28 Pgh police officers and OT (edit: Mayor Luke gone?)

Forum for posts that are not hockey-related.

Moderators: Three Stars, dagny, pfim, netwolf

Re: 28 Pgh police officers made more than their police chief

Postby Hockeynut! on Fri Feb 22, 2013 12:48 pm

BigMcK wrote:If the city factors earnings as a factor of pension benefits, the more you make in total, boosts future pension earnings. Locally, it is not uncommon for a senior officer to pull as much OT as possible for the final three years before retiring, thus showing a six-figure salary as the baseline for pension benefits. Doing this, your base salary may for example be $80k, but if you add another $80K in OT, future earning are based on $160k, and you could receive a pension check equal to your base salary.


I know that's how the PA State Police operate, or at least they did recently. I had several friends on the police force and when a guy was getting close to retirement, he would ask to be transferred to night shift, work all the holidays & weekends, work as much OT as possible, etc. all to get his income as high as possible and raise his pensions.
Hockeynut!
AHL'er
AHL'er
 
Posts: 4,195
Joined: Sun Jan 29, 2006 9:55 am

Re: 28 Pgh police officers made more than their police chief

Postby Rylan on Fri Feb 22, 2013 12:49 pm

Sam's Drunk Dog wrote:I am a certified fraud examiner, and this whole thing smells really bad. There could be a lot of shaddy actions going on related to this.

What relationships do the bar owners have with the police staff or mayor's office? Is the officer or person in charge of making the assignments to the bars get kickbacks from the officers? Why do the bars need police officers to run security? Why not just hire a security company? Is the city charging a fair value to the bars for the services of the officers? Are the officers actually working the hours claimed,? Are they drinking at the bar, or submitting hours they never worked?

That is just some of the questions I'd be asking.


Seriously? that is actually pretty cool
Rylan
NHL Fourth Liner
NHL Fourth Liner
 
Posts: 16,018
Joined: Sun Aug 30, 2009 12:07 am
Location: Dead and Without Love

Re: 28 Pgh police officers made more than their police chief

Postby Troy Loney on Fri Feb 22, 2013 1:01 pm

Sam's Drunk Dog wrote:I am a certified fraud examiner, and this whole thing smells really bad. There could be a lot of shaddy actions going on related to this.

What relationships do the bar owners have with the police staff or mayor's office? Is the officer or person in charge of making the assignments to the bars get kickbacks from the officers? Why do the bars need police officers to run security? Why not just hire a security company? Is the city charging a fair value to the bars for the services of the officers? Are the officers actually working the hours claimed,? Are they drinking at the bar, or submitting hours they never worked?

That is just some of the questions I'd be asking.


Sounds like the cops are bunch of greedy, corrupt pieces of ****. f'them.
Troy Loney
NHL Third Liner
NHL Third Liner
 
Posts: 27,574
Joined: Tue Mar 13, 2007 9:10 am
Location: Pittsburgh

Re: 28 Pgh police officers made more than their police chief

Postby Troy Loney on Fri Feb 22, 2013 1:02 pm

I'm still a little jaded over the pittsburgh police with regards to those meatheads that beat the living piss out of that high school kid for no reason. I'm sure there are plenty of stand up cops, so don't jump on this and be like "my friend's dad jared was a pittsburgh police officer and he was a great guy".
Troy Loney
NHL Third Liner
NHL Third Liner
 
Posts: 27,574
Joined: Tue Mar 13, 2007 9:10 am
Location: Pittsburgh

Re: 28 Pgh police officers made more than their police chief

Postby pensfan1989 on Fri Feb 22, 2013 1:09 pm

I always see cops at Gdoor in Oakland and the bars on the Southside like Jimmy D's standing there and talking to the bouncers for literally the entire night.
pensfan1989
ECHL'er
ECHL'er
 
Posts: 2,178
Joined: Tue Mar 23, 2010 10:51 pm
Location: Ponakronkoski

Re: 28 Pgh police officers made more than their police chief

Postby Sam's Drunk Dog on Fri Feb 22, 2013 1:20 pm

Rylan wrote:
Sam's Drunk Dog wrote:I am a certified fraud examiner, and this whole thing smells really bad. There could be a lot of shaddy actions going on related to this.

