rossi discusses trading 58

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Re: rossi discusses trading 58

Postby mikey287 on Sat Mar 02, 2013 1:38 am

wondermoose wrote:
mikey287 wrote:
pens_CT wrote:
mikey287 wrote:To answer the question in the first line, knowing what I know right this second, I don't entertain the thought of trading him.

So if Letang asks for 6 million + per season in his next contract, do you think he is worth it based on his play to date?


Oh, most certainly. I'm not sure what that + is. But if it's in that realm, I'm up for it. That said, I'm not the type to let 10 far-from-poor games over rule multiple seasons of excellent play...so if you're (not you specifically) looking for a National Enquirer headline, I'm not gonna provide it...I don't really believe in that type of management style...too EA Sports-y...


The problem is Letang isn't going to ask for $6 million; he's going to be offered $7-8 million and he ain't worth that.


Now, we do realize that at $8 million per year, that makes Letang the highest paid defensemen in the NHL (and I believe NHL history, if I'm not mistaken). I just kind of wonder where this thought comes from. $7 million puts him fourth behind Weber, Suter and Campbell. I mean, maybe...but I'm not sure he's gonna have the pull to get that...

$6 million per year puts him outside the top-10 in terms of defensemen and he's give-or-take a top-10 defensemen in the league...so...I'd be pretty happy with that, knowing what I know right this second.
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Re: rossi discusses trading 58

Postby DesertPenguin on Sat Mar 02, 2013 1:53 am

If we move Letang, which shouldn't even be considered till the offseason, the price starts at a young top flight winger. Bobby Ryan comes to mind. Even then I think Anaheim would need to add to make that deal. He is a young player prone to bonehead moves, but he is still maturing, and even now puts up a ton of points with his transition game.
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Re: rossi discusses trading 58

Postby knives of ice on Sat Mar 02, 2013 2:02 am

letang has so much natural skill and his skating ability makes up for many mistakes, but i think he is without a doubt the absolute dumbest player on the team. no poise at all especially on the power play, amongst the league leaders for defensemen in missed shots on goal and turnovers, a horrible decision maker with the puck and easily flustered.

he'll get 6-7 million per year from someone in free agency easily. trading him may not be the craziest idea ever especially with all of our best prospects being on d
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Re: rossi discusses trading 58

Postby wondermoose on Sat Mar 02, 2013 2:30 am

mikey287 wrote:
wondermoose wrote:
mikey287 wrote:
pens_CT wrote:
mikey287 wrote:To answer the question in the first line, knowing what I know right this second, I don't entertain the thought of trading him.

So if Letang asks for 6 million + per season in his next contract, do you think he is worth it based on his play to date?


Oh, most certainly. I'm not sure what that + is. But if it's in that realm, I'm up for it. That said, I'm not the type to let 10 far-from-poor games over rule multiple seasons of excellent play...so if you're (not you specifically) looking for a National Enquirer headline, I'm not gonna provide it...I don't really believe in that type of management style...too EA Sports-y...


The problem is Letang isn't going to ask for $6 million; he's going to be offered $7-8 million and he ain't worth that.


Now, we do realize that at $8 million per year, that makes Letang the highest paid defensemen in the NHL (and I believe NHL history, if I'm not mistaken). I just kind of wonder where this thought comes from. $7 million puts him fourth behind Weber, Suter and Campbell. I mean, maybe...but I'm not sure he's gonna have the pull to get that...

$6 million per year puts him outside the top-10 in terms of defensemen and he's give-or-take a top-10 defensemen in the league...so...I'd be pretty happy with that, knowing what I know right this second.


I just got a feeling, with Markov ($5.75 mil) and Kaberle ($4.25 mil) coming off the books for Letang's UFA year in 2014, they are going to do something crazy to bring back their kinsman. OK, maybe not $8, but certainly a big offer could be possible there. I guess it depends on whether or not the city revolts against Therrien by then or whether Therrien is a deal-breaker for Letang. This is all just postulation, of course.
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Re: rossi discusses trading 58

Postby Unbeliever on Sat Mar 02, 2013 3:04 am

Letang might not be a Norris contender the way he is playing right now, but he definitely have all the parts to be one of the absolute best defensemen in the league. He has amazing offensive capabilities, incredible skating and he can clearly play solid D when he chooses to. There are games where he just does everything right in the D zone. I am still convinced that there exists someone who can screw his head on straight and make him play to his full capacity every game, without making stupid plays or getting too emotional to think straight. I would hate it to see someone with those basic skills be traded to a team that can sort him out and then having to play against him.
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Re: rossi discusses trading 58

