This isn’t Nashville, Time to change tune in Pittsburgh

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Re: This isn’t Nashville, Time to change tune in Pittsburgh

Postby Lt. Dish on Sun Mar 03, 2013 1:21 am

She'sTheFastest wrote:Not to mention Tampa didn't show up for the first half of the series thinking the Pens would not be very good.


I see what you did there... 8-)
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Re: This isn’t Nashville, Time to change tune in Pittsburgh

Postby Bowser on Sun Mar 03, 2013 1:33 am

Pavel - Ah, my intent wasn't to compare the Pens and Predators regarding their coaches... it was about expectations for the franchises and I thought a nice clever use about Nashville's music scene with 'tune'.
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Re: This isn’t Nashville, Time to change tune in Pittsburgh

Postby Fire0nice228 on Sun Mar 03, 2013 8:31 am

1) Not going to fire him in a shortened season

2) Don't we already have this thread eloquently summed up by Gaucho?
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=60481
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Re: This isn’t Nashville, Time to change tune in Pittsburgh

Postby guiner on Sun Mar 03, 2013 8:57 am

I do think tonights decision to not play MAF was stupid. You can never tell what will change when someone as significant as goalies are different, but I think the Pens win easily tonight if MAF was in net. Vokoun was pretty bad.
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Re: This isn’t Nashville, Time to change tune in Pittsburgh

Postby Pavel Bure on Sun Mar 03, 2013 9:05 am

Bowser wrote:Pavel - Ah, my intent wasn't to compare the Pens and Predators regarding their coaches... it was about expectations for the franchises and I thought a nice clever use about Nashville's music scene with 'tune'.

I mean it's well written but the comparison just doesn't work. Especially since this team has already been to 2 finals and won a cup with Shero at the helm. The parallel you're trying to make just isn't there.
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Re: This isn’t Nashville, Time to change tune in Pittsburgh

Postby Defence21 on Sun Mar 03, 2013 10:05 am

Bowser wrote:Pavel - 3 to 1 series lead and lost, that's a failure. I guess with Staal gone, Bylsma has another built in excuse.

No, because they traded him and replaced his position with a player with reasonable expectations to do so. When you lose Crosby and Malkin and expect to win with Mark Letestu as your second line center, you're being unrealistic.

With a healthy roster, this team should make a deep playoff run. Anything else is a disappointment, which is why last season hurt so bad. But the two years previous are pretty darn difficult to call anything other than bad luck.

Also, don't underestimate the fact that there always are two teams on the ice and that they want to win as well. It's not always peaches and cream, but calling the last three years a failure because of early playoff exits without considering the facts (major injuries) is unfair.
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Re: This isn’t Nashville, Time to change tune in Pittsburgh

Postby Fire0nice228 on Sun Mar 03, 2013 10:26 am

I dunno..when your up 3 games 1 in the playoffs with 2 chances to clinch on home ice..you should probably do it.
Last edited by Fire0nice228 on Sun Mar 03, 2013 10:35 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: This isn’t Nashville, Time to change tune in Pittsburgh

Postby Bowser on Sun Mar 03, 2013 10:31 am

* Shero won't fire Bylsma during the season, which leaves changing the roster with those key veterans that Bylsma loves and needs.

* Pens were good enough to get a 3-1 series lead, so they weren't good enough to win 1 more game? When you lose to Montreal, ok you can understand after two long playoffs but you follow it up with a terrible choke job against Tampa Bay in the first round and then THAT from last year against Philadelphia. When momentum isn't on the side of the Penguins, those three losses don't exactly show Bylsma as being capable of adjusting. The team came from behind against Detroit to win the Cup, since then, they've been a disappointment and in my opinion,a failure. If they don't go far this year, it is time to make a change behind the bench.
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Re: This isn’t Nashville, Time to change tune in Pittsburgh

Postby count2infinity on Sun Mar 03, 2013 10:39 am

I think everyone can see the team does have some issues, but they're currently atop the atlantic division and the second seed in the conference the day after beating the #1 seed in the conference. what exactly is a coaching change going to do?
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Re: This isn’t Nashville, Time to change tune in Pittsburgh

Postby Kovy27 on Sun Mar 03, 2013 10:39 am

So, when are you going to start writing for the trib?
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Re: This isn’t Nashville, Time to change tune in Pittsburgh

Postby Bioshock on Sun Mar 03, 2013 10:41 am

Bowser wrote:* Shero won't fire Bylsma during the season, which leaves changing the roster with those key veterans that Bylsma loves and needs.