What relationships do the bar owners have with the police staff or mayor's office? Is the officer or person in charge of making the assignments to the bars get kickbacks from the officers? Why do the bars need police officers to run security? Why not just hire a security company? Is the city charging a fair value to the bars for the services of the officers? Are the officers actually working the hours claimed,? Are they drinking at the bar, or submitting hours they never worked?

That is just some of the questions I'd be asking.


Seriously? that is actually pretty cool

Yea. I got the designation a couple years ago. I work for an insurance company and do more data analysis than in-the-field investigative work though.
Sam's Drunk Dog
NHL Fourth Liner
NHL Fourth Liner
 
Posts: 19,374
Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2006 12:31 pm
Location: Behind Enemy Lines

Re: 28 Pgh police officers made more than their police chief

Postby KennyTheKangaroo on Fri Feb 22, 2013 1:22 pm

Sam's Drunk Dog wrote:I am a certified fraud examiner, and this whole thing smells really bad. There could be a lot of shaddy actions going on related to this.



kenny the kangaroo worked with a few CFE's at kenny the kangaroos first job. you people are a strange paranoid breed. but strange and paranoid in a good way.

but good to know that those guys standing around in clumps outside a half empty heinz field during pitt football games are getting well paid.
KennyTheKangaroo
NHL Healthy Scratch
NHL Healthy Scratch
 
Posts: 12,093
Joined: Sun Nov 19, 2006 12:15 am
Location: Under the Skycoaster

Re: 28 Pgh police officers made more than their police chief

Postby Sam's Drunk Dog on Fri Feb 22, 2013 1:26 pm

KennyTheKangaroo wrote:
Sam's Drunk Dog wrote:I am a certified fraud examiner, and this whole thing smells really bad. There could be a lot of shaddy actions going on related to this.



kenny the kangaroo worked with a few CFE's at kenny the kangaroos first job. you people are a strange paranoid breed. but strange and paranoid in a good way.

but good to know that those guys standing around in clumps outside a half empty heinz field during pitt football games are getting well paid.

I'm a CPA too so I've worked on both sides. I think of it more as cautiousness than paranora.
Sam's Drunk Dog
NHL Fourth Liner
NHL Fourth Liner
 
Posts: 19,374
Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2006 12:31 pm
Location: Behind Enemy Lines

Re: 28 Pgh police officers made more than their police chief

Postby Pitt87 on Fri Feb 22, 2013 1:26 pm

mac5155 wrote:Is this why we're broke?


This is whats on record... imagine whats 'off book', either funded by taxpayer or diverted from other program funds.
Pitt87
AHL All-Star
AHL All-Star
 
Posts: 5,255
Joined: Tue Apr 28, 2009 11:33 am
Location: Admin wrote:Rooting for the Flyers is not allowed here. Seriously.

Re: 28 Pgh police officers made more than their police chief

Postby Idoit40fans on Fri Feb 22, 2013 1:30 pm

Sam's Drunk Dog wrote:
KennyTheKangaroo wrote:
Sam's Drunk Dog wrote:I am a certified fraud examiner, and this whole thing smells really bad. There could be a lot of shaddy actions going on related to this.



kenny the kangaroo worked with a few CFE's at kenny the kangaroos first job. you people are a strange paranoid breed. but strange and paranoid in a good way.

but good to know that those guys standing around in clumps outside a half empty heinz field during pitt football games are getting well paid.

I'm a CPA too so I've worked on both sides. I think of it more as cautiousness than paranora.


Pandora?

Paranormal?

Panorama?
Idoit40fans
NHL Third Liner
NHL Third Liner
 
Posts: 53,242
Joined: Sat Dec 09, 2006 2:42 pm
Location: No Reading, No Research, Just Strong Opinions

Re: 28 Pgh police officers made more than their police chief

Postby Sam's Drunk Dog on Fri Feb 22, 2013 1:33 pm

Panda
Sam's Drunk Dog
NHL Fourth Liner
NHL Fourth Liner
 
Posts: 19,374
Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2006 12:31 pm
Location: Behind Enemy Lines

Re: 28 Pgh police officers made more than their police chief

Postby roland on Fri Feb 22, 2013 3:03 pm

BigMcK wrote:If the city factors earnings as a factor of pension benefits, the more you make in total, boosts future pension earnings. Locally, it is not uncommon for a senior officer to pull as much OT as possible for the final three years before retiring, thus showing a six-figure salary as the baseline for pension benefits. Doing this, your base salary may for example be $80k, but if you add another $80K in OT, future earning are based on $160k, and you could receive a pension check equal to your base salary.

