Tomas Vokoun starting in goal

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Re: Tomas Vokoun starting in goal

Postby shmenguin on Thu Feb 21, 2013 11:38 am

last night wasn't a death sentence for the warm and fuzzy backup goalie era, but it officially plants a seed of doubt on what vokoun can do. it wasn't just the benny hill goal. he was all over the map last night, and you can even go back into some of the games he's won with good stats and see some of the same troubling play.
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Re: Tomas Vokoun starting in goal

Postby llipgh2 on Thu Feb 21, 2013 12:32 pm

shmenguin wrote:it wasn't just the benny hill goal.


I freaking love this. :lol:
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Re: Tomas Vokoun starting in goal

Postby penscup on Fri Feb 22, 2013 12:49 am

pfim wrote:I mean, why is he just standing there watching the play happen on the Grossman goal? I can't even get upset, it's befuddling.


What exactly would you like him to do there? It was a bizarre scramble in front of the net. He turned around after the initial shot sequence to basically find all 5 Penguin players inside his crease trying to play goaltender. Why did he stand there watching?...for the exact reason of what took place. The puck somehow bounced out of the pile directly to Couturier and Vokoun was in perfect position to try and make another save after turning around again. He ended up flopping down to try and freeze the puck and was unsuccessful allowing Grossman to finally squeeze it through somehow. I guess he could have flopped down in the crease earlier with the result being that Philly scored even quicker on the play. Nothing he could do. Just a bizarre play from start to finish and blaming that goal on anything Vokoun did or didn't do is equally bizarre.
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Re: Tomas Vokoun starting in goal

Postby Idoit40fans on Fri Feb 22, 2013 9:10 am

Yeah I finally saw the play and i'm not sure how you can blame the goalie on that goal. Literally all the penguins skaters were in the crease and 10 of the 12 players on the ice at the time were all within 2 feet of the crease.
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Re: Tomas Vokoun starting in goal

Postby tfrizz on Fri Feb 22, 2013 9:15 am

Idoit40fans wrote:Yeah I finally saw the play and i'm not sure how you can blame the goalie on that goal. Literally all the penguins skaters were in the crease and 10 of the 12 players on the ice at the time were all within 2 feet of the crease.


He could've made more of an attempt to get back in the crease and try to buy an interference or incidental contact call. He got bumped by 2 or 3 Flyers as was, but it seems that since he never made a real attempt to get back in the crease the refs wouldn't call it.
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Re: Tomas Vokoun starting in goal

Postby shafnutz05 on Fri Feb 22, 2013 9:17 am

Idoit40fans wrote:Yeah I finally saw the play and i'm not sure how you can blame the goalie on that goal. Literally all the penguins skaters were in the crease and 10 of the 12 players on the ice at the time were all within 2 feet of the crease.


He could have at least jumped and down and waved his arms making whooping noises to distract the Flyers attackers
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Re: Tomas Vokoun starting in goal

Postby shmenguin on Fri Feb 22, 2013 9:17 am

And with that post, the answer is "anything"
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Re: Tomas Vokoun starting in goal

Postby Idoit40fans on Fri Feb 22, 2013 9:27 am

shafnutz05 wrote:
Idoit40fans wrote:Yeah I finally saw the play and i'm not sure how you can blame the goalie on that goal. Literally all the penguins skaters were in the crease and 10 of the 12 players on the ice at the time were all within 2 feet of the crease.


He could have at least jumped and down and waved his arms making whooping noises to distract the Flyers attackers


That seemed to be the only thing he could have done. I guess people wanted him to dive into the players that were there, risking injury to himself and his teammates and making no change to the likelihood that a goal gets scored. Actually making it more likely as there is no one available to jump on the puck if it kicks out of the scrum other than Flyers.
Last edited by Idoit40fans on Fri Feb 22, 2013 9:27 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Tomas Vokoun starting in goal

Postby thepittman on Fri Feb 22, 2013 9:27 am

shmenguin wrote:And with that post, the answer is "anything"

Example? I think he was watching hoping the puck would jump out so he could make a play on it
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Re: Tomas Vokoun starting in goal

Postby shmenguin on Fri Feb 22, 2013 9:42 am

Yeah, standing still outside the crease for a while was literally the only play there. That sounds right.
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Re: Tomas Vokoun starting in goal

Postby pfim on Fri Feb 22, 2013 9:48 am

penscup wrote:
pfim wrote:I mean, why is he just standing there watching the play happen on the Grossman goal? I can't even get upset, it's befuddling.