Postby Bioshock on Sat Mar 02, 2013 4:39 am

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Re: rossi discusses trading 58

Postby Bowser on Sat Mar 02, 2013 7:33 am

Kris Letang's play is not of a number one defenseman. He's handling the puck like a grenade, no composure on the power play, can never get his shot on net, and is pushed around far too often down low in the defensive zone. He's a world class skater for an NHL player, RH shot, lightning quick hands, and could be a physical defensemen if he would be more consistent in using his leverage to positionally close off a man. Letang does just enough to be considered a top 2 defenseman and due to his age/experience, his trade value has to be high enough because of the potential to turn it around and start putting up numbers like Karlsson.

Trading Letang would be a high risk move because of his skill and still untapped potential, the question for Shero has to be the long-term value in a salary cap world and other issues such as having absolutely nothing at forward in WBS. Sure Anton Zlobin might be a dark horse to turn into something but that's about it. Pens have to be able to replace Letang's minutes on the blue line somehow and in a deal, have to get a top line winger that could be here for the next five years.

Now having said all that, I'm not sure an in-season trade is going to happen based on the development time needed for Despres, Morrow, Dumoulin, and Samuelsson. I'd rather see Niskanen traded, get Despres into the second pairing, and then put Eaton-Bortuzzo as the third pairing with Engelland as the 7th defenseman. I wonder what a package of Niskanen, Kennedy, and 2013 number one pick could get for the Penguins... would that be enough to acquire Jarome Iginla?

If you trade Letang, we're talking a winger like Bobby Ryan, Evander Kane, or TJ Oshie as the return for the Penguins.
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Re: rossi discusses trading 58

Postby DelPen on Sat Mar 02, 2013 8:48 am

I wouldn't actively look to trade Letang but he is in no way untouchable at this point. Kulemin, Gunnarsson and a 1st for Letang and Kennedy? might be too much from us but I'd consider it.
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Re: rossi discusses trading 58

Postby Luckybreak on Sat Mar 02, 2013 8:53 am

smoothmoneyb wrote:If a few of our defensive prospects were just a year or two further along, I'd almost say trading Letang was a no brainer. The problem, as others have said, is that we're not going to get someone in return who can replace what Kris does this year and it will hurt our chances for right now. Even so, I'd seriously consider it for the right offer. Letang is a big name around the league, and could very well help us get the missing pieces we need (a legitimate top six winger.. basically another kunitz type, and a true top 4 physical stay at home d-man). This might actually require us giving up picks in the trade as well. Letang is one of the few players we have who's 'name' and trade value actually supercedes his talent. He's a great defenseman, excellent skater and has all of the tools but as others have stated, he's just too inconsistent sometimes. He'll do something amazing, like he did on that pass on Dupuis's goal a couple of weeks ago, then he'll completely disappear for games at a time. His name is often thrown around as being a noris candidate, but honestly, I don't see it happening. He's just never had a full season playing at an elite level without completely dropping of the map eventually. Maybe he'll put one together eventually, but who knows. I haven't been overly impressed with his play this year, and I think that 6 mil + could probably be better spent elsewhere. Right now, if Martin keeps up his play, he honestly has a better chance at winning the noris than letang, and I'm dead serious. I never would've expected the dramatic turn around we've seen from him this year. And over the next few years we'll have other prospects who can come in and at least partially replace what Kris does. Yet we won't have the other pieces that we've been lacking for some time. So to me, given the right offer, it makes sense..


Good points and I agree with the inconsistent assesment of Letang. The thing that hurts his cause the most is inability to QB the PP, Martin has been far superior distributing the puck and Nisky has shown greater ability to get shots on net. It all comes down to the return. It may take time to develop the prospects to being a factor on this team or as trade bait but I don't see the team as constructed being a legit Cup contender (a combination of personel and coaching/system need addressing). Letang is the only piece that could gain a decent return and (theoretically) be replaced internally. A stable top 3 defensive D, responsible Kunitz type winger and a reasonable forward prospect would be the minimum required return but might offset the loss of Tangers excellent skillset by contributing to the creation of a deeper, less eratic team.
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Re: rossi discusses trading 58

Postby Big Easy Pens Fan on Sat Mar 02, 2013 9:13 am

Godric wrote:Letang for Ladislav Smid+Eberle


I wouldn't be opposed to this. I'm not that knowledgable agout Smid, but Eberle has always been on my radar. :thumb: But we might have to "throw-in" another guy to make this deal. Kennedy?

