Official GDT Penguins v Canes 2/28/2013

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Re: Official GDT Penguins v Canes 2/28/2013

Postby columbia on Fri Mar 01, 2013 12:27 am

I understand the instinct to blame it on coaching - hey it worked the last time! - but also feel that it involves some seriously willful naïveté about the gentlemen on the ice. Shero constructed this group of players and it's his responsibility to make some real changes before early April. As constructed, this team is going nowhere.
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Re: Official GDT Penguins v Canes 2/28/2013

Postby MRandall25 on Fri Mar 01, 2013 12:33 am

Tim Thomasen wrote:
MRandall25 wrote:I'd say part of the problem is that, while we do need to do something about the personnel as it currently stands (as mentioned above), there's not much out there that fits what we need and is a reasonable price.

You have to weigh the costs and benefits. Even if a guy costs a second rounder and a roster player (which I believe is what Hal Gill cost last year, just for argument's sake), are we in a position organizational-wise to give up a roster player to fill a need? Sure, if it'll cost a guy we're currently scratching (this is not counting Despres, who is a case by himself), go for it. But if it's one of the players who either is or will be a contributor in some way come playoff time, would you do it?


It depends on the deal. Alot of people here would because they believe that since the team is in a win now mode that we need to think about whats good for us now instead of a few years down the road.


That's why I said "Someone who is or will be a contributor come playoff time" (meaning someone who has proven to be key in the playoffs and is performing now or someone who has proven to be a performer, but isn't up to snuff yet).

I mean, I might as well say I had TK in mind. You need high energy guys like that in the playoffs. If you trade him for a d-man, who do you replace him with? Jeffrey? Boychuk? Call-up from WBS? Make another trade and lose draft picks (which then will have the fans questioning why they don't have any depth because they miss out on possibly drafting a forward)?
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Re: Official GDT Penguins v Canes 2/28/2013

Postby Tim Thomasen on Fri Mar 01, 2013 12:40 am

MRandall25 wrote:
Tim Thomasen wrote:
MRandall25 wrote:I'd say part of the problem is that, while we do need to do something about the personnel as it currently stands (as mentioned above), there's not much out there that fits what we need and is a reasonable price.

You have to weigh the costs and benefits. Even if a guy costs a second rounder and a roster player (which I believe is what Hal Gill cost last year, just for argument's sake), are we in a position organizational-wise to give up a roster player to fill a need? Sure, if it'll cost a guy we're currently scratching (this is not counting Despres, who is a case by himself), go for it. But if it's one of the players who either is or will be a contributor in some way come playoff time, would you do it?


It depends on the deal. Alot of people here would because they believe that since the team is in a win now mode that we need to think about whats good for us now instead of a few years down the road.


That's why I said "Someone who is or will be a contributor come playoff time" (meaning someone who has proven to be key in the playoffs and is performing now or someone who has proven to be a performer, but isn't up to snuff yet).

I mean, I might as well say I had TK in mind. You need high energy guys like that in the playoffs. If you trade him for a d-man, who do you replace him with? Jeffrey? Boychuk? Call-up from WBS? Make another trade and lose draft picks (which then will have the fans questioning why they don't have any depth because they miss out on possibly drafting a forward)?


Hey i'm in agreement with you. I would make a deal if it was right and seeing what it would cost to make said trade and seeing that it wouldn't hamper us in other positions for the reasons you said.
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Re: Official GDT Penguins v Canes 2/28/2013

Postby BurghersAndDogsSports on Fri Mar 01, 2013 12:47 am

columbia wrote:I understand the instinct to blame it on coaching - hey it worked the last time! - but also feel that it involves some seriously willful naïveté about the gentlemen on the ice. Shero constructed this group of players and it's his responsibility to make some real changes before early April. As constructed, this team is going nowhere.


And therein lies a problem. We can argue all day about the pmd drafting plan for trade bait, or shifting a philosophy to skaters and losing grit and defefense.......but......

All that means nothing if players we need are not available. We keep talking Morrow and Iginla but Dallas is in a playoff and spot and Calgary with games and hand is close. Nobody is saying either team thinks they have a shot at the cup, and Calgary isn't hurting cash wise, but it doesn't mean they want to dump players. Getting the playoff money is nice and in some markets a necessity. Getting a pick or prospect might not be with risking 3 home playoff games.

add that into the fact we don't have a ton if tradable assets I don't expect a major overhaul at the deadline.
TK has been bad this year but packing him and a prospect for a UFA rental means we have to find a 3rd ine rental and so forth.