* Pens were good enough to get a 3-1 series lead, so they weren't good enough to win 1 more game? When you lose to Montreal, ok you can understand after two long playoffs but you follow it up with a terrible choke job against Tampa Bay in the first round and then THAT from last year against Philadelphia. When momentum isn't on the side of the Penguins, those three losses don't exactly show Bylsma as being capable of adjusting. The team came from behind against Detroit to win the Cup, since then, they've been a disappointment and in my opinion,a failure. If they don't go far this year, it is time to make a change behind the bench.


I agree with this. I don't think Shero should even consider firing Bylsma this season though unless the team defense just becomes so bad that games like last night become a common theme.

I also think Shero should do two things at the trade deadline this year to help this situation.

1. Make conventional trades to help this team out like you would any normal year.
2. Make trades that protect Bylsma from himself.

What i mean by #2 is there are certain players on this Pens team that play no matter what (Glass, Kennedy, Engelland) and players on this team that don't seem to be given an opportunity or have an incredibly short leash at any given moment. (Bennett, Despres, Bortuzzo, Jeffrey)

If i can, i make it so Bylsma is forced to play these guys. In my opinion, this team would be better off if some of the younger players had a more prominent roll.

Just my 2 cents...
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Re: This isn’t Nashville, Time to change tune in Pittsburgh

Postby Orlando Penguin on Sun Mar 03, 2013 10:53 am

So who's the better alternative to Bylsma?
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Re: This isn’t Nashville, Time to change tune in Pittsburgh

Postby Bioshock on Sun Mar 03, 2013 10:56 am

Orlando Penguin wrote:So who's the better alternative to Bylsma?


No clue. That is why i don't advocate firing him during the season unless things just fall apart completely. I don't see that happening anyways.

Personally, i think Bylsma is a good coach. I just think something is missing from the room and Shero can fix that. Either by addition or subtraction.
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Re: This isn’t Nashville, Time to change tune in Pittsburgh

Postby Bowser on Sun Mar 03, 2013 11:15 am

Sometimes it isn't about 'better', it is about a new voice and adjustments... kinda like Bylsma did to Therrien's system during 08-09 Cup.

The direction of the team stinks right now (defensively), so those wins and points could once again mask the issues heading into the playoffs. If they lose again and I suspect they will with the current roster construction and coaching philosophy, then let's see how Shero reacts.

To think there are not other good coaches out there is a ridiculous. There was a ton of complaining when Shero brought up Bylsma, so it can happen again and doesn't have to be John Hynes (WBS coach). They could go always go with interim coach like Bill Guerin (just moved to Pittsburgh) or Tom Fitzgerald, then look for a long-term option after season. It won't happen, so right now, all the regular season success is just masking the real test, playoff hockey.
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Re: This isn’t Nashville, Time to change tune in Pittsburgh

Postby Pavel Bure on Sun Mar 03, 2013 11:57 am

Bowser wrote:Sometimes it isn't about 'better', it is about a new voice and adjustments... kinda like Bylsma did to Therrien's system during 08-09 Cup.

The direction of the team stinks right now (defensively), so those wins and points could once again mask the issues heading into the playoffs. If they lose again and I suspect they will with the current roster construction and coaching philosophy, then let's see how Shero reacts.

To think there are not other good coaches out there is a ridiculous. There was a ton of complaining when Shero brought up Bylsma, so it can happen again and doesn't have to be John Hynes (WBS coach). They could go always go with interim coach like Bill Guerin (just moved to Pittsburgh) or Tom Fitzgerald, then look for a long-term option after season. It won't happen, so right now, all the regular season success is just masking the real test, playoff hockey.

A guy like DB is the exception to the changing coaches rule. Typically coaches that are changed, especially mid-season, don't perform well and are gone by the beginning of the next season. To change the coach in the middle of the season is a desperation move made by teams either out of the playoffs and not getting better (Lindy Ruff) or quickly moving down the ranks and in danger of falling out of/missing the playoffs (FHCMT). I think most of us in this thread understand you don't like DB and think it's time for a change but the reasons that have been stated for this change aren't sound. Especially comparing a team like Nashville who is devoid of top tier scoring talent and a team like the Penguins. Even more so if you look at the personal Shero has provided DB to work with. It wasn't for lack of trying either. This team with Sutter and Parise on it is totally different than the current incarnation. While Shero didn't bring anyone else in after missing out on those 2 it was a shrewd decision because the rest of the FA market was pretty bare and would have been overpaying for marginal talent.
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Re: This isn’t Nashville, Time to change tune in Pittsburgh

Postby shmenguin on Sun Mar 03, 2013 12:00 pm

Defence21 wrote:
Bowser wrote:Pavel - 3 to 1 series lead and lost, that's a failure. I guess with Staal gone, Bylsma has another built in excuse.

