Movie

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Re: Movie

Postby skullman80 on Tue Feb 26, 2013 11:40 am

I think she used a body double in that movie for those scenes.

Edit: I take that back I don't think she did.
Last edited by skullman80 on Tue Feb 26, 2013 11:40 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Movie

Postby Froggy on Tue Feb 26, 2013 11:47 am

Yeah, no way it could have been a double
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Re: Movie

Postby Pavel Bure on Tue Feb 26, 2013 11:58 am

skullman80 wrote:I think she used a body double in that movie for those scenes.

Edit: I take that back I don't think she did.

I think in this instance, "I take that back." translates to, "I just went and watched those scenes again just to make sure... for research... in the interest of being thorough."
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Re: Movie

Postby shafnutz05 on Tue Feb 26, 2013 12:02 pm

Eismann wrote: And I have a renewed respect for M. Tomei's goodies.


My thoughts exactly after seeing that.
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Re: Movie

Postby tifosi77 on Tue Feb 26, 2013 12:37 pm

eddysnake wrote:Don't the VFX teams bid out for these projects essentially putting themselves into these positions? I don't doubt that this is a serious issue, but I'd worry less about what Ang Lee said and more about the VFX industry with technology being where it is today. That was a dick move by the academy producers though.

A big part of the problem is something like $400 million in "subsidies" from the Canadian government to lure post production companies up north. This allows the post houses to underbid projects by absolutely ridiculous amounts. It goes like this: Canadian gov't will give a U.S. post house a $5 million tax credit to move their operations to Vancouver (hiring local artists, compositors, animators, etc) for the eighteen months needed to complete their work, which allows said house to underbid a job by that $5 million...... a job which might be worth $12 million on the 'fair' market. That's a 40% discount.

It would be one thing if the Canadian gov't was offering the subsidies to Canadian businesses. That's kosher. But by offering the subsidies to U.S. companies to lure them up north, that is against the express provisions of the WTO agreement, and it needs to be called out. It has had a really deleterious effect on the local entertainment industry. This practice has been going on since the late 90s when so-called 'runaway productions' were gaining in popularity. For example, almost all of "The X-Files" was shot in Canada, thanks to these massive government subsidies. It's only just recently that it's really coming to the VFX community.

There is also a growing practice of U.S. post houses winning bids by matching the subsidy-bolstered bids, and then using unpaid college interns to do a huge chunk of the work. That's not cool, either. But it's one of the only ways the U.S. companies can compete. Sucks.
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Re: Movie

Postby skullman80 on Tue Feb 26, 2013 12:42 pm

Pavel Bure wrote:
skullman80 wrote:I think she used a body double in that movie for those scenes.

Edit: I take that back I don't think she did.

I think in this instance, "I take that back." translates to, "I just went and watched those scenes again just to make sure... for research... in the interest of being thorough."


Ha ha. I'm at work so I didn't, but I will when I go home to confirm.
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Re: Movie

Postby eddysnake on Tue Feb 26, 2013 12:46 pm

tifosi77 wrote:
eddysnake wrote:Don't the VFX teams bid out for these projects essentially putting themselves into these positions? I don't doubt that this is a serious issue, but I'd worry less about what Ang Lee said and more about the VFX industry with technology being where it is today. That was a dick move by the academy producers though.

A big part of the problem is something like $400 million in "subsidies" from the Canadian government to lure post production companies up north. This allows the post houses to underbid projects by absolutely ridiculous amounts. It goes like this: Canadian gov't will give a U.S. post house a $5 million tax credit to move their operations to Vancouver (hiring local artists, compositors, animators, etc) for the eighteen months needed to complete their work, which allows said house to underbid a job by that $5 million...... a job which might be worth $12 million on the 'fair' market. That's a 40% discount.

It would be one thing if the Canadian gov't was offering the subsidies to Canadian businesses. That's kosher. But by offering the subsidies to U.S. companies to lure them up north, that is against the express provisions of the WTO agreement, and it needs to be called out. It has had a really deleterious effect on the local entertainment industry. This practice has been going on since the late 90s when so-called 'runaway productions' were gaining in popularity. For example, almost all of "The X-Files" was shot in Canada, thanks to these massive government subsidies. It's only just recently that it's really coming to the VFX community.