Ps all of you talking abut our record. New Jersey has 2 games in hand on us, we are two NJ victories away from 7th place no matter how we play, Boston has more points and less games, Ottawa has a better record.

That isn't to diminish our record, it's to point out the argument that we should be happy and are being over critical is silly. We have a break in games and NJ goes on a 2 game win streak we are a 7th seed opening in nj. there is room to be nervous is all I am saying.
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Re: Official GDT Penguins v Canes 2/28/2013

Postby DontToewsMeBro on Fri Mar 01, 2013 12:50 am

So now that our PK sucks, can we agree that Adams is a waste of a sweater? A lot of the problem is a lack of leadership, toughness, and grit. I think our problems start there.
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Re: Official GDT Penguins v Canes 2/28/2013

Postby jf on Fri Mar 01, 2013 12:59 am

DontToewsMeBro wrote:So now that our PK sucks, can we agree that Adams is a waste of a sweater? A lot of the problem is a lack of leadership, toughness, and grit. I think our problems start there.

I don't think that the Canes scored a power play goal .
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Re: Official GDT Penguins v Canes 2/28/2013

Postby mikey287 on Fri Mar 01, 2013 1:05 am

Mr. Colby wrote:I wonder where Kay Whitmore works right now


He was a goalie coach for a bit. Then he was briefly on NHL Network. Now he works with the NHL in some capacity, I'm just not positive as to what...
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Re: Official GDT Penguins v Canes 2/28/2013

Postby Tim Thomasen on Fri Mar 01, 2013 1:09 am

mikey287 wrote:
Mr. Colby wrote:I wonder where Kay Whitmore works right now


He was a goalie coach for a bit. Then he was briefly on NHL Network. Now he works with the NHL in some capacity, I'm just not positive as to what...


Goaltending supervisor.
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Re: Official GDT Penguins v Canes 2/28/2013

Postby Lt. Dish on Fri Mar 01, 2013 1:10 am

Random thoughts:


The season is so short...

So, personally, I'm not on the Fire Bylsma train. I think that would derail a short season. I have as much idea as anyone what really goes on in the locker room as anyone (read: none), but I get the sense that the players do want to play well for him. From a management performance perspective, the players, imo, need stability to work through their execution issues. I really think it's mental, and it's like they think they're too talented to play simple; they're drunk on talent and need to sober up and get back to focusing and committing one shift at a time. They need an anchor, not a shakeup. I'm not saying coddle them; this isn't t-ball. I'd like to bring Fitzgerald back around the players in some capacity, even if it's strategy sessions. Certainly, I don't want to oversimplify things, but it seems to me that the team hasn't been the same since he left the bench.

But the season is still long with miles to go until playoff time...

So, whether a season is 82 games or 40, there are still going to be ebbs and flows. Maybe we're in an ebb. Sure, I'm concerned with some chronic issues we're all seeing, but it's not like the issues aren't fixable. This isn't a 24-manure roster. Shero will do what he can on his end to try to improve the team; the question is whether he'll find a tango partner.

I don't wear rose-colored glasses. I actually wear bifocals, and I'm just trying to keep perspective in both short and long terms. Of course, my view on things can get warped, but that's the Stoli.
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Re: Official GDT Penguins v Canes 2/28/2013

Postby BurghersAndDogsSports on Fri Mar 01, 2013 1:18 am

Lt. Dish wrote:Random thoughts:


The season is so short...

So, personally, I'm not on the Fire Bylsma train. I think that would derail a short season. I have as much idea as anyone what really goes on in the locker room as anyone (read: none), but I get the sense that the players do want to play well for him. From a management performance perspective, the players, imo, need stability to work through their execution issues. I really think it's mental, and it's like they think they're too talented to play simple; they're drunk on talent and need to sober up and get back to focusing and committing one shift at a time. They need an anchor, not a shakeup. I'm not saying coddle them; this isn't t-ball. I'd like to bring Fitzgerald back around the players in some capacity, even if it's strategy sessions. Certainly, I don't want to oversimplify things, but it seems to me that the team hasn't been the same since he left the bench.

