This isn’t Nashville, Time to change tune in Pittsburgh

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Re: This isn’t Nashville, Time to change tune in Pittsburgh

Postby Mr. Colby on Sun Mar 03, 2013 3:07 pm

Who is the onus on to reign things in as a team? It's either the coach or the captain. If it doesn't happen, who takes the blame?
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Re: This isn’t Nashville, Time to change tune in Pittsburgh

Postby FreeCandy44 on Sun Mar 03, 2013 3:08 pm

ENOUGH IS ENOUGH!!

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Re: This isn’t Nashville, Time to change tune in Pittsburgh

Postby Mr. Colby on Sun Mar 03, 2013 3:08 pm

The Snapshot wrote:
Mr. Colby wrote:I just don't understand these "it's the players' fault comments"...

Obviously it's the players' fault, they're the ones playing the game

But we've all been around the game long enough to know that the coach is the fall guy.

Stop acting like I'm arguing with you over whether to blame the coaches or the players.


Then stop saying goofy things like "we need a new voice". That seems to be blaming the coach, and forgive me if that makes me lump you in with the other high hockey IQ folks who want to replace the coach and write their blog about it.


There is a distinct difference between blaming the coach and saying the coach needs to be replaced
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Re: This isn’t Nashville, Time to change tune in Pittsburgh

Postby The Snapshot on Sun Mar 03, 2013 3:13 pm

Mr. Colby wrote:
The Snapshot wrote:
Mr. Colby wrote:I just don't understand these "it's the players' fault comments"...

Obviously it's the players' fault, they're the ones playing the game

But we've all been around the game long enough to know that the coach is the fall guy.

Stop acting like I'm arguing with you over whether to blame the coaches or the players.


Then stop saying goofy things like "we need a new voice". That seems to be blaming the coach, and forgive me if that makes me lump you in with the other high hockey IQ folks who want to replace the coach and write their blog about it.


There is a distinct difference between blaming the coach and saying the coach needs to be replaced


So you want to replace him for effect, with no concern over who it as long as he doesn't have a very slight lisp and wears glasses?
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Re: This isn’t Nashville, Time to change tune in Pittsburgh

Postby shmenguin on Sun Mar 03, 2013 3:20 pm

Mango Salsa wrote:Suggesting a change in coaches without providing a list of qualified candidates who would be an improvement over the current HC should be grounds for an immediate suspension of posting privileges.


You couldn't be more wrong.

Everyone wanted therrien out in 09. Like 4 people in the world knew anything about bylsma, and even they didn't think he was any kind of long term solution. So what then - should none of us have voiced our concern over therrien, even though history proved us correct?
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Re: This isn’t Nashville, Time to change tune in Pittsburgh

Postby dbizzle66 on Sun Mar 03, 2013 5:19 pm

FreeCandy44 wrote:ENOUGH IS ENOUGH!!



I am NOT a nugget!

RIP Owen
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Re: This isn’t Nashville, Time to change tune in Pittsburgh

Postby Froggy on Sun Mar 03, 2013 5:19 pm

shmenguin wrote:
Mango Salsa wrote:Suggesting a change in coaches without providing a list of qualified candidates who would be an improvement over the current HC should be grounds for an immediate suspension of posting privileges.


You couldn't be more wrong.

Everyone wanted therrien out in 09. Like 4 people in the world knew anything about bylsma, and even they didn't think he was any kind of long term solution. So what then - should none of us have voiced our concern over therrien, even though history proved us correct?


yes, but he was replaced by bylsma, who apparently coasted to a cup with therrien's system and players, and "choked" in the playoffs 3 straight years, and apparently now needs to be fired.

so your argument's greatest strength is its greatest weakness...
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Re: This isn’t Nashville, Time to change tune in Pittsburgh

Postby SolidSnake on Sun Mar 03, 2013 5:28 pm

Byslma may have a cup and Therrien doesn't but overall I think Therrien is a better coach
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Re: This isn’t Nashville, Time to change tune in Pittsburgh

Postby shmenguin on Sun Mar 03, 2013 5:34 pm

Froggy wrote:
shmenguin wrote:
Mango Salsa wrote:Suggesting a change in coaches without providing a list of qualified candidates who would be an improvement over the current HC should be grounds for an immediate suspension of posting privileges.


