort in particular seems to get a lot of guys attention on the ice. Nice to see a Penguin getting under someone's skin out there.
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Re: Game 12 vs. NJ Devils - Thoughts from the morning after

Postby Luckybreak on Sun Feb 10, 2013 12:28 pm

Penspal wrote:Pens lose 3 -1

- Full credit to the Devils, but the Pens beat themselves
- The refs are consistently bad, so we can no longer blame them. Pens have to adjust their game (checks near wall are penalties)
- Devils have found their slow, boring, trapping game (oh what fun we have watching these games!)
- PK was fantastic, until it wasn't. MAF was solid.
- Botuzzo's falling down at least once a game continues. He's involved and physical, been a long time since Pens have had a Dman of that type
- Sutter looks like he's finding his game, but hard to play in when always on PK
- Good to see Engy remind Devils (and rest of the league) there are no freebies on Pens superstars
- If I were an opposing coach, I'd definitely be poking Geno more, he seems like he's just about to go off (Crazy Russian Madman Mode - CRAMM for short), let's hope not!!!
- I expect HCDB to make lineup changes, keep guys involved and rest some tired PK guys


-Refs have really suffered from the lockout, poor guys. Where was their sob story video?
-Geno has looked overly 'hyped' since the first game, needs to find some composure. WE GOTTA KEEP OUR COMPOSURE!
-Still loving Despres and Bortuzzo, the swagger and the grit are fun to watch. D holding it together despite lack of Letang and Nisky.
-PK was great but the penalties killed us, no momentum for Sid/Geno who both looked thrown off their game.
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Re: Game 12 vs. NJ Devils - Thoughts from the morning after

Postby malkinshair on Sun Feb 10, 2013 12:46 pm

NJ5934 wrote:I don't think the Devils trap at all, not anymore than we do anyway. As for the officiating, come on, I know it's contagious but it's lame. Yea, there were a couple of weak calls but the Pens played a solid first 15 minutes and then fell back on their heels and allowed the Devils to dominate. The Devils outskated them for most of the 2nd and 3rd. Add a couple of undisciplined moments and it should come as no surprise that the PP time was lopsided. I think the Pens were credited with 7 or 8 hits. That is probably a bit under reflected being in another building, but I didn't see much of anything after 3/4 of the 1st period.

On the positive: Fleury was solid. Boychuk is really doing all of the right things out there, it would be nice to see him put one in. Despres and Bortuzzo are looking confident and Bort in particular seems to get a lot of guys attention on the ice. Nice to see a Penguin getting under someone's skin out there.


I think that the Pens didn't start playing back on their heels until the penalty parade started. They had control of the game, rolling 4 lines and being aggressive. When you start getting called for boarding on a good forecheck (a staple in your system, BTW), you start to lose your aggression. It showed. Kunitz and Vitale are 2 guys that forecheck very hard...and that is evidently now a penalty. Just like the last couple years when we saw Dmen turning their backs to everything cause they knew if they were touched it was a penalty, now we see Dmen leaving that 2 foot gap between them and the boards. Vitale's 2nd penalty was a joke...it was shoulder to shoulder. The Pens didn't lose their cool until Neal and Martin? both took similar hits...with no call.

They need to be able to shrug that stuff off, but that's hard to do when that call is followed by another, which is followed by another. NJ was interfering all over the ice (one of their staples)...but they were allowed to get away with it.

Please don't read this as an excuse for this team to play the way they did...especially in the 3rd...but the refs made their presence known in that game. The Pens were the beneficiaries of this kinda thing against the Caps, so there is no 'conspiracy theory'...it's just frustrating to see.
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Re: Game 12 vs. NJ Devils - Thoughts from the morning after

Postby Rylan on Sun Feb 10, 2013 12:48 pm

The refs weren't the reason the Pens lost. But they were the reason it was a boring game. :pop:
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Re: Game 12 vs. NJ Devils - Thoughts from the morning after

Postby The Snapshot on Sun Feb 10, 2013 12:53 pm

Luckybreak wrote:-Refs have really suffered from the lockout, poor guys. Where was their sob story video?
-Geno has looked overly 'hyped' since the first game, needs to find some composure. WE GOTTA KEEP OUR COMPOSURE!
-Still loving Despres and Bortuzzo, the swagger and the grit are fun to watch. D holding it together despite lack of Letang and Nisky.
-PK was great but the penalties killed us, no momentum for Sid/Geno who both looked thrown off their game.