The city may be compensated for your services protecting a bar, but your salary is your salary regardless of how the money was earned.



I was under the impression that it didn't matter if it was your last 3 years but your 3 "highest" years throughout your career.

--------------------

as far as getting paid OT for side work, it's necessary because there aren't enough police to go around to cover what's requested. All of the cops that patrol the zone 3 area (southside) would have to be sent to the bars to cover the bars request for police and there wouldn't be any police on the streets. The bar owners, construction crews, private event planners etc. ask for uniformed police officers. Therefore, daylight officers get paid for their normal work day and then go straight to another "detail" (not job) and continue to do the same police work that they did during their previous shift. Keep in mind that the officers who work at night may have to go to court for an 8am hearing at times as well...which they get paid for in OT as well since it's before their shift. Plenty of police departments work this way and each department usually has a handful of officers that are known to work EVERYTHING. They have no lives outside of work, rarely see family...but they make more than their Chief...a lot more because they put in a TON of extra hours.

Don't forget OT pay is time and half, sunday pay is double time, and holiday pay (winter classic) is double time and half.
roland
ECHL'er
ECHL'er
 
Posts: 888
Joined: Fri Oct 06, 2006 1:08 pm

Re: 28 Pgh police officers made more than their police chief

Postby Spangler on Fri Feb 22, 2013 3:26 pm

My brother is a cop outside of PA, and he works a ton of extra events as OT. He may end up working all day. If you put the work in, you should be paid.

The media always makes the cops look bad where he's from. A crackhead could be opening fire in a public area, forcing them to shoot him, and the media always focuses on shooters family to make it look tragic. That example has actually happened.

He says the media never tells the full story.
Spangler
ECHL'er
ECHL'er
 
Posts: 1,361
Joined: Fri Mar 13, 2009 2:31 am
Location: www.reviewjunkies.com

Re: 28 Pgh police officers made more than their police chief

Postby Idoit40fans on Fri Feb 22, 2013 3:35 pm

If you can explain to me how its ok that cops are working a different job and getting paid overtime for it, i'll see your point. The facts are pretty black and white here.
Idoit40fans
NHL Third Liner
NHL Third Liner
 
Posts: 53,242
Joined: Sat Dec 09, 2006 2:42 pm
Location: No Reading, No Research, Just Strong Opinions

Re: 28 Pgh police officers made more than their police chief

Postby roland on Fri Feb 22, 2013 3:49 pm

Idoit40fans wrote:If you can explain to me how its ok that cops are working a different job and getting paid overtime for it, i'll see your point. The facts are pretty black and white here.


But they aren't working a different job. If they went to Walmart and stocked shelves after work, that would be a different job. They stay in uniform which lets the public know they are dealing with a Pittsburgh Police officer...working as police officer at a specific "police detail". Pretty black and white.

The problem isnt the rank and file working OT. The problem is that the Pgh Police paid the officer for said detail that was worked, the bar/construction crew/whatever then reimburses the Pgh Police....after that, the money was sent to the wrong account and not into the account that it was suppose to. There lies the problem.
roland
ECHL'er
ECHL'er
 
Posts: 888
Joined: Fri Oct 06, 2006 1:08 pm

Re: 28 Pgh police officers made more than their police chief

Postby BigMcK on Fri Feb 22, 2013 3:54 pm

roland wrote:I was under the impression that it didn't matter if it was your last 3 years but your 3 "highest" years throughout your career.

You may be correct that it is 3 of the highest compensated years they draw from, but from a couple the former officers that I know, Jr. officers usually don't get to pick all the OT hours that they would like due to seniority. There was a Sr. guy that would grab all of the OT hours to work MLB and NHL events because he loves sports. Jr. guys didn't get those premium options.

