Simon Despres is a pretty good hockey player

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Re: Simon Despres is a pretty good hockey player

Postby GeoTank on Sat Mar 02, 2013 10:23 pm

Kunitz - Crosby - Dupuis
Bennett - Malkin - Neal
Cooke - Sutter - Boychuk
Glass - Adams - Vitale

Letang - Despres
Orpik - Martin
Niskanen - Bortouzzo

Fleury
Vokoun
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Re: Simon Despres is a pretty good hockey player

Postby mikey287 on Sat Mar 02, 2013 10:24 pm

Still clearly adjusting to the speed of the game, as he makes some questionable decisions sometimes as most rookies will...work in progress in all 3 zones, but he continues to show a lot of potential...it's a big frame, with great skating and good technical skills...it's a good base for quality prospect, when his head catches up with the rest of him, he'll be a fixture here I hope...

That is...unless he has 3 bad shifts in a row, then this thread becomes "Despres is pretty good trade bait"
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Re: Simon Despres is a pretty good hockey player

Postby Henry Hank on Sat Mar 02, 2013 10:34 pm

I'll totally defend Bylsma on the way he's used Despres. People have gone way overboard on him being scratched for a few games. He's played almost every game. They've had a healthy D corps and another rookie they want to get into action. They see some value in playing Engelland. Someone has to sit. I don't think it's terrible for a rookie to occasionally watch from the press box. When he plays, he's getting protected third pairing minutes like he should be.

I think the real solution on D will be moving Niskanen and replacing him with a guy who's strong defensively and good on the PK, a physical guy even. If such a player is out there. Niskanen is the guy that is redundant with Letang, Despres, and Martin already there. They need someone more dependable defensively.
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Re: Simon Despres is a pretty good hockey player

Postby Dickie Dunn on Sat Mar 02, 2013 10:39 pm

"Protected minutes", "developed the proper way", blah blah blah. Its all just mumbo jumbo for people trying to ignore facts. Ignoring that being "developed the proper way" has gone right out the window in recent seasons, that it can easily be argued that Despres is better than Niskanen (which puts him in the teams top four), and that regardless of where you put him in the lineup rookie mistakes will happen, these are facts:

- Letang has played his best hockey this season when paired with Despres. The Nisky-Letang pairing the past couple games was a mess. They just didn't play well together.

- Despres has played his best hockey this season when paired with Letang. Despres' worst two games (which caused him to become a healthy scratch) were when he was paired with the pile of suck that is Derek Engelland.

- Because Letang and Despres have played better with each other than anyone else, they should probably play together, since playing together is important.

Its not rocket science. Put the players in the best position to succeed and the team will succeed. A Letang-Despres pairing contributes to the team succeeding more than either of them being paired with someone else.
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Re: Simon Despres is a pretty good hockey player

Postby Godric on Sat Mar 02, 2013 10:47 pm

Dickie Dunn wrote:"Protected minutes", "developed the proper way", blah blah blah. Its all just mumbo jumbo for people trying to ignore facts. Ignoring that being "developed the proper way" has gone right out the window in recent seasons, that it can easily be argued that Despres is better than Niskanen (which puts him in the teams top four), and that regardless of where you put him in the lineup rookie mistakes will happen, these are facts:

- Letang has played his best hockey this season when paired with Despres. The Nisky-Letang pairing the past couple games was a mess. They just didn't play well together.

- Despres has played his best hockey this season when paired with Letang. Despres' worst two games (which caused him to become a healthy scratch) were when he was paired with the pile of suck that is Derek Engelland.

- Because Letang and Despres have played better with each other than anyone else, they should probably play together, since playing together is important.

Its not rocket science. Put the players in the best position to succeed and the team will succeed. A Letang-Despres pairing contributes to the team succeeding more than either of them being paired with someone else.



A MILLION TIMES THIS.

great job
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Re: Simon Despres is a pretty good hockey player

Postby pronovost19 on Sat Mar 02, 2013 11:00 pm

Well said Godric
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Re: Simon Despres is a pretty good hockey player

Postby mikey287 on Sat Mar 02, 2013 11:15 pm

With what I said, Despres and Letang have each looked their best when paired with each other...so, why not...what are we gonna do, give up more goals?