There is also a growing practice of U.S. post houses winning bids by matching the subsidy-bolstered bids, and then using unpaid college interns to do a huge chunk of the work. That's not cool, either. But it's one of the only ways the U.S. companies can compete. Sucks.


that's interesting and unfortunate. Sounds like the VFX industry needs to make a stand together, unfortunately with the business being a money game, that might me easier said than done.
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Re: Movie

Postby pittsoccer33 on Tue Feb 26, 2013 12:46 pm

yea i enjoyed the irony of all these, how should i say, somewhat left leaning hollywood types going to canada to avoid paying their fair share :)
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Re: Movie

Postby pittsoccer33 on Tue Feb 26, 2013 12:52 pm

how long until cgi is a commodity or close to it? how long until a small independent production company can effectively pull off a movie like Transformers or Avatar?

I think it will be much sooner than later. It's happened in the music industry - a group like Breathe Carolina releases professional sounding recordings that were made with nothing more than a Macbook.

This film is getting some interest in Hollywood. It was something a single german animation student put together. Alone, without a kabillion dollars worth of servers.

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/heat-v ... ing-411105
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Re: Movie

Postby Hockeynut! on Tue Feb 26, 2013 1:33 pm

tifosi77 wrote: This practice has been going on since the late 90s when so-called 'runaway productions' were gaining in popularity. For example, almost all of "The X-Files" was shot in Canada, thanks to these massive government subsidies.


I'll take Canada over eastern Europe. I get so tired of seeing Bulgaria standing Anytown, USA. :lol:
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Re: Movie

Postby cheesesteakwithegg on Tue Feb 26, 2013 1:35 pm

Saw the new Die Hard. Wasn't terrible, but wasn't as good as the older ones. When I went to see this on Saturday, it was my first time at the movies since 2007. I was worried if they still served popcorn at the theaters, and am happy to report that they still do.
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Re: Movie

Postby Idoit40fans on Tue Feb 26, 2013 1:46 pm

I went through a long drought of movies theater movies, but i've seen a few recently. Life of Pi was the most recent one. I think I saw that Thanksgiving night.
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Re: Movie

Postby tifosi77 on Tue Feb 26, 2013 3:07 pm

pittsoccer33 wrote:how long until cgi is a commodity or close to it? how long until a small independent production company can effectively pull off a movie like Transformers or Avatar?

I think it will be much sooner than later. It's happened in the music industry - a group like Breathe Carolina releases professional sounding recordings that were made with nothing more than a Macbook.

Well, look at a film like "District 9". It was made for a total budget of ~$30 million.... which might only be a portion the effects budget alone on a show like "Transformers".

pittsoccer33 wrote:This film is getting some interest in Hollywood. It was something a single german animation student put together. Alone, without a kabillion dollars worth of servers.

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/heat-v ... ing-411105

That's a wonderful reel, a résumé to get a job at a shop that has a kabillion dollars worth of servers. Because it still takes that to make photo-real imagery.
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Re: Movie

Postby tifosi77 on Tue Feb 26, 2013 3:09 pm

Turn off the internet, this is as good as it gets.

Image
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Re: Movie

Postby eddysnake on Tue Feb 26, 2013 3:31 pm

tifosi77 wrote:Turn off the internet, this is as good as it gets.

Image



So is Ang Lee going to be the poster boy for not thanking his VSX team? Is this going to be a future requirement? What about all the winners in the past? IMO, the VSX industry comes off being extremely whiny when these images/stories come out (granted they did not to this, but it still reflects on them). It's really too bad that it works how it does, but then again it's hollywood and money is king. I get that Ang Lee is a producer on Life of Pi, so he probably had a hand in hiring the VSX team, but it feels like he's getting a bad rap by doing business as usual.
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Re: Movie

Postby pittsoccer33 on Tue Feb 26, 2013 3:40 pm

tifosi77 wrote:

That's a wonderful reel, a résumé to get a job at a shop that has a kabillion dollars worth of servers. Because it still takes that to make photo-real imagery.


I guess my point is, in music we've stopped caring about real performances because with the digital tools we've developed we can get a really good recording (in the ears of most listeners) without actually having any musicians or musical instruments used to make it.

How far away are we from budget effects studios being able to use relatively mainstream CGI tools to create digital characters and environments with proper 3D lighting, shading, etc?
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Re: Movie

Postby eddysnake on Tue Feb 26, 2013 3:52 pm

pittsoccer33 wrote:
tifosi77 wrote:

That's a wonderful reel, a résumé to get a job at a shop that has a kabillion dollars worth of servers. Because it still takes that to make photo-real imagery.



How far away are we from budget effects studios being able to use relatively mainstream CGI tools to create digital characters and environments with proper 3D lighting, shading, etc?