--------------------

roland wrote:as far as getting paid OT for side work, it's necessary because there aren't enough police to go around to cover what's requested. All of the cops that patrol the zone 3 area (southside) would have to be sent to the bars to cover the bars request for police and there wouldn't be any police on the streets. The bar owners, construction crews, private event planners etc. ask for uniformed police officers. Therefore, daylight officers get paid for their normal work day and then go straight to another "detail" (not job) and continue to do the same police work that they did during their previous shift. Keep in mind that the officers who work at night may have to go to court for an 8am hearing at times as well...which they get paid for in OT as well since it's before their shift. Plenty of police departments work this way and each department usually has a handful of officers that are known to work EVERYTHING. They have no lives outside of work, rarely see family...but they make more than their Chief...a lot more because they put in a TON of extra hours.

Don't forget OT pay is time and half, sunday pay is double time, and holiday pay (winter classic) is double time and half.


A neighbor is a Captain for LA Fire Dept. and told me that in certain departments funerals for fallen officers are considered 'paid time', with most resulting in OT. Like you said, there are known officers that sign up to attend services because of the hours they can log. Very sad.
BigMcK
ECHL'er
ECHL'er
 
Posts: 2,132
Joined: Thu Mar 25, 2010 4:23 pm
Location: Are you there, yet?

Re: 28 Pgh police officers made more than their police chief

Postby Sam's Drunk Dog on Fri Feb 22, 2013 4:17 pm

To clarify my earlier comments, officers working security detail for bars could be totally fine as long as proper procedures were followed and the time paid for was actually worked.
Sam's Drunk Dog
NHL Fourth Liner
NHL Fourth Liner
 
Posts: 19,374
Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2006 12:31 pm
Location: Behind Enemy Lines

Re: 28 Pgh police officers made more than their police chief

Postby pfim on Fri Feb 22, 2013 4:24 pm

Spangler wrote:My brother is a cop outside of PA, and he works a ton of extra events as OT. He may end up working all day. If you put the work in, you should be paid.

The media always makes the cops look bad where he's from. A crackhead could be opening fire in a public area, forcing them to shoot him, and the media always focuses on shooters family to make it look tragic. That example has actually happened.

He says the media never tells the full story.


While I understand it's an extreme example, if the cop's salary is $66k and he makes an additional $105k, that means he's working, on average, 80 to 90 hours a week for an entire year.

I don't blame him for doing so if he's putting in the time, but that's incredibly wasteful.
pfim
NHL Fourth Liner
NHL Fourth Liner
 
Posts: 16,789
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2006 8:35 am
Location: Sitting in front of my computer

Re: 28 Pgh police officers made more than their police chief

Postby mac5155 on Fri Feb 22, 2013 4:25 pm

pfim wrote:
Spangler wrote:My brother is a cop outside of PA, and he works a ton of extra events as OT. He may end up working all day. If you put the work in, you should be paid.

The media always makes the cops look bad where he's from. A crackhead could be opening fire in a public area, forcing them to shoot him, and the media always focuses on shooters family to make it look tragic. That example has actually happened.

He says the media never tells the full story.


While I understand it's an extreme example, if the cop's salary is $66k and he makes an additional $105k, that means he's working, on average, 80 to 90 hours a week for an entire year.

I don't blame him for doing so if he's putting in the time, but that's incredibly wasteful.


YEah, and if a cop is logging 90 hours a week, it would be cheaper to pay the "overhead" to hire more workers.
mac5155
NHL Third Liner
NHL Third Liner
 
Posts: 47,786
Joined: Wed Dec 20, 2006 9:06 pm
Location: governor of Fayettenam

Re: 28 Pgh police officers made more than their police chief

Postby Letang Is The Truth on Fri Feb 22, 2013 4:37 pm

Sam's Drunk Dog wrote:To clarify my earlier comments, officers working security detail for bars could be totally fine as long as proper procedures were followed and the time paid for was actually worked.


i think this is the point that needs focused on. they were not working a different job. they were operating within the duties of their normal job and receiving payment (indirectly) from their employer for it. what remains to be seen if the wages that were paid match the hours that worked
Letang Is The Truth
NHL Fourth Liner
NHL Fourth Liner
 
Posts: 24,211
Joined: Fri Oct 31, 2008 2:59 pm
Location: The Panda Will Fly Away On A Rainbow

Re: 28 Pgh police officers made more than their police chief

Postby Letang Is The Truth on Fri Feb 22, 2013 4:41 pm

mac5155 wrote:
pfim wrote:
Spangler wrote:My brother is a cop outside of PA, and he works a ton of extra events as OT. He may end up working all day. If you put the work in, you should be paid.