But the season is still long with miles to go until playoff time...

So, whether a season is 82 games or 40, there are still going to be ebbs and flows. Maybe we're in an ebb. Sure, I'm concerned with some chronic issues we're all seeing, but it's not like the issues aren't fixable. This isn't a 24-manure roster. Shero will do what he can on his end to try to improve the team; the question is whether he'll find a tango partner.

I don't wear rose-colored glasses. I actually wear bifocals, and I'm just trying to keep perspective in both short and long terms. Of course, my view on things can get warped, but that's the Stoli.


No, they are all fair points. It's just most of domt see this as an ebb and flo, it's been awhile now. Fans tend to look at last season and point to things like the winning streak (which was surrounded by losing streaks) as some sort of validation that we can do it. Or when we win two in a row this season.

The bottom line is our troubles that were obvious last season are still there with a less talented roster. I said from the summer people will really notice Staals gone when we need a 2nd line center for a few games. Bennett Sutter Dupuis is about the worst 2nd line in the league.

We have high end talent to inflate some stats (Neal, Dupuis, even our PP% which seems black and white but we have way too may awful pp's) and get us some wins. But same problems, worse roster I'm ok with being skeptical at this point.
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Re: Official GDT Penguins v Canes 2/28/2013

Postby knives of ice on Fri Mar 01, 2013 1:18 am

Pens on the grudge match tour.....good luck against MT in montreal saturday - you're gonna need it. Habs may be most disciplined well coached team in the league this year with awesome goaltending.
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Re: Official GDT Penguins v Canes 2/28/2013

Postby Lt. Dish on Fri Mar 01, 2013 1:25 am

BurghersAndDogsSports wrote:
Lt. Dish wrote:Random thoughts:


The season is so short...

So, personally, I'm not on the Fire Bylsma train. I think that would derail a short season. I have as much idea as anyone what really goes on in the locker room as anyone (read: none), but I get the sense that the players do want to play well for him. From a management performance perspective, the players, imo, need stability to work through their execution issues. I really think it's mental, and it's like they think they're too talented to play simple; they're drunk on talent and need to sober up and get back to focusing and committing one shift at a time. They need an anchor, not a shakeup. I'm not saying coddle them; this isn't t-ball. I'd like to bring Fitzgerald back around the players in some capacity, even if it's strategy sessions. Certainly, I don't want to oversimplify things, but it seems to me that the team hasn't been the same since he left the bench.

But the season is still long with miles to go until playoff time...

So, whether a season is 82 games or 40, there are still going to be ebbs and flows. Maybe we're in an ebb. Sure, I'm concerned with some chronic issues we're all seeing, but it's not like the issues aren't fixable. This isn't a 24-manure roster. Shero will do what he can on his end to try to improve the team; the question is whether he'll find a tango partner.

I don't wear rose-colored glasses. I actually wear bifocals, and I'm just trying to keep perspective in both short and long terms. Of course, my view on things can get warped, but that's the Stoli.


No, they are all fair points. It's just most of domt see this as an ebb and flo, it's been awhile now. Fans tend to look at last season and point to things like the winning streak (which was surrounded by losing streaks) as some sort of validation that we can do it. Or when we win two in a row this season.

The bottom line is our troubles that were obvious last season are still there with a less talented roster. I said from the summer people will really notice Staals gone when we need a 2nd line center for a few games. Bennett Sutter Dupuis is about the worst 2nd line in the league.

We have high end talent to inflate some stats (Neal, Dupuis, even our PP% which seems black and white but we have way too may awful pp's) and get us some wins. But same problems, worse roster I'm ok with being skeptical at this point.


Thanks, BADS. And yep, that's fair, as well. The highs are really high (man) and the lows are really low, and we need a steady rhythm. I remember you saying that about Staal this summer, too.

God, I hope Martin isn't seriously hurt. I missed the postgame report on him.
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Re: Official GDT Penguins v Canes 2/28/2013

Postby Metalmike on Fri Mar 01, 2013 1:27 am

Knives Of Ice wrote:
Pens on the grudge match tour.....good luck against MT in montreal saturday - you're gonna need it. Habs may be most disciplined well coached team in the league this year with awesome goaltending.