Bortuzzo was in intense battles with several Devils, and at one point he moved a guy from Flower's crease before Engel could get there after a whistle. I like the edge he has in his game and you can see his confidence building to the point where he is going to assert himself.

He's a very good skater and pretty good with the puck too, which seem to be underestimated parts of his game. He has a big shot from the point too. I saw all of that right before the lockout ended when I caught a WBS game, and glad to see it translates to the NHL. It's hard to tell when a guy is amongst some of the pluggers at the AHL level.

I think he's going to be a very difficult guy to play against in this league for a while if he continues to make good decisions out there. His reach to go with his skating and edge should make him good money.
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Re: Game 12 vs. NJ Devils - Thoughts from the morning after

Postby Eismann on Sun Feb 10, 2013 1:21 pm

Devs played a solid game. Really impressed with how they tightened up defensively. Pens had no play behind Brodeur.
Digging Borty.
Trade Tangradi for Clarkson.
I think Kennedy is still in the lineup, but I'm not sure.
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Re: Game 12 vs. NJ Devils - Thoughts from the morning after

Postby Luckybreak on Sun Feb 10, 2013 1:35 pm

The Snapshot wrote:
Luckybreak wrote:-Refs have really suffered from the lockout, poor guys. Where was their sob story video?
-Geno has looked overly 'hyped' since the first game, needs to find some composure. WE GOTTA KEEP OUR COMPOSURE!
-Still loving Despres and Bortuzzo, the swagger and the grit are fun to watch. D holding it together despite lack of Letang and Nisky.
-PK was great but the penalties killed us, no momentum for Sid/Geno who both looked thrown off their game.


Bortuzzo was in intense battles with several Devils, and at one point he moved a guy from Flower's crease before Engel could get there after a whistle. I like the edge he has in his game and you can see his confidence building to the point where he is going to assert himself.

He's a very good skater and pretty good with the puck too, which seem to be underestimated parts of his game. He has a big shot from the point too. I saw all of that right before the lockout ended when I caught a WBS game, and glad to see it translates to the NHL. It's hard to tell when a guy is amongst some of the pluggers at the AHL level.

I think he's going to be a very difficult guy to play against in this league for a while if he continues to make good decisions out there. His reach to go with his skating and edge should make him good money.


I really like him and Engo as the 5/6, both have limitations but they impose themselves and seem to love their 'Don't **** with us' roles. One of them will sit when Nisky returns, he is the superior player by far yet the dynamic will be lost. Plus Despres is really earning his spot and was learning from Letang, would be a shame to see him dropped to 3rd pairing (I'm fully against trading him or WBS). Good problems to have I guess!
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Re: Game 12 vs. NJ Devils - Thoughts from the morning after

Postby Desiato on Sun Feb 10, 2013 1:40 pm

Typical Pens loss. The high energy level they start the game with gets whittled down by making skating into the same brick wall over and over again. As they get fatigued , the lapses, errors and bad penalties come. This spirals as fatigue increases from PKs and defensive scrambles. This was a winnable game. To me, this was another example of "our game or the highway." They seem so damned and determined to win every game by overwhelming their opponents rather than handling them the most efficient way possible.
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Re: Game 12 vs. NJ Devils - Thoughts from the morning after

Postby Luckybreak on Sun Feb 10, 2013 1:48 pm

Desiato wrote:Typical Pens loss. The high energy level they start the game with gets whittled down by making skating into the same brick wall over and over again. As they get fatigued , the lapses, errors and bad penalties come. This spirals as fatigue increases from PKs and defensive scrambles. This was a winnable game. To me, this was another example of "our game or the highway." They seem so damned and determined to win every game by overwhelming their opponents rather than handling them the most efficient way possible.