No, because they traded him and replaced his position with a player with reasonable expectations to do so. When you lose Crosby and Malkin and expect to win with Mark Letestu as your second line center, you're being unrealistic.

With a healthy roster, this team should make a deep playoff run. Anything else is a disappointment, which is why last season hurt so bad. But the two years previous are pretty darn difficult to call anything other than bad luck.

Also, don't underestimate the fact that there always are two teams on the ice and that they want to win as well. It's not always peaches and cream, but calling the last three years a failure because of early playoff exits without considering the facts (major injuries) is unfair.


Yeah, last time I checked, Tampa obliterated a solid caps team and took the SC champs to 7 games. Some might even say they started playing great hockey when we had them at 3-1. They certainly didn't act like 3-1 is a death sentence like some people here think.
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Re: This isn’t Nashville, Time to change tune in Pittsburgh

Postby The Snapshot on Sun Mar 03, 2013 12:10 pm

Bowser wrote:Sometimes it isn't about 'better', it is about a new voice and adjustments... kinda like Bylsma did to Therrien's system during 08-09 Cup.

The direction of the team stinks right now (defensively), so those wins and points could once again mask the issues heading into the playoffs. If they lose again and I suspect they will with the current roster construction and coaching philosophy, then let's see how Shero reacts.

To think there are not other good coaches out there is a ridiculous. There was a ton of complaining when Shero brought up Bylsma, so it can happen again and doesn't have to be John Hynes (WBS coach). They could go always go with interim coach like Bill Guerin (just moved to Pittsburgh) or Tom Fitzgerald, then look for a long-term option after season. It won't happen, so right now, all the regular season success is just masking the real test, playoff hockey.


So, the article is at best about a month too early. If this continues into late March I will be concerned. The current team has two rookies seeing significant time on D, a back-up goalie whose game is struggling, a young winger trying to grow into the NHL role and a new 3rd line center who struggled early on with his role. We also have a concussed Center and PK issues to sort out.

I'd venture to say that these are things that should improve as more games are played in this short season with no camp to establish systems. I for one am happy that we aren't on of the teams struggling under expectations to move up from the bottom of the pile.

You have a team sitting 2nd in the Conference, while teams with equal expectations like Philly, Boston, NYR all struggle or play inconsistently. I wonder if other bloggers have this "fire the coach" angle covered in those markets?

These references to past failures to me are disconnected. The goalie lost the series two seasons in a row, and we were beaten by one of those teams that frustrated more than just the Pens and that rode hot goaltending to a Cinderalla role.

Those seasons all stand alone to me, as does the one where this team won the Cup. There are significant roles being occupied by players who were in other cities or Juniors when that Cup was won, as well as when these other seasons ended in failure.

If the message has stagnated, I think it should be on the players who were here, and the GM that continues to marginally fail at providing the key role players needed to win with this system.

Winning organizations have patience. Coaching change at 2nd in the conference is pure panic. If Bylsma was good enough to start this, he shoud finish it
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Re: This isn’t Nashville, Time to change tune in Pittsburgh

Postby The Snapshot on Sun Mar 03, 2013 12:15 pm

shmenguin wrote:
Defence21 wrote:
Bowser wrote:Pavel - 3 to 1 series lead and lost, that's a failure. I guess with Staal gone, Bylsma has another built in excuse.

No, because they traded him and replaced his position with a player with reasonable expectations to do so. When you lose Crosby and Malkin and expect to win with Mark Letestu as your second line center, you're being unrealistic.

With a healthy roster, this team should make a deep playoff run. Anything else is a disappointment, which is why last season hurt so bad. But the two years previous are pretty darn difficult to call anything other than bad luck.

Also, don't underestimate the fact that there always are two teams on the ice and that they want to win as well. It's not always peaches and cream, but calling the last three years a failure because of early playoff exits without considering the facts (major injuries) is unfair.