What exactly would you like him to do there? It was a bizarre scramble in front of the net. He turned around after the initial shot sequence to basically find all 5 Penguin players inside his crease trying to play goaltender. Why did he stand there watching?...for the exact reason of what took place. The puck somehow bounced out of the pile directly to Couturier and Vokoun was in perfect position to try and make another save after turning around again. He ended up flopping down to try and freeze the puck and was unsuccessful allowing Grossman to finally squeeze it through somehow. I guess he could have flopped down in the crease earlier with the result being that Philly scored even quicker on the play. Nothing he could do. Just a bizarre play from start to finish and blaming that goal on anything Vokoun did or didn't do is equally bizarre.


Don't drift out of the net. Don't sit there and hold Talbot's hand while the entire team tries to cover for you. How about getting in front of someone or pushing them out of the crease? You're facing your own freaking goal, take a penalty. Anything but standing there then flopping to your belly making snow angels.

There are five penguins closer to goal than the goalie at that point, don't tell me he did nothing wrong.
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Re: Tomas Vokoun starting in goal

Postby Idoit40fans on Fri Feb 22, 2013 10:01 am

He did nothing wrong. A scrum like that never happens. Goalies get that far out of the net every game, players don't fill their ice behind them.
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Re: Tomas Vokoun starting in goal

Postby shmenguin on Fri Feb 22, 2013 10:18 am

i know one person is just trolling, but for the rest of you, all you need to do is look at seconds 4 through 7. i'll give vokoun a hesitant pass for the rest, but he has no excuse in secs 4-7.

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Re: Tomas Vokoun starting in goal

Postby thepittman on Fri Feb 22, 2013 11:24 am

I just see dont see what you are seeing, the entire team is behind him. I guess he could have yelled cannonball and jumped on the pile.
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Re: Tomas Vokoun starting in goal

Postby RxBandit66 on Fri Feb 22, 2013 11:43 am

thepittman wrote:I just see dont see what you are seeing, the entire team is behind him. I guess he could have yelled cannonball and jumped on the pile.


I saw that and agree with you. But what I didn't understand is how 6 players could have been down there and not one of them skated toward the shooter who had the puck and attempted to block the shot. :?
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Re: Tomas Vokoun starting in goal

Postby shmenguin on Fri Feb 22, 2013 11:53 am

the entire team is behind him?

Image

2 of his teammates are between him and the goal - 1 just barely and the other is in the net, which isn't much of an obstacle.

in those 3 seconds where he stands completely still, the rest of his team, who are further away than him from the goal, are able to make their way into the crease through the magic of "movement".
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Re: Tomas Vokoun starting in goal

Postby Rylan on Fri Feb 22, 2013 11:54 am

I agree with shmenguin. Vokoun should have made some effort to try and get back to the front of the net.
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Re: Tomas Vokoun starting in goal

Postby Steve Dave on Fri Feb 22, 2013 12:02 pm

Looks like Grossman's shot hit Letang in the face/head.
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Re: Tomas Vokoun starting in goal

Postby Steve Dave on Fri Feb 22, 2013 12:07 pm

Question: since the puck came out of the crease prior to the goal, what is the rule for an opposing team's player being in the crease, not allowing the goalie to attempt a save?
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Re: Tomas Vokoun starting in goal

Postby Rylan on Fri Feb 22, 2013 12:09 pm

Steve Dave wrote:Question: since the puck came out of the crease prior to the goal, what is the rule for an opposing team's player being in the crease, not allowing the goalie to attempt a save?