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Re: rossi discusses trading 58

Postby joe icepick on Sat Mar 02, 2013 9:42 am

DelPen wrote:I wouldn't actively look to trade Letang but he is in no way untouchable at this point. Kulemin, Gunnarsson and a 1st for Letang and Kennedy? might be too much from us but I'd consider it.


I would do that right now, but If I were the gm I wouldn't trade him in are division.
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Re: rossi discusses trading 58

Postby pens2005 on Sat Mar 02, 2013 9:44 am

largegarlic wrote:Several things...

1.) Yeah, it seems clear Rossi was trolling LGP for material.



Rossi may be a total dolt, but he has better things to do than to troll a friggin message board.
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Re: rossi discusses trading 58

Postby joe icepick on Sat Mar 02, 2013 9:49 am

Why can't Shero make a couple of tweeks now and then see how it works out. Do we have to go to the trade deadline. He's got to realize he needs a dman that can clear a crease. Orpik Isn't the answer.
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Re: rossi discusses trading 58

Postby joe icepick on Sat Mar 02, 2013 10:06 am

Maybe we should get this to talk to the team.

http://youtu.be/agL3NHgb8Rk
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Re: rossi discusses trading 58

Postby mikey287 on Sat Mar 02, 2013 10:18 am

Man alive! Letang and Kennedy for Kulemin, Gunnarsson and a 1st? Are you guys sick? We're trying to win a Stanley Cup not return to the days of '04...I love Kulemin and all, but let's get serious here...

How about Orpik for Matt Walker and Tye McGinn too...because Orpik did have that one bad game this season...

Malkin was invisible against Carolina the other night, ship him out too because he's going to want to be paid kind of soon and we did draft Bluegers and Marcantuoni (because all of our prospects turn into NHL players)...Malkin for Max Pacioretty and Yannick Weber/Raphael Diaz? Maybe we can add a pick...

It's funny, people complain about the job Shero does with his first round picks ("too many d-men, there's a forward that a number told me I'm supposed to like that we could have taken!") then when one of the d-men develops into something good (not that Letang is even in this "fresh batch" we have cooking, but still), we want to trade him for another 1st round pick...

And then look at a previous post...Martin is a Norris candidate after 15 games of being good, but played average at best for 2 years...he's gold. The guy that was scratched in the playoffs last year, he's pure gold. Letang, who has been one of the NHL's best for the last two or three years, he's out. For a 2nd line winger, a third pairing d-man and a draft pick that everyone will complain about...

God damn, we need to win this game tonight...for the sake of the board...
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Re: rossi discusses trading 58

Postby murphydump55 on Sat Mar 02, 2013 10:31 am

mikey287 wrote:Man alive! Letang and Kennedy for Kulemin, Gunnarsson and a 1st? Are you guys sick? We're trying to win a Stanley Cup not return to the days of '04...I love Kulemin and all, but let's get serious here...

How about Orpik for Matt Walker and Tye McGinn too...because Orpik did have that one bad game this season...

Malkin was invisible against Carolina the other night, ship him out too because he's going to want to be paid kind of soon and we did draft Bluegers and Marcantuoni (because all of our prospects turn into NHL players)...Malkin for Max Pacioretty and Yannick Weber/Raphael Diaz? Maybe we can add a pick...

It's funny, people complain about the job Shero does with his first round picks ("too many d-men, there's a forward that a number told me I'm supposed to like that we could have taken!") then when one of the d-men develops into something good (not that Letang is even in this "fresh batch" we have cooking, but still), we want to trade him for another 1st round pick...

And then look at a previous post...Martin is a Norris candidate after 15 games of being good, but played average at best for 2 years...he's gold. The guy that was scratched in the playoffs last year, he's pure gold. Letang, who has been one of the NHL's best for the last two or three years, he's out. For a 2nd line winger, a third pairing d-man and a draft pick that everyone will complain about...

God damn, we need to win this game tonight...for the sake of the board...


