NHL realignment on the table again.

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Re: NHL realignment on the table again.

Postby slappybrown on Tue Feb 26, 2013 8:13 pm

pens2005 wrote:
slappybrown wrote: Lets say TOR was the 4 from the other side and had the fewest pts of any playoff team and PIT won the Preisdents Trophy. We could play a NYR with one pt less than us, and not a TOR team that is the worst of all playoff teams if TOR wins.



This is my point. It wouldn't make sense for us to play NYR, we should play the worst playoff team remaining (TOR). Not sure of your point, here.

EDIT: I get what you're saying...forget it.

Just seems weird to me.

I don't know how old you are, but that's the way it worked in the Patrick/Adams/Smythe/Norris days. I miss those days. I agree with you it is not the "fairest" system, but IMO, its the most entertaining/interesting.
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Re: NHL realignment on the table again.

Postby slappybrown on Tue Feb 26, 2013 8:17 pm

Rocco wrote:
slappybrown wrote:Rocco doesn't like something? I'm stunned.


Flip Nashville and Winnipeg. It's not rocket science. You have even divisions that make sense geographically. Problem solved. If you later add teams like everyone expects then you can set up 8-team divisions.

Except it doesn't. As much as I dislike stumping for DET, you have them and Columbus playing the vast majority of their games in the Central/Mountain/Pacific time zones. It makes little sense. This remedies that issue; your proposal doesn't. This also increases the value of the league from a TV perspective, with multiple DET v. TOR/MTL/BOS/BUF, plus really helping a struggling franchise in COL by giving them 4-5 games vs. PIT a year. This is definitely a better plan for the overall health of the NHL. And not in the sense of "Let's put teams in markets they don't belong because we need to be in the Sun Belt"; its actually good for the game and rivalries. The only real downside is the loss of CHI-DET.
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Re: NHL realignment on the table again.

Postby Rocco on Tue Feb 26, 2013 9:59 pm

slappybrown wrote:
Rocco wrote:
slappybrown wrote:Rocco doesn't like something? I'm stunned.


Flip Nashville and Winnipeg. It's not rocket science. You have even divisions that make sense geographically. Problem solved. If you later add teams like everyone expects then you can set up 8-team divisions.

Except it doesn't. As much as I dislike stumping for DET, you have them and Columbus playing the vast majority of their games in the Central/Mountain/Pacific time zones. It makes little sense. This remedies that issue; your proposal doesn't. This also increases the value of the league from a TV perspective, with multiple DET v. TOR/MTL/BOS/BUF, plus really helping a struggling franchise in COL by giving them 4-5 games vs. PIT a year. This is definitely a better plan for the overall health of the NHL. And not in the sense of "Let's put teams in markets they don't belong because we need to be in the Sun Belt"; its actually good for the game and rivalries. The only real downside is the loss of CHI-DET.


41 of Detroit's home games are played, by definition, in the eastern time zone. Same for Columbus. Can't really say they're playing the "vast majority" of their games in other time zones. You're basically shifting the problems by moving Detroit, torching the various rivalries they've established with Western teams, ripping away the West's largest marquee franchise and creating an inbalance in the divisions for no other reason than "because we can". The Florida teams are tacked on to a division with teams in the Northeast, which seems to defeat the purpose of reducing travel for teams.

Quite frankly, if Columbus is having serious problems, a few games with Pittsburgh isn't going to save them. And losing Chicago-Detroit is significant and doesn't really have to happen.
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Re: NHL realignment on the table again.

Postby slappybrown on Tue Feb 26, 2013 10:57 pm

Rocco wrote:
slappybrown wrote:
Rocco wrote:
slappybrown wrote:Rocco doesn't like something? I'm stunned.


Flip Nashville and Winnipeg. It's not rocket science. You have even divisions that make sense geographically. Problem solved. If you later add teams like everyone expects then you can set up 8-team divisions.

Except it doesn't. As much as I dislike stumping for DET, you have them and Columbus playing the vast majority of their games in the Central/Mountain/Pacific time zones. It makes little sense. This remedies that issue; your proposal doesn't. This also increases the value of the league from a TV perspective, with multiple DET v. TOR/MTL/BOS/BUF, plus really helping a struggling franchise in COL by giving them 4-5 games vs. PIT a year. This is definitely a better plan for the overall health of the NHL. And not in the sense of "Let's put teams in markets they don't belong because we need to be in the Sun Belt"; its actually good for the game and rivalries. The only real downside is the loss of CHI-DET.


41 of Detroit's home games are played, by definition, in the eastern time zone. Same for Columbus. Can't really say they're playing the "vast majority" of their games in other time zones. You're basically shifting the problems by moving Detroit, torching the various rivalries they've established with Western teams, ripping away the West's largest marquee franchise and creating an inbalance in the divisions for no other reason than "because we can". The Florida teams are tacked on to a division with teams in the Northeast, which seems to defeat the purpose of reducing travel for teams.

Quite frankly, if Columbus is having serious problems, a few games with Pittsburgh isn't going to save them. And losing Chicago-Detroit is significant and doesn't really have to happen.

Really? You're going to be intentionally obtuse and pretend you don't know I mean their road games?

