Fire DB

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Re: Corey Perry

Postby Desiato on Thu Feb 21, 2013 1:51 pm

Froggy wrote:Yeah, the fact that Bowman only coached here 2 years, as well as the fact that he inherited a world championship team full of future hall of famers influences it a bit

Bowman gets a lot of credit for helping build that team too.

I regret posting previously, because I don't want to dwell on this any longer. I like Bylsma, and I've been a fan for most of the past few seasons. I hope he figures it out.
Last edited by Desiato on Thu Feb 21, 2013 1:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Corey Perry

Postby Froggy on Thu Feb 21, 2013 1:53 pm

well, the main thing that puts bylsma over bowman as far as their resume with the pens is longevity.

Bylsma:
289 games coached (2nd behind eddie johnson's 516 in 2 tenures)
176 wins (2nd behind eddie johnson's 232 in 2 tenures)
.652 winning % (1st)
1 stanley cup (T-1st)
1 Jack Adams (the only penguins coach to ever win it with the pens)

in a post lockout league with more parity than ever before.

not saying he's the best coach we've had, but that's the best resume we've seen.
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Re: Corey Perry

Postby Desiato on Thu Feb 21, 2013 2:15 pm

Eddie Johnston. He's an example of a bad coach with a good record leading a superstar Pens roster that he seemingly had little or no control over.
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Re: Corey Perry

Postby Froggy on Thu Feb 21, 2013 2:18 pm

Desiato wrote:Eddie Johnston. He's an example of a bad coach with a good record leading a superstar Pens roster that he seemingly had little or no control over.

Yeah, he also has like 7 seasons as a pens coach. his season by season records were largely mediocre.
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Re: Corey Perry

Postby Desiato on Thu Feb 21, 2013 3:13 pm

Froggy wrote:
Desiato wrote:Eddie Johnston. He's an example of a bad coach with a good record leading a superstar Pens roster that he seemingly had little or no control over.

Yeah, he also has like 7 seasons as a pens coach. his season by season records were largely mediocre.


He had two stints with the Pens. During the second, his regular season record was quite good.

Code: Select all
Season   GP  W   L  T  P    W%     Div
1993-94  84  44  27 13 101  60.10% 1st
1994-95  48  29  16  3  61  63.50% 2nd
1995-96  82  49  29  4 102  62.20% 1st
1996-97  62  31  26  5  67  54.00% 2nd
Total   276 153  98 25 331  59.96%


Pretty good record for a coach that was completely out of touch. Give that team shootouts and OTLs, and they'd probably have a similar record as DB's Pens. Those Pens won on talent and lost on coaching. Unfortunately, that's how I see the current Pens.

Edit: for those who don't recall or weren't around, Mario had 22 GP in 93-94 and 0 GP in 94-95. In 96-97, Jagr's groin problems began (19 games missed, reduced effectiveness 2nd half of season) and Mario, despite playing most of the season, had a bad back.

The more I think about it, the more parallels I see between those Pens and the current Pens. Both played in post-cup seasons. EJ also preached an up-tempo style, a simple N-S game for the non-stars, with no control over Mario or Jagr. The Pens dominated most teams in the regular season, but lost the important games and played poorly against well-coached teams. And despite Finals predictions by analysts each year, they generally disappointed in the playoffs because of poor coaching. They also lacked discipline and could be agitated into taking bad penalties. Both teams tried to play with an aggressive forecheck, but were owned in the neutral zone by well-coached teams and had frequent breakdowns defensively.

Another edit: Makes me wonder: is DB coaching Mario's system? Because we all know that EJ was a shill.
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Re: Fire DB

Postby Godric on Sat Mar 02, 2013 9:53 pm

:pop:
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Re: Fire DB

Postby bhaw on Sat Mar 02, 2013 10:05 pm

This is a joke. We have a very good team on paper, and his "system" is an absolute atrocity on defense. Yeah, they win in the regular season b/c the offense scores a ton. This defensive pile of **** has been going on for years. For those who want to continue to defend DB, please explain why our defensemen, who have all proven to be good individually, look like clueless pee wee players out there? I'll give you a hint, it's not because Orpik suddenly sucks at D or because Letang sucks at D or because Martin sucked at D last year. It's the **** coach. And shame on Shero for turning the winning formula for a team into the crap it is today with guys who can't out-compete the opponents due to size and grit all because they don't fit into Disco Dan's system.