Proof of this will come tonight with the display, or lack of, adjustments (NJ obv did following the Pens previous game). Pens may still want to 'get to their game' and might succeed if they do but HCDB must at least instill some discipline and adjust to the calls that are being made.
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Re: Game 12 vs. NJ Devils - Thoughts from the morning after

Postby penny lane on Sun Feb 10, 2013 1:49 pm

pass~ like a keen observer wrote yesterday, sometimes you are the fire hydrant.
Onto tonight's game with a new D man to watch.
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Re: Game 12 vs. NJ Devils - Thoughts from the morning after

Postby The Snapshot on Sun Feb 10, 2013 1:54 pm

Desiato wrote:Typical Pens loss.....They seem so damned and determined to win every game by overwhelming their opponents rather than handling them the most efficient way possible.


I agree with this only in the sense that these are the games they lose, but when they win they do just the opposite and they have won twice as many as they have lost. The good news is that for me they lose almost by stubborn choice. The bad news is that they are stubborn at times.

They don't always take the emotional approach we saw yesterday. In fact, on their recent winning streak they HAVE overwhelmed by being efficient.
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Re: Game 12 vs. NJ Devils - Thoughts from the morning after

Postby The Snapshot on Sun Feb 10, 2013 1:58 pm

Luckybreak wrote:Despres is really earning his spot and was learning from Letang, would be a shame to see him dropped to 3rd pairing (I'm fully against trading him or WBS). Good problems to have I guess!


Despres is a stud, and he just needs to progress and gain confidence. He is a top pair guy in the future. Even if he stops developing right now he will be a top 4 guy for a long time in this league. The top pair development requires him to make more consistent decisions and more consistent use of his body instead of fishing with his stick. When he uses his body, he stops plays instantly.
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Re: Game 12 vs. NJ Devils - Thoughts from the morning after

Postby Gaucho on Sun Feb 10, 2013 2:03 pm

Rylan wrote:The refs weren't the reason the Pens lost. But they were the reason it was a boring game. :pop:


Amen.
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Re: Game 12 vs. NJ Devils - Thoughts from the morning after

Postby Desiato on Sun Feb 10, 2013 2:15 pm

Luckybreak wrote:
Desiato wrote:Typical Pens loss. The high energy level they start the game with gets whittled down by making skating into the same brick wall over and over again. As they get fatigued , the lapses, errors and bad penalties come. This spirals as fatigue increases from PKs and defensive scrambles. This was a winnable game. To me, this was another example of "our game or the highway." They seem so damned and determined to win every game by overwhelming their opponents rather than handling them the most efficient way possible.


Proof of this will come tonight with the display, or lack of, adjustments (NJ obv did following the Pens previous game). Pens may still want to 'get to their game' and might succeed if they do but HCDB must at least instill some discipline and adjust to the calls that are being made.


Tonight's game isn't going to prove anything.

It's all about one's expectations for this team. I think we have the personnel to be a dominant regular season team that can cruise to the playoffs. It is an aging team, but still young, so I don't think we should be plagued by injuries like we have been, consistently, for years. I, like most analysts, expect this to be a perennial contender that makes it deep into the playoffs every year or goes down looking very strong.

I know it seems crazy to be critical of the Pens when they're doing well in terms of W-L, GF vs GA, but we've been strong in those areas without real success for a while now. "We're" better than a 1-4 seed, first/second round team. This talented team has the personnel, experience and familiarity with each other to be on cruise control on most nights and still win top seed with bodies saved for war in the playoffs.
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Re: Game 12 vs. NJ Devils - Thoughts from the morning after

Postby Luckybreak on Sun Feb 10, 2013 2:22 pm

Desiato wrote:
Luckybreak wrote:
Desiato wrote:Typical Pens loss. The high energy level they start the game with gets whittled down by making skating into the same brick wall over and over again. As they get fatigued , the lapses, errors and bad penalties come. This spirals as fatigue increases from PKs and defensive scrambles. This was a winnable game. To me, this was another example of "our game or the highway." They seem so damned and determined to win every game by overwhelming their opponents rather than handling them the most efficient way possible.