Even though it's not really my thing, sometimes you just have to have an "ah **** it..." attitude...that's how the team plays anyhow...go for it.

Despres-Letang
Orpik-Martin
Niskanen-Bortuzzo
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Re: Simon Despres is a pretty good hockey player

Postby ILikeTurtles on Sun Mar 03, 2013 3:22 am

slappybrown wrote:
Godric wrote:
slappybrown wrote:A letang Despres pairing would be likely be a dumpster fire in the playoffs IMO


I completely disagree, they are both really fast and great transitionally.

Agreed re skating and transition play.


BUT

The problem is letang chases things in his own end all the time and is out of position a lot (one of the goals tonite being a prime example where's he's chasing MTL player behind out own net) and relying on Despres who's also offensively inclined to cover that is a big ask. You take the bad letang because the good is exceptional, but in the playoffs that's a pairing that is primed for self immolation

This type of pair, I believe, would be good. Letang, when younger, was more likely to jump up in the play, and being paired with Despres, who is a similar player is style, would have him focus and hone his defensive game more. I really liked what I saw from Despres in the limited viewings of him I had in the minors, and he will be a stud in the NHL for many years to come. He will be a part of the core going forward, a big mobile puck moving defense man with vision is at a premium in the NHL and I believe he can only continue to show promise with more ice time.
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Re: Simon Despres is a pretty good hockey player

Postby ILikeTurtles on Sun Mar 03, 2013 3:26 am

I can't remember the game, but I remember Despres and Letang zipping pucks back and forth on the blue line with no effort. They look to have the type of chemistry that you can not manufacture, ala Geno and Neal. In my eyes, if it works, it works you do not question the progress. Despres should be in the line-up night in and night out.
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Re: Simon Despres is a pretty good hockey player

Postby guiner on Sun Mar 03, 2013 4:25 am

Despres has played well enough and has the pedigree to play first PP minutes. Don't understand why he hasn't been given more shift there given the injuries. Although hard to complain about him being second to Martin. PM was definetly getting things done.
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Re: Simon Despres is a pretty good hockey player

Postby Trip McNeely on Sun Mar 03, 2013 8:06 am

mikey287 wrote:With what I said, Despres and Letang have each looked their best when paired with each other...so, why not...what are we gonna do, give up more goals?

Even though it's not really my thing, sometimes you just have to have an "ah **** it..." attitude...that's how the team plays anyhow...go for it.

Despres-Letang
Orpik-Martin
Niskanen-Bortuzzo


:thumb:

I'm still sort of astounded that Engelland has not been a scratch at all this year. During the playoffs last year, he was stapled to the bench because DB didn't trust him out there. And looking at his ice time, much hasn't changed this year either. Here are his TOI the past 5 games: 11:20, 13:05, 12:16, 12:40, 13:47. Mark Eaton, in his first game back from basically off the street, played 19 minutes yesterday. And Despres played almost 16 minutes despite being a scratch the past 2 games.

Right now our defense basically can't defend any worse. I watch Despres and he does make some very curious decisions. But as a rookie, he is going to make some bad decisions. Why not let him learn from it now and get him the playing time he needs? Its pretty clear he has the ability to be a top-2 guy, and to be honest, I think his ceiling offensively is higher than Letang's.

Let him play now, make mistakes now, and grow...now. It will be worth it come playoff time. We already know what we have with Engelland.
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Re: Simon Despres is a pretty good hockey player

Postby brwi on Sun Mar 03, 2013 8:26 am

Henry Hank wrote:Despres is a talent. There's not any doubt about it. But he's 21 and mistake prone. He played 15 some minutes tonight. Giving him big minutes now is not going to help this team do anything but maybe score some more goals, but it's going to feed into their defensive failings.

What they really need is a veteran "leader" like Orpik doing his job on the ice instead of just talking about it to the media. And rather than push Despres over his head, it'd be nice if they could bring in a good defensive defenseman to keep him where he belongs in a protected third pairing role.