Yeah this is pathetic isnt it? Our former coach gonna beat us i'm sure. It just makes me wish that DB should not have changed the entire system FHCMT had implemented in Pittsburgh.

Metal Mike, Canada's #1 Penguins Fan.
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Re: Official GDT Penguins v Canes 2/28/2013

Postby TheHammer24 on Fri Mar 01, 2013 2:01 am

Pitt87 wrote:
Henry Hank wrote:"For whatever reason, we couldn't get to our game."

"For whatever reason, we got outworked."

"For whatever reason, we weren't executing tonight."


For whatever reason, it's really getting tiresome following this team.

I think it's karma for ripping on the Caps so much. Little did I know the Pens were on their way to becoming that team. Just sucks, man.


As of tonight:

#1 in our division. #2 in the conference. #2 in GF (to TB, who has won 9 games...). #3 in diff. Oh, and our captain is the NHL's leading scorer.... well, tied. Still

I don't think its as bad as all that.

I hate when people troll HH (and you're not, Tim), but I wonder if he's wrong here. Is it possible that a byproduct of a super talented team are moments of utter abandonment of sound, systematic hockey? Buy as long as they remain a top 2 team in the East, should we be that concerned?
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Re: Official GDT Penguins v Canes 2/28/2013

Postby wondermoose on Fri Mar 01, 2013 3:59 am

I'm starting to believe that "player's coaches" come with a shelf life, unfortunately. I really hope DB finds a way to... convince the team to bring their A-game every night, I do, but these past couple seasons have shown a very troubling trend; one game they're unstoppable, others it's like the players don't know what to do. My personal opinion goes back to what did Therrien in: the constant line shuffling that produces mass confusion on the ice. I'm sorry, but you don't get good results in the NHL these days by throwing out whatever three forwards and defensive pair onto the ice. It's a worrisome trend.
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Re: Official GDT Penguins v Canes 2/28/2013

Postby Pens4Life on Fri Mar 01, 2013 4:24 am

We need to get tougher to play against,more agressive,more physical,bigger.. At trade deadline,we need a top6 winger with grit (not a rental I hope),a energetic hitting 4th liner (not a rental I hope), veteran stay at home crease clearing D-man (can be a rental ala Regehr) 3 freakin players!
And also if we dont get at least to conference finals,Blysma should go,simple as that.. But yes,Montreal with MT will eat us..
Last edited by Pens4Life on Fri Mar 01, 2013 5:12 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Official GDT Penguins v Canes 2/28/2013

Postby Puffymuffin on Fri Mar 01, 2013 4:57 am

I think we should wait until what the playoffs brings this year. If it is another failure (2nd round or earlier exit) maybe a major overhaul is warranted for this club.
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Re: Official GDT Penguins v Canes 2/28/2013

Postby penmyst on Fri Mar 01, 2013 6:00 am

TheHammer24 wrote:I hate when people troll HH (and you're not, Tim), but I wonder if he's wrong here. Is it possible that a byproduct of a super talented team are moments of utter abandonment of sound, systematic hockey?


Let's ask the Chicago Blackhawk's victims about that...

TheHammer24 wrote:Buy as long as they remain a top 2 team in the East, should we be that concerned?


That's Washington Crapitals fan-talk there buddy. Slow your roll.

Nobody, and I mean NOBODY ought to care 2 #$@!s about the regular season short of "are you going to make the playoffs?"

Where this team is going to be judged is on what they do in the playoffs. And when you look at the past 3 years of miserable failures (each special in it's own putrid way), and see SEVERAL of the EXACT SAME circumstances cropping up that this team exhibited in the Killa-in-tha-Philla' ??? From the headless-chicken own-zone D, to the stubborn turnovers through the NZ, to piss-poor puck control in the offensive zone (some day I got to make a post about THAT one, this team has gotten really REALLY bad at holding good possession of the puck in the OZ), to the enemy players roaming free around MAF, to the incompetent PK, to the confusing trainwreck of a PP that cannot be explained at this point (it's success baffling all logic).... up to and including the top level offense powered by a prolific Crosby (which makes everybody go all Craps-fan like and say "But we are OK!").

This is some serious stuff. And none of it's *really* gonna play out til the impending playoff debacle where they get whipped by some team of jabrons like the Islanders, or end up having to face a Boston or NJ in the first round and get annihilated.
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Re: Official GDT Penguins v Canes 2/28/2013

Postby pens2005 on Fri Mar 01, 2013 8:11 am

To just throw random stuff out there.