The coach is responsible for the defensive system and it has been beyond piss poor for 3 years now. Wake up and get rid of this clown and find someone who is willing to develop the young guys we have and implement a system that actually incorporates defensive accountability instead of "score 8 goals and we'll win!"
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Re: Fire DB

Postby Beveridge on Sat Mar 02, 2013 10:08 pm

There defense was fine in 2011 after crosby and then malkin went down. Heck it was fine for most of last year until Crosby came back in the middle of March.

I'm not saying it's fine now, but they have shown it as recent as February/early March last year.
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Re: Fire DB

Postby MRandall25 on Sat Mar 02, 2013 10:10 pm

They've even shown fine defensive play throughout this year, save a few games.
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Re: Fire DB

Postby bhaw on Sat Mar 02, 2013 10:17 pm

MRandall25 wrote:They've even shown fine defensive play throughout this year, save a few games.


:lol:

That's to both of you. Yeah, it's been dandy.

Sure, it's some anomaly that every team familiar with us puts up 3+ goals on us guys. Brilliant.
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Re: Fire DB

Postby Sam's Drunk Dog on Sat Mar 02, 2013 11:16 pm

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Re: Fire DB

Postby MRandall25 on Sat Mar 02, 2013 11:40 pm

bhaw wrote:
MRandall25 wrote:They've even shown fine defensive play throughout this year, save a few games.


:lol:

That's to both of you. Yeah, it's been dandy.

Sure, it's some anomaly that every team familiar with us puts up 3+ goals on us guys. Brilliant.


I'm not saying it's an anomaly, I'm saying you're conveniently ignoring games where they have played well.
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Re: Fire DB

Postby bhaw on Sat Mar 02, 2013 11:45 pm

MRandall25 wrote:
bhaw wrote:
MRandall25 wrote:They've even shown fine defensive play throughout this year, save a few games.


:lol:

That's to both of you. Yeah, it's been dandy.

Sure, it's some anomaly that every team familiar with us puts up 3+ goals on us guys. Brilliant.


I'm not saying it's an anomaly, I'm saying you're conveniently ignoring games where they have played well.


No I'm not. I'm saying the games where they play like their heads are up each other's asses are way too prevalent if this is supposed to be a good team. Good teams have bad games, but they don't have them this often and they don't look SO bad so often.
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Re: Fire DB

Postby farnham16 on Sat Mar 02, 2013 11:46 pm

MRandall25 wrote:
bhaw wrote:
MRandall25 wrote:They've even shown fine defensive play throughout this year, save a few games.


:lol:

That's to both of you. Yeah, it's been dandy.

Sure, it's some anomaly that every team familiar with us puts up 3+ goals on us guys. Brilliant.


I'm not saying it's an anomaly, I'm saying you're conveniently ignoring games where they have played well.


They have had many more poor nights on defense than they have good nights on defense this season.

They just gave up 16 goals in 3 games against offensive giants Florida, Carolina, and Montreal.

I don't think Bylsma's system is good for this team and I don't think he's a great coach, but its hard to fire a coach mid season during a shortened season. He should have been fired after the loss to Philly last year.
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Re: Fire DB

Postby Rocco on Sat Mar 02, 2013 11:47 pm

How many times can the subject change before the thread gets locked?
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Re: Fire DB

Postby Henry Hank on Sat Mar 02, 2013 11:48 pm

Of course they've played well some games. They were actually doing a fairly solid job of playing with the kind of balance they need, up until the Philly game. Since then, they're 100% back where they were last spring.

You're kind of just using the "it's just one game!" excuse the opposite way. They need to do more than occasionally play sound hockey. All I know is, you look at the season as a whole - 2.91 goals against per game. Tied for 19th in the league. Simply. Not. Good. Enough. Washington Capitsl hockey. First round upset in the making.
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Re: Fire DB

Postby farnham16 on Sat Mar 02, 2013 11:55 pm

16 goals the last three games against Florida, Carolina, and Montreal. I just threw up. That is really, really bad.

Adjustments have to be made. Have to.
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Re: Fire DB

Postby penmyst on Sun Mar 03, 2013 6:39 am

Beveridge wrote:There defense was fine in 2011 after crosby and then malkin went down. Heck it was fine for most of last year until Crosby came back in the middle of March.

I'm not saying it's fine now, but they have shown it as recent as February/early March last year.


The hallmark of not-so-good players and not-so-good teams across ALL sports is: inconsistency.

The Pittsburgh Pirates can have great games. Doesn't mean anybody is going to mistake them for a winning team.