I'd definitely agree with that. The main issue to me is that Despres needs to be out there every game, even in the 3rd pairing which as we all know, DB will minimize in the 3rd period as do other HC's, but at least get him out there regularly for 2 periods+ and not sit him in the press box.

Pens have a 1st rounder invested in the guy and he obviously has some size and talent. Dressing an Eaton, Engelland or even Niskanen who runs hot-to-awful isn't going to help his development any and it's not going to help the team win either in the long-run.

Pens need a stay-at-home dman to be acquired and paired with Despres and I am not thinking Eaton either. UGH.
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Re: Simon Despres is a pretty good hockey player

Postby Senka on Sun Mar 03, 2013 3:11 pm

Bortuzzo and Despres are cycling in and out. there just isnt enough space. Im the biggest Despres supporter. I loved the guy enough to spend $200 on a jersey before he was up here. But i watch him every game. He has huge upside and can log minutes, but even I dont think he should be more than a 3rd pair DMan yet. He looks slow when going from 0. His acceleration is not what it needs to be. He's still adjusting. He'll be great in the next few years, and I dont doubt that. Bortuzzo adds grit on the back end (which I think Engo is doing a fine job of already) but if another one needs added, so be it. I think they should both play every day but the bottom line is 6-spots. You need the other 5 in there everyday. Engo would be the first I scratch over Nisk
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Re: Simon Despres is a pretty good hockey player

Postby guiner on Sun Mar 03, 2013 5:20 pm

GeoTank wrote:Kunitz - Crosby - Dupuis
Bennett - Malkin - Neal
Cooke - Sutter - Boychuk
Glass - Adams - Vitale

Letang - Despres
Orpik - Martin
Niskanen - Bortouzzo

Fleury
Vokoun


Hey bro,

I'd like them to try this.
Bennett - Crosby - Dupuis
Kunitz - Malkin - Neal
Cooke - Sutter - Boychuk
Glass - Adams - Vitale

Letang - Despres
Orpik - Martin
Niskanen - Bortouzzo

Fleury
Vokoun

Kunitz has also played huge with Malkin - Neal and Malkin could use some help. Bennett is a smart hockey player, he knows at what pace to go to match the play, good breakout and neutral zone delays/passes. And he always finds a soft spot in the offensive zone and is facing the play. Still seems a little tentative on execution. I think he'd get off lots of quality shots with Crosby. He just doesn't fit very well on 3rd line even though he can play a physical/board game, which is also a requisite with playing with Crosby.

I'm not sure Boychuk fits on 3rd. Even though I'm still a Kennedy supporter, he has been real erratic. Does hustle, but sometimes totally braindead. I liked what Boychuk did, can't be worse.
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Re: Simon Despres is a pretty good hockey player

Postby The Snapshot on Sun Mar 03, 2013 6:13 pm

brwi wrote:
Henry Hank wrote:Despres is a talent. There's not any doubt about it. But he's 21 and mistake prone. He played 15 some minutes tonight. Giving him big minutes now is not going to help this team do anything but maybe score some more goals, but it's going to feed into their defensive failings.

What they really need is a veteran "leader" like Orpik doing his job on the ice instead of just talking about it to the media. And rather than push Despres over his head, it'd be nice if they could bring in a good defensive defenseman to keep him where he belongs in a protected third pairing role.


I'd definitely agree with that. The main issue to me is that Despres needs to be out there every game, even in the 3rd pairing which as we all know, DB will minimize in the 3rd period as do other HC's, but at least get him out there regularly for 2 periods+ and not sit him in the press box.

Pens have a 1st rounder invested in the guy and he obviously has some size and talent. Dressing an Eaton, Engelland or even Niskanen who runs hot-to-awful isn't going to help his development any and it's not going to help the team win either in the long-run.

Pens need a stay-at-home dman to be acquired and paired with Despres and I am not thinking Eaton either. UGH.


Despres' best games in the NHL have been when he has received more responsibility. He is a horse, and he needs to play and be counted on. He doesn't play well in the 10 minutes per game bottom pair role. He may make a mistake, but he has shown a short memory.