Proof of this will come tonight with the display, or lack of, adjustments (NJ obv did following the Pens previous game). Pens may still want to 'get to their game' and might succeed if they do but HCDB must at least instill some discipline and adjust to the calls that are being made.


Tonight's game isn't going to prove anything.

It's all about one's expectations for this team. I think we have the personnel to be a dominant regular season team that can cruise to the playoffs. It is an aging team, but still young, so I don't think we should be plagued by injuries like we have been, consistently, for years. I, like most analysts, expect this to be a perennial contender that makes it deep into the playoffs every year or goes down looking very strong.

I know it seems crazy to be critical of the Pens when they're doing well in terms of W-L, GF vs GA, but we've been strong in those areas without real success for a while now. "We're" better than a 1-4 seed, first/second round team. This talented team has the personnel, experience and familiarity with each other to be on cruise control on most nights and still win top seed with bodies saved for war in the playoffs.


Tonight might display a continuation of HCDB's recent alterations following glaring problems. Failure to respond in some way after that loss emphasises my fear that whilst this team can certainly win on cruise control, they have displayed a distinct failure to adapt to certain strategies and that will count during the playoffs.
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Re: Game 12 vs. NJ Devils - Thoughts from the morning after

Postby guiner on Sun Feb 10, 2013 2:24 pm

If Martin is hurt (missed morning skate), the pens need to go with Orpik on first PP. Because Daypray obviously isn't a viable option. :roll:
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Re: Game 12 vs. NJ Devils - Thoughts from the morning after

Postby Desiato on Sun Feb 10, 2013 2:39 pm

Luckybreak wrote:Tonight might display a continuation of HCDB's recent alterations following glaring problems. Failure to respond in some way after that loss emphasises my fear that whilst this team can certainly win on cruise control, they have displayed a distinct failure to adapt to certain strategies and that will count during the playoffs.


What I'm saying is the Pens don't have an effective 'cruise control'. A point should come in a game when you handle a team efficiently, via positioning and trapping, without a lot of energy expenditure and risk of injury. The 7-13 min guys should be the energy guys putting their bodies on the line, but the 15-22m guys need to pace themselves over the course of a full season and get to the playoffs healthy.

I often think, when watching the Pens play, that regardless of ability, they play like a team of Dan Bylsmas, a career 7-13 minute guy who was paid to put his body on the line every shift.

When I say 'handle' a team, think Bowman, Babcock, Hitchcock, Lemaire, etc. The Pens need that element to their game; in addition to the style they already play.
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Re: Game 12 vs. NJ Devils - Thoughts from the morning after

Postby marek on Sun Feb 10, 2013 2:53 pm

Rylan wrote:The refs weren't the reason the Pens lost. But they were the reason it was a boring game. :pop:


Couldn't disagree more. The refs were why the pens lost. When a set of refs decide to call a game a certain way which favors one team over another they impact the result by default.

Removing the aggressive forecheck that the penguins Want and need to implement in order to be successful by calling a roughing penalty for sneezing was not due to anything the devils did. It was done by the refs.
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Re: Game 12 vs. NJ Devils - Thoughts from the morning after

Postby Gaucho on Sun Feb 10, 2013 2:59 pm

marek wrote:
Rylan wrote:The refs weren't the reason the Pens lost. But they were the reason it was a boring game. :pop:


Couldn't disagree more. The refs were why the pens lost. When a set of refs decide to call a game a certain way which favors one team over another they impact the result by default.

Removing the aggressive forecheck that the penguins Want and need to implement in order to be successful by calling a roughing penalty for sneezing was not due to anything the devils did. It was done by the refs.