The last couple of years, this Pens team has sunk into the "not-so-good" territory of uneven efforts, uneven play, uneven discipline, uneven goal scoring, uneven defense, etc. It's gotten so bad, you can't even be sure what the nachos will be like.
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Re: Fire DB

Postby penmyst on Sun Mar 03, 2013 6:41 am

Beveridge wrote:There defense was fine in 2011 after crosby and then malkin went down. Heck it was fine for most of last year until Crosby came back in the middle of March.

I'm not saying it's fine now, but they have shown it as recent as February/early March last year.


The hallmark of not-so-good players and not-so-good teams across ALL sports is: inconsistency.

The Pittsburgh Pirates can have great games. Doesn't mean anybody is going to mistake them for a winning team. Not-so-good baseball teams can't string together games where they play good D, good O, and good pitching. It's always one or more failing them, each and every night. Inconsistency.

Not-so-good hockey teams can't string together games where they play good D, good O, and good goaltending. It's always one or more failing them, each and every night. Inconsistency.

The last couple of years, this Pens team has sunk into the "not-so-good" territory of uneven efforts, uneven play, uneven discipline, uneven goal scoring, uneven defense, etc. It's gotten so bad, you can't even be sure what the nachos will be like.
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Re: Fire DB

Postby Wyopen on Sun Mar 03, 2013 7:18 am

bhaw wrote:This is a joke. We have a very good team on paper, and his "system" is an absolute atrocity on defense. Yeah, they win in the regular season b/c the offense scores a ton. This defensive pile of **** has been going on for years. For those who want to continue to defend DB, please explain why our defensemen, who have all proven to be good individually, look like clueless pee wee players out there? I'll give you a hint, it's not because Orpik suddenly sucks at D or because Letang sucks at D or because Martin sucked at D last year. It's the **** coach. And shame on Shero for turning the winning formula for a team into the crap it is today with guys who can't out-compete the opponents due to size and grit all because they don't fit into Disco Dan's system.

The coach is responsible for the defensive system and it has been beyond piss poor for 3 years now. Wake up and get rid of this clown and find someone who is willing to develop the young guys we have and implement a system that actually incorporates defensive accountability instead of "score 8 goals and we'll win!"


Touché, thank you for telling it like is, and not being an enabler!
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Re: Fire DB

Postby 71Aj66ax87 on Sun Mar 03, 2013 2:07 pm

Godric wrote::pop:


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Re: Fire DB

Postby RxBandit66 on Mon Mar 04, 2013 1:07 pm

bhaw wrote:This is a joke. We have a very good team on paper, and his "system" is an absolute atrocity on defense. Yeah, they win in the regular season b/c the offense scores a ton. This defensive pile of **** has been going on for years. For those who want to continue to defend DB, please explain why our defensemen, who have all proven to be good individually, look like clueless pee wee players out there? I'll give you a hint, it's not because Orpik suddenly sucks at D or because Letang sucks at D or because Martin sucked at D last year. It's the **** coach. And shame on Shero for turning the winning formula for a team into the crap it is today with guys who can't out-compete the opponents due to size and grit all because they don't fit into Disco Dan's system.

The coach is responsible for the defensive system and it has been beyond piss poor for 3 years now. Wake up and get rid of this clown and find someone who is willing to develop the young guys we have and implement a system that actually incorporates defensive accountability instead of "score 8 goals and we'll win!"


I agree with this, always have. The system is awful and I'm shocked that RS has put all of his faith in it. The organization has even given DB players that management felt were catered specifically to fit his system. Rarely have I seen a coach be catered to like this, especially one with so little experience coming in.

Shero's job is also on the line, I think, if the team goes out early again. He's basically placed his marbles in Bylsma's basket. What choice will management have? I think the only reason DB wasn't fired after the Philly debacle (it wasn't just the goals against, but the team's humiliating behavior on the ice, which ironically confirmed all of the "whiner" talk that was put forth by opposing coaches) was that they were too invested in the system. They are hoping, perhaps against hope, that they can pull it together, or "get to their game" or whatever phrase that dimwit uses. If they go out early again they'll almost have to blow it up, which would be a shame.
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Re: Fire DB

Postby Jamie on Mon Mar 04, 2013 1:20 pm

The defensive system was based around puck possession. You know, have it more than the other team and play in their end scenario. Getting to "our game". The problem is we seem to spend more time in our end beacuase we can't clear and let teams establish play in our D-zone. I do not think we have the personnel to rule the puck possession game as is. Seems like we are getting to "our game", less and less.
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Re: Fire DB

Postby joe icepick on Mon Mar 04, 2013 2:05 pm

DB needs to get the flock out of town.
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Re: Fire DB

Postby joe icepick on Mon Mar 04, 2013 2:07 pm

So nothing will change until 2:55 on April 3.
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