Letang has made more mistakes than anyone on our D. Can we make him 3rd pair please?
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Re: Simon Despres is a pretty good hockey player

Postby no name on Sun Mar 03, 2013 6:17 pm

Godric wrote:
Dickie Dunn wrote:"Protected minutes", "developed the proper way", blah blah blah. Its all just mumbo jumbo for people trying to ignore facts. Ignoring that being "developed the proper way" has gone right out the window in recent seasons, that it can easily be argued that Despres is better than Niskanen (which puts him in the teams top four), and that regardless of where you put him in the lineup rookie mistakes will happen, these are facts:

- Letang has played his best hockey this season when paired with Despres. The Nisky-Letang pairing the past couple games was a mess. They just didn't play well together.

- Despres has played his best hockey this season when paired with Letang. Despres' worst two games (which caused him to become a healthy scratch) were when he was paired with the pile of suck that is Derek Engelland.

- Because Letang and Despres have played better with each other than anyone else, they should probably play together, since playing together is important.

Its not rocket science. Put the players in the best position to succeed and the team will succeed. A Letang-Despres pairing contributes to the team succeeding more than either of them being paired with someone else.



A MILLION TIMES THIS.

great job


Despres had a great helper on the Sutter OT winner. What a no look pass.
Good writing Dickie Dunn i also agree with it.
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Re: Simon Despres is a pretty good hockey player

Postby scals37 on Sun Mar 03, 2013 6:23 pm

guiner wrote:
GeoTank wrote:Kunitz - Crosby - Dupuis
Bennett - Malkin - Neal
Cooke - Sutter - Boychuk
Glass - Adams - Vitale

Letang - Despres
Orpik - Martin
Niskanen - Bortouzzo

Fleury
Vokoun


Hey bro,

I'd like them to try this.
Bennett - Crosby - Dupuis
Kunitz - Malkin - Neal
Cooke - Sutter - Boychuk
Glass - Adams - Vitale

Letang - Despres
Orpik - Martin
Niskanen - Bortouzzo

Fleury
Vokoun

Kunitz has also played huge with Malkin - Neal and Malkin could use some help. Bennett is a smart hockey player, he knows at what pace to go to match the play, good breakout and neutral zone delays/passes. And he always finds a soft spot in the offensive zone and is facing the play. Still seems a little tentative on execution. I think he'd get off lots of quality shots with Crosby. He just doesn't fit very well on 3rd line even though he can play a physical/board game, which is also a requisite with playing with Crosby.

I'm not sure Boychuk fits on 3rd. Even though I'm still a Kennedy supporter, he has been real erratic. Does hustle, but sometimes totally braindead. I liked what Boychuk did, can't be worse.

I like this, Sid has mentioned that he really likes playing with righties
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Re: Simon Despres is a pretty good hockey player

Postby Pitt87 on Sun Mar 03, 2013 8:20 pm

mikey287 wrote:With what I said, Despres and Letang have each looked their best when paired with each other...so, why not...what are we gonna do, give up more goals?

Even though it's not really my thing, sometimes you just have to have an "ah **** it..." attitude...that's how the team plays anyhow...go for it.

Despres-Letang
Orpik-Martin
Niskanen-Bortuzzo


Not a fan of the 44 7 pair. This has been the pair that chases the puck around their zone and have a hard time clearing.

If we ended up grabbing a big, physical, aggressive defender... this is what I think happens:

Despres-Letang
BigToughGuy-Martin
Niskanen-Orpik

Hope we get someone, and I really hope its not a bottom pair kinda guy.
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Re: Simon Despres is a pretty good hockey player

Postby DelPen on Mon Mar 04, 2013 8:01 am

Dumoulin looks to be almost the perfect future partner for Martin if Martin is around long enough.

But Letang almost needs Despres, one thing I noticed about Despres is he always goes to the puck carrier first when it comes into the zone. Letang is then forced to actually play positional defense which is when he plays his best hockey. Covering for Despres when he roams for a hit or turnover gets letang focused on simply playing hockey and it prevents Letang from being a target in the corners because he's the first guy to get the puck. Despres forces bad dumps and clogs up the blue line eliminating that.