The media always makes the cops look bad where he's from. A crackhead could be opening fire in a public area, forcing them to shoot him, and the media always focuses on shooters family to make it look tragic. That example has actually happened.

He says the media never tells the full story.


While I understand it's an extreme example, if the cop's salary is $66k and he makes an additional $105k, that means he's working, on average, 80 to 90 hours a week for an entire year.

I don't blame him for doing so if he's putting in the time, but that's incredibly wasteful.


YEah, and if a cop is logging 90 hours a week, it would be cheaper to pay the "overhead" to hire more workers.


would it? in the example listed above the officer is making 39k greater than his normal wage. if he is issued that by working an extra 30 hours per week, this is about 1700 hours yearly. with pensions, bennys, etc you arent going to find someone to work 1700 hours and pay them 39k
Letang Is The Truth
NHL Fourth Liner
NHL Fourth Liner
 
Posts: 24,211
Joined: Fri Oct 31, 2008 2:59 pm
Location: The Panda Will Fly Away On A Rainbow

Re: 28 Pgh police officers made more than their police chief

Postby Sam's Drunk Dog on Fri Feb 22, 2013 4:43 pm

Exactly. Especially if the money the bars paid to fund the officers was based on the hours worked and then the funds were diverted to another account.
Sam's Drunk Dog
NHL Fourth Liner
NHL Fourth Liner
 
Posts: 19,374
Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2006 12:31 pm
Location: Behind Enemy Lines

Re: 28 Pgh police officers made more than their police chief

Postby roland on Fri Feb 22, 2013 4:46 pm

pfim wrote:While I understand it's an extreme example, if the cop's salary is $66k and he makes an additional $105k, that means he's working, on average, 80 to 90 hours a week for an entire year.

I don't blame him for doing so if he's putting in the time, but that's incredibly wasteful.


Keep in mind OT can be either "time and half" "double time" and "double time and half"

Steeler Sunday: double time
Pirate Home games: time and half / double time
Pens home games: time and half / double time
4th of July, Regatta: time and a half / double time / double time and half
Construction "season"/road work: time and half / double time
...every other daily mundane event where 1 or 2 officers are requested to work somewhere throughout the city: time and a half


nice paychecks if you want to work 7 days a week..and there are officer who do. That list showed only the top 30 of 900 officers.
roland
ECHL'er
ECHL'er
 
Posts: 888
Joined: Fri Oct 06, 2006 1:08 pm

Re: 28 Pgh police officers made more than their police chief

Postby pfim on Fri Feb 22, 2013 4:59 pm

Letang Is The Truth wrote:
mac5155 wrote:
pfim wrote:
Spangler wrote:My brother is a cop outside of PA, and he works a ton of extra events as OT. He may end up working all day. If you put the work in, you should be paid.

The media always makes the cops look bad where he's from. A crackhead could be opening fire in a public area, forcing them to shoot him, and the media always focuses on shooters family to make it look tragic. That example has actually happened.

He says the media never tells the full story.


While I understand it's an extreme example, if the cop's salary is $66k and he makes an additional $105k, that means he's working, on average, 80 to 90 hours a week for an entire year.

I don't blame him for doing so if he's putting in the time, but that's incredibly wasteful.


YEah, and if a cop is logging 90 hours a week, it would be cheaper to pay the "overhead" to hire more workers.


would it? in the example listed above the officer is making 39k greater than his normal wage. if he is issued that by working an extra 30 hours per week, this is about 1700 hours yearly. with pensions, bennys, etc you arent going to find someone to work 1700 hours and pay them 39k


No, you misunderstand. His salary is $66k. His premium time paid is $105k. Total compensation: $171k.
pfim
NHL Fourth Liner
NHL Fourth Liner
 
Posts: 16,789
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2006 8:35 am
Location: Sitting in front of my computer

Re: 28 Pgh police officers made more than their police chief

Postby mac5155 on Fri Feb 22, 2013 5:05 pm

Part time officers would be the best bet. Of course then you probably get into union issues.
mac5155
NHL Third Liner
NHL Third Liner
 
Posts: 47,786
Joined: Wed Dec 20, 2006 9:06 pm
Location: governor of Fayettenam

PreviousNext

Return to NHR

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Cagsjr724, Grunthy and 8 guests


e-mail