I'd say we are there if these companies are putting in bids low enough that they are not getting paid duly, yet the execs are happy.
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Re: Movie

Postby pittsoccer33 on Tue Feb 26, 2013 3:56 pm

you still have real artists though working on this stuff, putting in the minor details that make little things realistic.

for example, the guy who developed the lighting program on Star Wars III that allowed Yoda's ear lobes to glow slightly when he passed infront of a light source - just the way a real ear glows a translucent pinkish.

or the person who animated the Hulk in Avengers. the script just said something like "Hulk fights off numerous Chetari" but some creative person added his kicking and tossing motions.
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Re: Movie

Postby eddysnake on Tue Feb 26, 2013 4:02 pm

absolutely they are all artists, but with technology and cross training, I'm guessing the field of artists is much larger and accessible than it was in the past. you no longer have 6 houses doing the work and charging what they want
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Re: Movie

Postby tifosi77 on Tue Feb 26, 2013 4:07 pm

eddysnake wrote:I get that Ang Lee is a producer on Life of Pi, so he probably had a hand in hiring the VSX team, but it feels like he's getting a bad rap by doing business as usual.

That's kind of the problem.... this is business as usual. It's just now, business as usual is forcing some major effect houses (Digital Domain, Rhythm & Hues) into Chapter 11.

Should also point out that VFX is one of the few (only?) disciplines in the movie industry that has no collective bargaining arrangement. Not sure why that is, in a town that will literally shut down a set if it is learned that an actor drove themselves to the lot that morning.

That's where the term "TMZ" comes from, for the uninitiated. Productions that take place within a Thirty Mile Zone surrounding the intersection of Beverly and La Cienega (near the Beverly Center mall, which was destroyed in the movie "Volcano") are subject to the full panoply of union rates for everything from Teamsters to craft services to the Director of Photography to the Director to the actors on set.
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Re: Movie

Postby eddysnake on Tue Feb 26, 2013 4:28 pm

tifosi77 wrote:
eddysnake wrote:I get that Ang Lee is a producer on Life of Pi, so he probably had a hand in hiring the VSX team, but it feels like he's getting a bad rap by doing business as usual.

That's kind of the problem.... this is business as usual. It's just now, business as usual is forcing some major effect houses (Digital Domain, Rhythm & Hues) into Chapter 11.

Should also point out that VFX is one of the few (only?) disciplines in the movie industry that has no collective bargaining arrangement. Not sure why that is, in a town that will literally shut down a set if it is learned that an actor drove themselves to the lot that morning.

That's where the term "TMZ" comes from, for the uninitiated. Productions that take place within a Thirty Mile Zone surrounding the intersection of Beverly and La Cienega (near the Beverly Center mall, which was destroyed in the movie "Volcano") are subject to the full panoply of union rates for everything from Teamsters to craft services to the Director of Photography to the Director to the actors on set.


R&H just recently filed, was this because of work on Life of Pi or was it their current project ? Business as usual has obviously been the problem, hopefully they can do something about that, but it's a little surprising it's gone this long and finger pointing is where their at.

edit:
pretty good article talking about R&H troubles.

R&H's financial downward financial spiral began in 2011 when Universal cancelled part of a contract on "Snow White and the Huntsman" after staffing and R&D were under way. Company sought an equity investor but their first deal fell through when the Digital Domain bankruptcy frightened off the potential partner. By January Warner, Fox and Universal had to step in to keep work moving. Fox and U. wanted R&H to declare bankruptcy, but Warners insisted it would pull its work if that happened. The trio settled on a financial mechanism one insider described as "neither a loan nor an investment."

Prime Focus stepped in as a potential buyer but was unable to raise the necessary funds to acquire R&H. At that point, R&H management decided bankruptcy was the best option. Warners is weighing its decision on how to proceed and negotiations with all three studios on the future of R&H's projects are ongoing.


http://www.variety.com/article/VR1118066050/
Last edited by eddysnake on Tue Feb 26, 2013 4:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Movie

Postby eddysnake on Tue Feb 26, 2013 4:42 pm

another interesting read on the subject

http://www.indiegogo.com/EndVfxSubsidies
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Re: Movie

Postby tifosi77 on Tue Feb 26, 2013 8:48 pm

eddysnake wrote:another interesting read on the subject

http://www.indiegogo.com/EndVfxSubsidies

That's the guy that runs the blog I cited earlier. Apparently he's quite cross.
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Re: Movie

Postby legame on Wed Feb 27, 2013 5:29 am

Say goodnight, Raquel. Good night Raquel.
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Re: Movie

Postby tifosi77 on Wed Feb 27, 2013 12:04 pm

Monster Joe's Truck and Tow.

On another note, I just found out that Weta Digital - in Wellington, NZ - employs over 400 VFX artists that need visas to work there. 'Business as usual'.
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