Yeah, last time I checked, Tampa obliterated a solid caps team and took the SC champs to 7 games. Some might even say they started playing great hockey when we had them at 3-1. They certainly didn't act like 3-1 is a death sentence like some people here think.


AND I'll say this again, Fleury failed in that series as well to outplay 10,000 year old Dwayne Roloson. He gave up soul-sucking goals all over those last three losses. I find it interesting that Fleury's reviews on this season don't as often suggest his firing.
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Re: This isn’t Nashville, Time to change tune in Pittsburgh

Postby penny lane on Sun Mar 03, 2013 12:19 pm

This shortened season it is all about the results in the play-offs. Streaks, individual awards, should not be the focus of this penguin team. They need to develop solid on ice habits. :( that hasn't happened consistently. It is hard to shut down a team; the pens always choose the other path of street hockey.

Tampa played that year without Vinny L and with 38-39 ? year old, D Roloson in goal.
That series was the epic failure of a power play and PK. Same from 2010 in the play-offs. AS they have since Ryan Malone left, there is no one with hands big enough to take the punishment in front of the net.

Bowser I enjoyed reading! :D
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Re: This isn’t Nashville, Time to change tune in Pittsburgh

Postby SolidSnake on Sun Mar 03, 2013 12:21 pm

Is the man crush with some people on here concerning Byslma so bad that they are suggesting of getting rid of Shero before Byslma? :lol: If so, I'm 100% convinced that Byslma got family members that post here.
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Re: This isn’t Nashville, Time to change tune in Pittsburgh

Postby Bowser on Sun Mar 03, 2013 1:20 pm

So if I have this right....

- Fleury's fault
- Shero's moves suck
- Bylsma isn't kind of coach to be fired
- Losing 3-1 series lead is acceptable if you don't have two players
- Direction of team means nothing
- Playoff loss is players fault, not Bylsma
- Ignore the PP, PK, breakout problems

After season is over and if team fails to go far, what is the reaction then? What happens if another first round exit? What happens if the defense is abused again? What happens if the goaltending was soft again? What happens if Crosby is always seeing the top checking line and D pairing at home? What happens if the passive PK is torched again? What happens if the PP is silent? What happens if breakouts are shutdown along wall?
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Re: This isn’t Nashville, Time to change tune in Pittsburgh

Postby Henry Hank on Sun Mar 03, 2013 1:24 pm

After season is over and if team fails to go far, what is the reaction then? What happens if another first round exit? What happens if the defense is abused again? What happens if the goaltending was soft again? What happens if Crosby is always seeing the top checking line and D pairing at home? What happens if the passive PK is torched again? What happens if the PP is silent? What happens if breakouts are shutdown along wall?


They'll get another new back-up goalie. Problem solved.
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Re: This isn’t Nashville, Time to change tune in Pittsburgh

Postby Bowser on Sun Mar 03, 2013 1:28 pm

HH - Let me fix that for you.

They'll buyout Vokoun's contract for 13-14 season and get another new back-up goalie. Problem solved.
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Re: This isn’t Nashville, Time to change tune in Pittsburgh

Postby CERV96 on Sun Mar 03, 2013 2:20 pm

Pie?
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Re: This isn’t Nashville, Time to change tune in Pittsburgh

Postby The Snapshot on Sun Mar 03, 2013 2:31 pm

Criticism does not equal insight. Chemistry is not a science in sports, so the term is probably misplaced, but the chemistry is off. That I'll agree on. The system is a good one if executed properly. The lack of adherence to it is an issue - which I guess you can blame on the coach, even though some of the best players are the worst offenders on the bad nights.

"Passive" PK is not a correct description of the PK system, yet I see it said on here over and over. The PK system is designed to pressure at appropriate times and then retreat to an active box when the team gains full control and possession. What the Pens have executed well in the past is designed to prevent prolonged control by denying entry and then pressuring whenever control is tenuous. It works, if executed.

The system defensively is still predicated more on possession than it is on allowing possession. It works as well, if executed properly.

Letang is capable of games like last night. In fact when he is playing well these games are more the norm. This system allows for him to play his game, and he just needs to play better. That can be said for every player on this team. The only thing I see as miscast in this system is the 4th line. Two guys there are just not fast enough to consistently wear the other team down in their own end.

The rest of the players just need to play better. Fire the coach, but the players play.
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