Winner
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Re: rossi discusses trading 58

Postby jcgopens on Sat Mar 02, 2013 10:33 am

mikey287 wrote:Man alive! Letang and Kennedy for Kulemin, Gunnarsson and a 1st? Are you guys sick? We're trying to win a Stanley Cup not return to the days of '04...I love Kulemin and all, but let's get serious here...

How about Orpik for Matt Walker and Tye McGinn too...because Orpik did have that one bad game this season...

Malkin was invisible against Carolina the other night, ship him out too because he's going to want to be paid kind of soon and we did draft Bluegers and Marcantuoni (because all of our prospects turn into NHL players)...Malkin for Max Pacioretty and Yannick Weber/Raphael Diaz? Maybe we can add a pick...

It's funny, people complain about the job Shero does with his first round picks ("too many d-men, there's a forward that a number told me I'm supposed to like that we could have taken!") then when one of the d-men develops into something good (not that Letang is even in this "fresh batch" we have cooking, but still), we want to trade him for another 1st round pick...

And then look at a previous post...Martin is a Norris candidate after 15 games of being good, but played average at best for 2 years...he's gold. The guy that was scratched in the playoffs last year, he's pure gold. Letang, who has been one of the NHL's best for the last two or three years, he's out. For a 2nd line winger, a third pairing d-man and a draft pick that everyone will complain about...

God damn, we need to win this game tonight...for the sake of the board...


it's hard to believe there is actually a voice of reason on these boards. If you are an elite defenseman, as he has been referred to by Bylsma himself, don't make any mistakes ever. The great hockey minds on message boards will have you traded in no time.
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Re: rossi discusses trading 58

Postby JoseCuervo on Sat Mar 02, 2013 10:43 am

Mikey, you've been on this board long enough that you know this happens.
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Re: rossi discusses trading 58

Postby pens_CT on Sat Mar 02, 2013 10:48 am

There is no doubt that Letang is the Pens best defenseman. It is equally true we have nobody currently who could fill Letang's role if he was traded tomorrow. However I think its reasonable to discuss, based on what his new contract may be, and based on what he has accomplished in his NHL career to date whether it makes sense to re-sign him, or move him for assets we currently do not have in the organization.
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Re: rossi discusses trading 58

Postby Malkamaniac on Sat Mar 02, 2013 11:10 am

I think it's evidently clear, that it's going to come down to Malkin or Letang, because you can't afford both and field a competitive team. Malkin nets the bigger return, but is also considered one of the best players in the world. Letang, has his issues, but COULD BE a Norris defensemen if he gets his act together. I want to say they'd move Malkin when it comes down to it, but who knows.

Top 3 best in the world or a guy that hasn't near hit his potential. The trade is clear that you keep Malkin and move Letang.
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Re: rossi discusses trading 58

Postby jcgopens on Sat Mar 02, 2013 11:19 am

Shero must have been lying in January when he said "I wanted to be in a position to sign Malkin AND Letang"

http://triblive.com/sports/penguins/326 ... z2MG84c7OD

I also saw Shero interviewd on NBC on Jan 19 where he said that Malkin and Letang are his 2 priorities for the summer.
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Re: rossi discusses trading 58

Postby DelPen on Sat Mar 02, 2013 11:24 am

Team defense has been better when Letang as been out. When he plays stupid he his a detriment on the ice. He can't ever seem t put together a string if 5+ games where he doesn't make huge mistakes tat rookies shouldn't be making.

For the right price he shoukd be moved. He can't play PP and his PK s suspect right now.
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Re: rossi discusses trading 58

Postby shmenguin on Sat Mar 02, 2013 11:25 am

Malkamaniac wrote:I think it's evidently clear, that it's going to come down to Malkin or Letang, because you can't afford both and field a competitive team. Malkin nets the bigger return, but is also considered one of the best players in the world. Letang, has his issues, but COULD BE a Norris defensemen if he gets his act together. I want to say they'd move Malkin when it comes down to it, but who knows.

Top 3 best in the world or a guy that hasn't near hit his potential. The trade is clear that you keep Malkin and move Letang.


if we get significant progression from our young defensemen, you can keep both for a little while. ditching niskanen and giving orpik a pay cut (don't know if that's reasonable though) would make up for letang's 3 mill or so raise. one of depres/bortuzzo/morrow or whoever assumes a top 4 role (with said progression), and you fill the bottom pair with the other two depres/bortuzo/morrow or whoevers. i think it can work, but only while our young guys are still playing under their cheap contracts.
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Re: rossi discusses trading 58

Postby BurghersAndDogsSports on Sat Mar 02, 2013 11:25 am

mikey287 wrote:Man alive! Letang and Kennedy for Kulemin, Gunnarsson and a 1st? Are you guys sick? We're trying to win a Stanley Cup not return to the days of '04...I love Kulemin and all, but let's get serious here...