I think with the amount of Penguins players in the crease, there would be no case for goalie interference as long as a Flyer didn't take out Vokoun. But say Vokoun came out and only a Flyer was in the crease and he hindered Vokoun's chance at making a save it would be No Goal.
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Re: Tomas Vokoun starting in goal

Postby shmenguin on Fri Feb 22, 2013 12:14 pm

Steve Dave wrote:Question: since the puck came out of the crease prior to the goal, what is the rule for an opposing team's player being in the crease, not allowing the goalie to attempt a save?


in the world of tin foil hats...

-grossman made some contact, but it was outside the crease and he was going for the puck
-knuble ended up falling on him, but he was tripped by a combo of vitale and vokoun

a team of lawyers could put this goal on trial and maybe find a loophole to have it acquitted on a technicality. but in practical reality, it was a good goal.
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Re: Tomas Vokoun starting in goal

Postby brwi on Fri Feb 22, 2013 12:28 pm

pfim wrote:Don't drift out of the net. Don't sit there and hold Talbot's hand while the entire team tries to cover for you. How about getting in front of someone or pushing them out of the crease? You're facing your own freaking goal, take a penalty. Anything but standing there then flopping to your belly making snow angels.

There are five penguins closer to goal than the goalie at that point, don't tell me he did nothing wrong.


He was very JS Aubin-esque with the floppy fish routine there. Vokoun was positionally way off that night,wandering around, drifting way out of position and also slow to recover. He had shown a bit of over-playing shots before the flyers game, but it really bit him two nights ago. Just bad all-around but he's been worse and faced worse and I'm not too concerned about having him as the backup goaltender at all...he's still a positive. He just had a real off-night and it happens to every goaltender.

Basically, if Vokoun goes out and sux against about any other team besides the Flyers, it's not a big deal to a lot of Pens' fans but it's a HUGE deal when it happens at home vs. the Flyers. Not to me; I think he's still a solid backup and an upgrade over last year when BJ hit the wall.
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Re: Tomas Vokoun starting in goal

Postby Pitt87 on Fri Feb 22, 2013 1:23 pm

Rylan wrote:
Steve Dave wrote:Question: since the puck came out of the crease prior to the goal, what is the rule for an opposing team's player being in the crease, not allowing the goalie to attempt a save?


I think with the amount of Penguins players in the crease, there would be no case for goalie interference as long as a Flyer didn't take out Vokoun. But say Vokoun came out and only a Flyer was in the crease and he hindered Vokoun's chance at making a save it would be No Goal.


Ultimately, its Ref's discretion how they call it... they could say that there is no way he could have exited the crease, or could have said that an extra orange sweater in the crease actually makes it harder to score, not easier.

Its the Pens own stupid fault for defending the net and puck instead of man or sticks. Take the 2 minute penalty to grab the puck and throw it out of the crease and at least give your guys a chance to prevent a goal.
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Re: Tomas Vokoun starting in goal

Postby penscup on Fri Feb 22, 2013 3:17 pm

pfim wrote:Don't drift out of the net. Don't sit there and hold Talbot's hand while the entire team tries to cover for you. How about getting in front of someone or pushing them out of the crease? You're facing your own freaking goal, take a penalty. Anything but standing there then flopping to your belly making snow angels.

There are five penguins closer to goal than the goalie at that point, don't tell me he did nothing wrong.


While it may have seemed like he was standing there watching and doing nothing, he was actually trying to find the puck in the mass of bodies that had formed in the chaos, which was virtually impossible. How can he make a play on the puck when he can't find it and it is bouncing around like a pinball? He was also blocked by Flyer players from getting back into the play at two separate points further preventing his ability to attempt any sort of save. Nothing he could do once that sequence descended into chaos.
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Re: Tomas Vokoun starting in goal

Postby Froggy on Fri Feb 22, 2013 3:25 pm

Yeah, that sequence was pretty bizarre. I can't really get too mad at it. The 4th and 6th goals were the real killers. But all night, he really looked awkward. It happens.
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