Gaucho wrote:THN had Sawchuk 1st overall back when they compiled their list of Top 100 NHL players of all time (which would exclude Tretiak, of course). These are the goalies that made their list:
It is safe to assume that both Hasek and Brodeur would make their Top 10 by now, and they in fact ranked Roy higher in an updated list. I realize this is not gospel, but given the pedigree of the 50 people compiling the list (Al Arbour, Scott Bowman, Bob McKenzie, Frank Selke etc), there is no way Sawchuk - their top goalie of all time - would not make the Top 5.
THN doesn't really do all that great of a job with their lists. It's tough when you just start asking people to do an all-time list of anything without giving them time to at least refresh their memory, so to speak.
If you asked me the 20 greatest Penguins of all time, even though we just did that draft and I had knowledge going into it, I'm not sure I could sit there and name them in any sort of "right" order...I'd want to sit down and look it over and then do it...maybe you can pop off of a top-5 or top-10 without breaking a sweat, but when you start to get into these lengthy lists, there's just no way...
Bowman recently released a list of his top 100 players of all time and I take what Bowman says very, very, very seriously...and the list was total crap. If it was posted on a hockey history message board, it would be removed because it would cause such disdain and laughter...hell, I think Wendel Clark made it at like 89...
@ the above list, which I don't want to micro-analyze...
Ignoring the top 10 I just posted, which is pretty well researched and backed with film (exception being Vezina).
Durnan - Extremely short career. Major benefit of playing in a league that was filled with AHL talent (I think he was the only goalie or one of two goalies that didn't go to War) because all the good players left to fight in the War. As a result, the Canadiens (who lost the fewest players by far to the War effort) ran roughshod over the competition. Games were not remotely close by and large. Sometimes double-digits to nothing. Durnan would have to stifle yawns during contests. The league never really fills back up sufficiently until after he's gone. He gets some credit for whatever happens after 1947, but by and large, it's like dropping Marian Gaborik into the ECHL and going "see! 200 goal season! He's the best!"
Hainsworth - This is just a stat grab, a poorly researched one at that. It doesn't appear he was even regarded as a top-3 goalie of his time. He gets a lot of mileage for his 22 shutouts in 44 games season, but the league managers didn't even vote that he was the best goalie that year. Style of play biases for both him and the team he played for existed (he was positional, no frills, his team: tidy in their own end). Ultimately though, Hainsworth was just not highly regarded in his time. He belongs on a list, somewhere, not top-20 though...not too far off that...tough to take a not top-3 goalie from a fairly iffy era and assign him so highly all time...especially if you aren't gonna take the guys above ahead of him...
Broda - He was very highly regarded. Some have him top-5, or a lock for top-10. Money goalie for the Leafs, durable, but often took regular seasons a little lightly. Leafs very good defensively at the time, shot blockers before it was popular some of them. Of the era, I ranked them: Brimsek, Broda, Durnan. All top 20, Broda/Brimsek definitely top 15 in my opinion...
Parent - Two-year peak in 1974 and 1975 gets him a lot of play. Though, it was probably the best two year peak for any goalie ever. Virtually unbeatable for two straight years. One knock: What else is there on his resume? Two knock: Save pct. figures for poor goalies on the same team as him are troublingly high Three knock: Wayne Stephenson, 1976. Parent is top 20 almost certainly. Not top 10, also, almost certainly. Had a knack for not allowing goals in tight games though, even more so than Dryden. Parent also faced more power play opportunities than many goalies, should be factored in. Tough to name that defense even from a 3x SC Finalist, but had the best defensive forward of all time at his disposal...
Fuhr - Fine, undersold by his numbers. Not top 20, but good longevity, adaptability, sustainability. Played for a wild Oilers team who would turn pucks over in their own end so frequently it's ridiculous. Might have won 5 straight Cups if not for Steve Smith.
Gardiner - Very short career, died pretty early on. Adapted very well to the forward pass. His career is basically all peak, except for the 13-61-10 start to his career. Him and Vezina were the first two goalies inducted into the Hall in the initial class. And it wasn't a direct result of his death, as the events were separated by more than a decade.
Benedict - Basically revoked the rule that goalies could drop down to the ice to make a save. Spent much of his time pretending to slip, and then would go horizontal and make the stop. He did it so often that the league just decided to do away with the rule all together, both in the East and the West. As a result of his "cheating" style, some loved him as an innovator others chastised him as unsportsmanlike. No matter how you slice it, he was way better than Hainsworth. Wish we could have had another year or two after the forward pass was liberalized, in his final year when it was, he struggled. We'll never know if that was just a great player losing it or him being unable to adjust. If we throw it out as "eh, he was retiring..." he's right there with Gardiner in the top 15.
Smith - Belongs near Fuhr. Before research, I thought he was a system goalie (backed by the numbers posted by Chico Resch and Rollie Melanson on Long Island and after) but he was part of what made that system work. Superb in anticipation and position. Could read shots off the stick with no problem and kept play going for transitions. Had an easier time than Fuhr, no doubt, but his success mimics that, so it's a wash. Wish we could have seen him outside of Arbour, but according to my eye, he would have done well in any reasonable location (i.e. not including the '75 Capitals). Not top-20 though...I don't have him above Fuhr, but there's a very good case for it...
Chabot - lol. I never get this one. I'm not sure who they're asking about Chabot, I got to believe it's a relative of some sort. It's legitimately puzzling what people value when they put Chabot so high...he was voted as the best goalie once (1935) and it was immediately after the best goalie in the league died. I think he was on the cover of Time magazine once, maybe that's getting him some mileage. Otherwise, I'm not sure he's top 50.
Bower - Worked his way up. Played for a defensive Leafs team. Played until he was like 65 or something like that...no one was sure of his age at the time, it seemed that he didn't want to tell anyone because he was scared they send him away...put together a good career and was very good in the AHL's finest hour as well. Think about it, the best goalie in the AHL in 1959 is, at worst, the 7th best goalie in the world. Case for top-5 sometimes depending on the quality of the Blackhawks or Rangers goalie at the time. Made a nice career for himself despite the speed bumps. Good case for top-20 plus or minus.
No Belfour probably is date of publication related, I guess...
No Worters or Tiny Thompson is lack of research I guess...