We have the 5th most losses in the eastern conference if you look at it with 8.

So even though they sit pretty at 2nd, their loss totals are pretty high.
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Re: Official GDT Penguins v Canes 2/28/2013

Postby Beveridge on Fri Mar 01, 2013 8:30 am

wondermoose wrote:I'm starting to believe that "player's coaches" come with a shelf life, unfortunately. I really hope DB finds a way to... convince the team to bring their A-game every night, I do, but these past couple seasons have shown a very troubling trend; one game they're unstoppable, others it's like the players don't know what to do. My personal opinion goes back to what did Therrien in: the constant line shuffling that produces mass confusion on the ice. I'm sorry, but you don't get good results in the NHL these days by throwing out whatever three forwards and defensive pair onto the ice. It's a worrisome trend.



Bolded my exact thoughts on this. I couldn't stand the roller coaster MT did at the end with the lines. Bylsma came in that year, lines were rarely messed with except when double shifting crosby and malkin in the playoffs with 4th line guys. Even his first couple full seasons they were constant outside the ebb and flow of games.

I get when a PP ends you have to reshuffle a little bit but not as much as it's been going on. The line juggling has been way out of control beyond the normal end of a period or situations where you might want a little different personal on the ice.
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Re: Official GDT Penguins v Canes 2/28/2013

Postby Gaucho on Fri Mar 01, 2013 8:54 am

"The sign of a good team, or the sign of a good player, is, if you make a mistake once, you don't make the same mistake again," Orpik said.

Read more: http://www.post-gazette.com/stories/spo ... z2MIBHdejY
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Re: Official GDT Penguins v Canes 2/28/2013

Postby shafnutz05 on Fri Mar 01, 2013 8:55 am

Gaucho wrote:"The sign of a good team, or the sign of a good player, is, if you make a mistake once, you don't make the same mistake again," Orpik said.

Read more: http://www.post-gazette.com/stories/spo ... z2MIBHdejY


Fool me once, shame on me. Fool me 200 times, shame on....?
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Re: Official GDT Penguins v Canes 2/28/2013

Postby Gaucho on Fri Mar 01, 2013 9:05 am

GWB school of quotation?
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Re: Official GDT Penguins v Canes 2/28/2013

Postby Idoit40fans on Fri Mar 01, 2013 9:09 am

Pitt87 wrote:
Henry Hank wrote:"For whatever reason, we couldn't get to our game."

"For whatever reason, we got outworked."

"For whatever reason, we weren't executing tonight."


For whatever reason, it's really getting tiresome following this team.

I think it's karma for ripping on the Caps so much. Little did I know the Pens were on their way to becoming that team. Just sucks, man.


As of tonight:

#1 in our division. #2 in the conference. #2 in GF (to TB, who has won 9 games...). #3 in diff. Oh, and our captain is the NHL's leading scorer.... well, tied. Still

I don't think its as bad as all that.


This is the most hilarious argument i've ever seen for a team not being like the Capitals. I agree 100% with HH.
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Re: Official GDT Penguins v Canes 2/28/2013

Postby BurghersAndDogsSports on Fri Mar 01, 2013 9:27 am

Idoit40fans wrote:
Pitt87 wrote:
Henry Hank wrote:"For whatever reason, we couldn't get to our game."

"For whatever reason, we got outworked."

"For whatever reason, we weren't executing tonight."


For whatever reason, it's really getting tiresome following this team.

I think it's karma for ripping on the Caps so much. Little did I know the Pens were on their way to becoming that team. Just sucks, man.


As of tonight:

#1 in our division. #2 in the conference. #2 in GF (to TB, who has won 9 games...). #3 in diff. Oh, and our captain is the NHL's leading scorer.... well, tied. Still

I don't think its as bad as all that.


This is the most hilarious argument i've ever seen for a team not being like the Capitals. I agree 100% with HH.


Especially since we are only 2 in our conference because Nj has played less games and Boston/Ottawa are in different divisions.

We are 2 because of playoff seeding and more games played. so even if the argument makes sense it's wrong to begin with, but it makes no sense to me anyways. Double whammy.
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