Additionally, its not "because we can." The reasons were identified. TV loves the plan. You don't have to like it, but you can do better than (1) intentionally misinterpreting my post and (2) claiming its "because we can."

The CHI-DET thing I said I agree is a loss, and is a great, historic rivalry. The Florida teams are isolated no matter what. The nearest franchises are probably Nashville and Carolina, and good luck building a division with those 4 plus...who? The snowbird population is obviously huge in FL and should help their TV numbers and assist in their actually selling tickets at non-discount prices. Losing DET weakens the Midwest, but the teams make sense geographically, and the gains for moving DET outweigh the negative IMO.
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Re: NHL realignment on the table again.

Postby MRandall25 on Tue Feb 26, 2013 11:34 pm

Detroit-Toronto was a huge rivalry before they were split into East and West.
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Re: NHL realignment on the table again.

Postby Mr. Colby on Tue Feb 26, 2013 11:36 pm

Why would they agree to have one conference with 50% of the teams making the playoffs and the other conference with 57% making it? Especially when a VAST majority of league revenue is coming from the former (3 of top 4 Canadian markets, plus all the top American markets except Chicago and maybe LA)
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Re: NHL realignment on the table again.

Postby columbia on Tue Feb 26, 2013 11:38 pm

Mr. Colby wrote:Why would they agree to have one conference with 50% of the teams making the playoffs and the other conference with 57% making it? Especially when a VAST majority of league revenue is coming from the former (3 of top 4 Canadian markets, plus all the top American markets except Chicago and maybe LA)


As a NL baseball fan, you don't find that inequity to be familiar?
The league will survive just fine, for hoever this arrangement lasts.
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Re: NHL realignment on the table again.

Postby Guido on Tue Feb 26, 2013 11:44 pm

Can't have 16 teams in the East and 14 in the West. That's absolute crap. Very unfair for teams making the playoffs. Furthermore, this format makes things needlessly confusing.
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Re: NHL realignment on the table again.

Postby Idoit40fans on Wed Feb 27, 2013 9:17 am

4 divisions is going to make things needlessly confusing no matter what. This is stupid.
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Re: NHL realignment on the table again.

Postby no name on Wed Feb 27, 2013 9:23 am

I can't wait til it goes to 32 teams, not crazy about this format but i guess we will have to deal with it.

Also would of liked our division to be
Detroit, Columbus, Penguins, Washington, Philadelphia, Tampa Bay, Florida, Carolina.
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Re: NHL realignment on the table again.

Postby Kovy27 on Wed Feb 27, 2013 9:34 am

If they do 16 in the East, what happens when Quebec or TO gets a team? See, it doesn't make sense...
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Re: NHL realignment on the table again.

Postby Beveridge on Wed Feb 27, 2013 11:11 am

Kovy27 wrote:If they do 16 in the East, what happens when Quebec or TO gets a team? See, it doesn't make sense...


Future tinkering

The league-wide memo indicates the NHL and the NHLPA will meet after the 2015-16 season to see if this is working, "or earlier if circumstances warrant." So there's your "out" for expansion or relocation, should one (or both) of those possibilities exist.
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Re: NHL realignment on the table again.

Postby Admin on Wed Feb 27, 2013 11:27 am

Why don't they wait to re-align until after the next expansion? What's the rush?
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Re: NHL realignment on the table again.

Postby Beveridge on Wed Feb 27, 2013 11:30 am

Admin wrote:Why don't they wait to re-align until after the next expansion? What's the rush?



I think Winnipeg is the only reason and players have the upper hand on this because they could vote no to anything simple short term and keep things how they are.

Working the leverage they have on this big time.

At least this is my working theory. I could be wayyyyyy off.
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Re: NHL realignment on the table again.

Postby MRandall25 on Wed Feb 27, 2013 11:31 am

Admin wrote:Why don't they wait to re-align until after the next expansion? What's the rush?


I feel like Detroit has been whining about this for some time.
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Re: NHL realignment on the table again.

Postby penscup on Wed Feb 27, 2013 7:01 pm

If they were going the 4 division route and Detroit was insisting on moving east it should have been this:

1. TOR/MTL/OTT/BUF/BOS/NYR/NYI
2. DET/PIT/PHI/WSH/NJ/CAR/TB/FLA
3. VAN/CGY/EDM/SJ/LAK/ANH/PHX/COL
4. WIN/MIN/CHI/STL/CLB/NSH/DAL

Keeps both Conferences at 15 teams.
Top 8 make the playoffs just like it is now - none of this wildcard crap.

Most of the good rivalries are kept in place with this format. Keep CLB out west for now since that is where they started and nobody cares about them anyway (yes it would be optimal to have them as rivals with the Pens but not at the expense of the entire league). If NJ really puts up a stink about separating from NY then flip them over to that division. Same with COL - let them choose whichever division they prefer.

Putting the Florida teams in a division with MTL/OTT/TOR and not with CAR is just dumb geographically and none of them can be happy with all that increased travel. I'm just glad Pens stayed with their old division rivals and added a couple good new ones too so can't complain too much, but overall this could have been a lot better.
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Re: NHL realignment on the table again.