Not sure if serious.
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Re: Game 12 vs. NJ Devils - Thoughts from the morning after

Postby pcm on Sun Feb 10, 2013 3:23 pm

Desiato wrote:
Luckybreak wrote:Tonight might display a continuation of HCDB's recent alterations following glaring problems. Failure to respond in some way after that loss emphasises my fear that whilst this team can certainly win on cruise control, they have displayed a distinct failure to adapt to certain strategies and that will count during the playoffs.


What I'm saying is the Pens don't have an effective 'cruise control'. A point should come in a game when you handle a team efficiently, via positioning and trapping, without a lot of energy expenditure and risk of injury. The 7-13 min guys should be the energy guys putting their bodies on the line, but the 15-22m guys need to pace themselves over the course of a full season and get to the playoffs healthy.

I often think, when watching the Pens play, that regardless of ability, they play like a team of Dan Bylsmas, a career 7-13 minute guy who was paid to put his body on the line every shift.

When I say 'handle' a team, think Bowman, Babcock, Hitchcock, Lemaire, etc. The Pens need that element to their game; in addition to the style they already play.


Spot on. I've been saying for years that for the Pens to become a truly elite team (the next development after winning 1 cup) they need to learn to take control of games and lock them down so that opponents are soundly handled. Detroit is a perfect example of this the last decade...until the Pens dethroned them. But the Pens have yet to mature to that point where they are "in control" of the game efficiently and effectively.

Almost, it's like the Pens have yet to grow out of the spunky upstart / underdog mentality. They rely too much on their emotional energy and courage. Teams have figured out that coming at the Pens with aggression can bring them over the edge... For the Pens to take that next step, they need to bring a more cool collected and precise delivery to their game. They don't need to mimic the Red Wings machine exactly, but they do need to learn to channel their energy more efficiently in order to achieve that dynasty level they are capable of.
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Re: Game 12 vs. NJ Devils - Thoughts from the morning after

Postby Gaucho on Sun Feb 10, 2013 3:26 pm

Becoming an elite team comes after winning a Cup?
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Re: Game 12 vs. NJ Devils - Thoughts from the morning after

Postby sniper on Sun Feb 10, 2013 3:40 pm

marek wrote:
Rylan wrote:The refs weren't the reason the Pens lost. But they were the reason it was a boring game. :pop:


Couldn't disagree more. The refs were why the pens lost. When a set of refs decide to call a game a certain way which favors one team over another they impact the result by default.

Removing the aggressive forecheck that the penguins Want and need to implement in order to be successful by calling a roughing penalty for sneezing was not due to anything the devils did. It was done by the refs.


I wouldn't say the refs were the reason the pens lost. The refs just changed the way the game was played by making several questionable calls for sure, but there is no guarantee they would have won if that didn't occur. The pens got frustrated by the bad calls and took a bunch of dumb penalties. They have to maintain composure and work through it. Instead they got frustrated by it and let the Devils take over the game.

If I was Bylsma I'd call the league office and have them explain why the penalties called on Vitale and the Engelland interference call were penalties so I could tell my players what they need to avoid doing in the future. I didn't understand any of those calls. They all looked like perfectly clean hits to me.
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Re: Game 12 vs. NJ Devils - Thoughts from the morning after

Postby Gaucho on Sun Feb 10, 2013 4:21 pm

Rick Scarsellone ‏@RickScars1
Sidney Crosby walks into a bar and asks for an Ovechkin. Bartender asks what's that? Crosby says, "A White Russian with no ice and no cup."
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Re: Game 12 vs. NJ Devils - Thoughts from the morning after

Postby pcm on Sun Feb 10, 2013 4:30 pm

Gaucho wrote:Becoming an elite team comes after winning a Cup?


Why yes it does, Mr. Gaucho. Were the Canadiens an elite team in the 90's? How about the Hurricanes in the past decade? No, in either case. But they both won cups. In my post I related "elite" to a team attaining near dynasty-status. The Red Wings and the Devils are probably the only 2 teams I would qualify as elite in the past 10 years, and both are seeing their era's come to an end. The Penguins are not there yet, as 1 playoff victory in the past 3 seasons attests to.
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