Despres should never be a healthy scratch ever again. He has never been close to the worst defenseman on the team and often is in top 3 performances. Just let him play his game.
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Re: Simon Despres is a pretty good hockey player

Postby pcm on Mon Mar 04, 2013 9:12 am

Scratching Despres has been good for him to reflect on his game and focus on things that need improvement. I think "should never be a scratched again" is going too far. I've got nothing against Blysma scratching young players, as it does teach accountability. I just wish he would do the same thing for the older guys.

Good article by Bombulie on Morrow: http://triblive.com/sports/nhl/3550683- ... hlpenguins

It's crazy that he could potentially be BETTER than Despres. Learning how important confidence is to success is a huge lesson, and one that is kind of amazing Joe's already figured out so succinctly.

Morrow should be on the big club next season, which means that (1) Despres can't be playing like a rookie by then, (2) there needs to be a spot on the roster for him. I guess this means Niskanen is a goner, though until he shows what he can do in the playoffs, I think his value to us (this season) is greater than his value in a trade.
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Re: Simon Despres is a pretty good hockey player

Postby slappybrown on Mon Mar 04, 2013 9:18 am

pcm wrote:Scratching Despres has been good for him to reflect on his game and focus on things that need improvement. I think "should never be a scratched again" is going too far. I've got nothing against Blysma scratching young players, as it does teach accountability. I just wish he would do the same thing for the older guys.

Good article by Bombulie on Morrow: http://triblive.com/sports/nhl/3550683- ... hlpenguins

It's crazy that he could potentially be BETTER than Despres. Learning how important confidence is to success is a huge lesson, and one that is kind of amazing Joe's already figured out so succinctly.

Morrow should be on the big club next season, which means that (1) Despres can't be playing like a rookie by then, (2) there needs to be a spot on the roster for him. I guess this means Niskanen is a goner, though until he shows what he can do in the playoffs, I think his value to us (this season) is greater than his value in a trade.

I think Engelland is the odd man out next year. Bortuzzo/Morrow would be your 6/7 assuming Morrow would be here. I thought he was looking at the year after next to be honest when they have Letang/Orpik/Nisky as UFAs, but I don't follow WBS as closely as others.
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Re: Simon Despres is a pretty good hockey player

Postby DelPen on Mon Mar 04, 2013 1:20 pm

Fantastic to hear that Despres is the favorite to be a scratch tonight. I mean, really, why dress a player who was a +2 and on the ice for zero goals against and had the primary assist on the game winner in OT.

I mean, that's just crazy to think he should be playing, right?
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Re: Simon Despres is a pretty good hockey player

Postby penny lane on Mon Mar 04, 2013 1:56 pm

Dear Disco, you think Bortuzzo can hadle stamkos and st louie better? I think despres deserves another game. Hey, I'm hoping Brooks and Kristopher Letang can handle them. 8-) :wink:
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Re: Simon Despres is a pretty good hockey player

Postby shmenguin on Mon Mar 04, 2013 2:59 pm

the only thing i can think of is this...

the team is committed to depres and to a lesser extent some of the players below him like morrow and pouliot. they are NOT necessarily committed to bortuzzo. so before next year (also a contract year), they need to decide if there's a place on this team for him. we're in the "data collection" phase of that process.

though this theory kind of falls apart when mark freaking eaton starts bumping them off the depth chart.
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Re: Simon Despres is a pretty good hockey player

Postby Dickie Dunn on Mon Mar 04, 2013 3:07 pm

shmenguin wrote:the only thing i can think of is this...

the team is committed to depres and to a lesser extent some of the players below him like morrow and pouliot. they are NOT necessarily committed to bortuzzo. so before next year (also a contract year), they need to decide if there's a place on this team for him. we're in the "data collection" phase of that process.

though this theory kind of falls apart when mark freaking eaton starts bumping them off the depth chart.


Data collection phase? Maybe they should try to be at "play our six best defensemen so we have a chance to win games" phase.

If any defensemen should be getting rotated in and out of the lineup its Engelland and Bortuzzo.
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