Postby DelPen on Wed Feb 27, 2013 7:57 pm

Easy fix is moving Columbus to SE, Winnipeg to NW and Minnesota to Central. Then see where Phoenix and Florida are after the can't get solid owners.
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Re: NHL realignment on the table again.

Postby Mr. Colby on Wed Feb 27, 2013 8:13 pm

columbia wrote:
Mr. Colby wrote:Why would they agree to have one conference with 50% of the teams making the playoffs and the other conference with 57% making it? Especially when a VAST majority of league revenue is coming from the former (3 of top 4 Canadian markets, plus all the top American markets except Chicago and maybe LA)


As a NL baseball fan, you don't find that inequity to be familiar?
The league will survive just fine, for hoever this arrangement lasts.


It was different in baseball though, because a) only one team made it from each division and b) with games every single day, you need to have an even number in each league.

Not sure what made them move to 15 and 15, but if they want to sit down and figure out that scheduling nightmare every year then more power to em.

Anything other than six 5-team divisions in the NHL at this point is just dumb
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Re: NHL realignment on the table again.

Postby Fire0nice228 on Wed Feb 27, 2013 8:22 pm

penscup wrote:If they were going the 4 division route and Detroit was insisting on moving east it should have been this:

1. TOR/MTL/OTT/BUF/BOS/NYR/NYI
2. DET/PIT/PHI/WSH/NJ/CAR/TB/FLA
3. VAN/CGY/EDM/SJ/LAK/ANH/PHX/COL
4. WIN/MIN/CHI/STL/CLB/NSH/DAL
.


I like this. :thumb:

Why would this not work? The snowbirds in Florida? The time zones don't seem too bad..some of those Western teams will have long flights from CGY/EDM down to So Cal but can't be as bad as flying to NSH and DET/CLB
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Re: NHL realignment on the table again.

Postby columbia on Wed Feb 27, 2013 8:27 pm

Mine would be:

1. TOR/MTL/OTT/BUF/BOS/CAR/TB/FLA
2. DET/PIT/PHI/WSH/NJ/NYR/NYI/CLB
3. VAN/CGY/EDM/SJ/LAK/ANH/PHX
4. WIN/MIN/CHI/STL/NSH/DAL/COL
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Re: NHL realignment on the table again.

Postby MRandall25 on Wed Feb 27, 2013 8:37 pm

columbia wrote:Mine would be:

1. TOR/MTL/OTT/BUF/BOS/CAR/TB/FLA
2. DET/PIT/PHI/WSH/NJ/NYR/NYI/CLB
3. VAN/CGY/EDM/SJ/LAK/ANH/PHX
4. WIN/MIN/CHI/STL/NSH/DAL/COL


A lot of teams in that 2nd division would be pissed if only 4 from each make the playoffs.
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Re: NHL realignment on the table again.

Postby Bioshock on Wed Feb 27, 2013 9:13 pm

THIS!!!

Image
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Re: NHL realignment on the table again.

Postby Digitalgypsy66 on Wed Feb 27, 2013 9:30 pm

Yeah, that makes too much sense.

I love the rivalry pairs, too - the Pens would play the Wild (Pittsburgh West) and Columbus (Geographical). They even have the Wings playing the Avs and Hawks. Perfect.
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Re: NHL realignment on the table again.

Postby BurghersAndDogsSports on Wed Feb 27, 2013 9:47 pm

Detroit became more if a issue when tv money became more important. Locally and nationally as teams are making piles of cash in their own deals and I am sure NBC was just thrilled with putting Detroit home games on at 4:30 out west and having wings away playoff games end at 1:00 am. Their advertisers probably loved that.

We need to think beyond Columbus needing rivalry help and look at the big picture.

As far as the playoffs go all teams in the NHL need an equal shot because most need them to make money. It doesn't matter in MLB, in factors teams makeover money by keeping payroll low.

If the pirates needed the playoffs like the pens do believe me the MLB leagues would have been even years ago.
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Re: NHL realignment on the table again.

Postby MRandall25 on Wed Feb 27, 2013 9:58 pm

BurghersAndDogsSports wrote:Detroit became more if a issue when tv money became more important. Locally and nationally as teams are making piles of cash in their own deals and I am sure NBC was just thrilled with putting Detroit home games on at 4:30 out west and having wings away playoff games end at 1:00 am. Their advertisers probably loved that.

We need to think beyond Columbus needing rivalry help and look at the big picture.

As far as the playoffs go all teams in the NHL need an equal shot because most need them to make money. It doesn't matter in MLB, in factors teams makeover money by keeping payroll low.

If the pirates needed the playoffs like the pens do believe me the MLB leagues would have been even years ago.


Columbus is in a similar boat as Detroit, only they're rarely on NBC. Since they play a lot of games in Mountain or Pacific, their games are ending around 12 or 1.

You (general) may say "But no one cares about Columbus." That's false. YOU don't care about Columbus. Fact is, Columbus is a better local TV market than the Rangers, Devils, and Kings, if you look at the ratings. Moving them into a division with Pittsburgh and other marquee teams in the East would grow their ratings even further.
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