How about Orpik for Matt Walker and Tye McGinn too...because Orpik did have that one bad game this season...

Malkin was invisible against Carolina the other night, ship him out too because he's going to want to be paid kind of soon and we did draft Bluegers and Marcantuoni (because all of our prospects turn into NHL players)...Malkin for Max Pacioretty and Yannick Weber/Raphael Diaz? Maybe we can add a pick...

It's funny, people complain about the job Shero does with his first round picks ("too many d-men, there's a forward that a number told me I'm supposed to like that we could have taken!") then when one of the d-men develops into something good (not that Letang is even in this "fresh batch" we have cooking, but still), we want to trade him for another 1st round pick...

And then look at a previous post...Martin is a Norris candidate after 15 games of being good, but played average at best for 2 years...he's gold. The guy that was scratched in the playoffs last year, he's pure gold. Letang, who has been one of the NHL's best for the last two or three years, he's out. For a 2nd line winger, a third pairing d-man and a draft pick that everyone will complain about...

God damn, we need to win this game tonight...for the sake of the board...


Well, to be fair though, the only point to drafting the dmen was to trade some of them, or we simply have way too many if they all develop and sign Letang, have Martin under contract etc - so I am not sure about that part of your point about trading Letang. It seems to me that "fits" exactly into the plan and why it was such a smart strategy - trade when they develop and you get the most bang for your buck (albeit maybe a year early for 58).

Onto Letang specifically - we simply can not trade him this season. No way (and by no way I mean sure everyone can be had for the right price of course but nobody is giving us the farm for him) we get rid of him and have a shot at the cup. The problem with our defense is overall not one player. One stay at home d to replace Letang isnt going to make up for the fact that Engellend and Bortuzzo have been pretty below average and Despres has not been a good positional player, or solid in his own end all. I know people are questioning Despres getting scratched but away from the puck he has been pretty bad and he gets pushed around more than people want to admit.

Remember last year in the playoffs. As bad as Martin and Orpik where, HCDB and staff still were scared to play our bottom 2 d pairing. Its not going to change this year. Heck, we could get Chara for Letang and our top 4 including Matty Ice, who has slumped as of late, will carry almost all of the icetime rendering his skills somewhat ineffective.

That is why its going to be hard for Shero at the deadline as I have been saying all along. First, people keep bringing up names of core players on teams who are currently in a playoff spot which is absurd, second we have very little chips on our current roster that we can part with without and equal and a plus back and that is going to take prospects.

If a team out of contention wants to dump say a decent defenseman and is willing to do it for a prospect and TK for example. That is fine, but as bad as TK has been we have no forwards to replace him. And if you throw in Dustin Jeffrey then we really have depth for an injury in the playoffs. Its a numbers game and its going to be difficult to pull of the right deal.

But back to my point. Trading Letang this season unless the take is so overwhelming wont and shouldnt happen.
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Re: rossi discusses trading 58

Postby DontToewsMeBro on Sat Mar 02, 2013 11:35 am

pens_CT wrote:There is no doubt that Letang is the Pens best defenseman. It is equally true we have nobody currently who could fill Letang's role if he was traded tomorrow. However I think its reasonable to discuss, based on what his new contract may be, and based on what he has accomplished in his NHL career to date whether it makes sense to re-sign him, or move him for assets we currently do not have in the organization.


This, every day. You are foolish if you think Shero is not considering every available option to make this team better in the long run. Letang is an elite player. Absolutely nobody is debating that. However, his value may far surpass his realized contribution to the team. The downside of having two generational talents at forward means other parts of your team have to be sacrificed. If Letang prices himself out of Pittsburgh, and you have the foresight to realize this beforehand, wouldn't you want to minimize your potential loss from your investment? He is one of those players, I think, you can get a franchise-altering return for that changes the very composition of your team. I'm not advocating trading 58 because he sucks. I'm doing it because he's the only asset we can realistically move that can get us anything worthwhile in return.
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