You couldn't be more wrong.

Everyone wanted therrien out in 09. Like 4 people in the world knew anything about bylsma, and even they didn't think he was any kind of long term solution. So what then - should none of us have voiced our concern over therrien, even though history proved us correct?


yes, but he was replaced by bylsma, who apparently coasted to a cup with therrien's system and players, and "choked" in the playoffs 3 straight years, and apparently now needs to be fired.

so your argument's greatest strength is its greatest weakness...


Hey I'm not saying that its time to fire anyone. But if and when I get to that point, I don't need to spend 6 weeks doing research on potential replacements before voicing my opinion.
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Re: This isn’t Nashville, Time to change tune in Pittsburgh

Postby Kaizer on Sun Mar 03, 2013 7:21 pm

tl,dr
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Re: This isn’t Nashville, Time to change tune in Pittsburgh

Postby Bowser on Sun Mar 03, 2013 7:40 pm

What is this the Washington Capitals message board?

Like Lee Flowers said of the Buccaneers, they are paper champs. If you're thrilled with the Penguins winning in the regular season... that's the way of the regular season banner raising Capitals.

Bylsma won't be fired by Shero, that's why I didn't list candidates but let's not be ignorant, there are plenty of coaches in hockey who could come in and do just as he did with Therrien's team by making some adjustments. Good luck if you Bylsma is going to be that guy because he's been on record as saying, if the team plays Pittsburgh Penguins Hockey, they don't need to worry about the other team.

No system changes, no line matching....

I suspect Shero has no choice but to go all-in with the current staff and make some roster changes to fit the style of play.
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Re: This isn’t Nashville, Time to change tune in Pittsburgh

Postby slappybrown on Sun Mar 03, 2013 8:01 pm

Bowser wrote:What is this the Washington Capitals message board?

Like Lee Flowers said of the Buccaneers, they are paper champs. If you're thrilled with the Penguins winning in the regular season... that's the way of the regular season banner raising Capitals.

Bylsma won't be fired by Shero, that's why I didn't list candidates but let's not be ignorant, there are plenty of coaches in hockey who could come in and do just as he did with Therrien's team by making some adjustments. Good luck if you Bylsma is going to be that guy because he's been on record as saying, if the team plays Pittsburgh Penguins Hockey, they don't need to worry about the other team.

No system changes, no line matching....

I suspect Shero has no choice but to go all-in with the current staff and make some roster changes to fit the style of play.

Most of your posts in this thread are you arguing with invented strawmen.

No one is saying LOL WE HAVE ARRIVED, WE ARE SECOND IN THE CONFERENCE in the style of Ted Leonsis. People are aware of the problems, including those that don't want to fire Bylsma. But, it is entirely reasonable to point out that the team's overall performance is amongst the top 5 or so overall in the NHL. Recognizing that things need to change with some tweaks to the roster rather than a more drastic firing of your head coach doesn't make this a Caps board.

The Bucs comparison is also silly. The core of this team won a Cup (leaving aside the fact that the Bucs won a Super Bowl a month after Flowers called them that).

No one is content with regular season success here. You know this.
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Re: This isn’t Nashville, Time to change tune in Pittsburgh

Postby penmyst on Sun Mar 03, 2013 11:27 pm

slappybrown wrote:Most of your posts in this thread are you arguing with invented strawmen.

No one is saying LOL WE HAVE ARRIVED, WE ARE SECOND IN THE CONFERENCE in the style of Ted Leonsis. People are aware of the problems, including those that don't want to fire Bylsma. But,


Everything before "but" is BS.

slappybrown wrote:it is entirely reasonable to point out that the team's overall performance is amongst the top 5 or so overall in the NHL. Recognizing that things need to change with some tweaks to the roster rather than a more drastic firing of your head coach doesn't make this a Caps board.


Funny, because that sort of satisfaction with the regular season winning in spite of glaringly UN-PLAYOFF manner in doing it? Is precisely and exactly what Caps fans do.

slappybrown wrote:No one is content with regular season success here. You know this.


If a person is defending what is happening on the ice (a hot mess of slop) by saying "we're at the top of the division" and "we are in the top 5 of NHL in winning"..... is sure as hell can and should be taken as being content with regular season success.
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Re: This isn’t Nashville, Time to change tune in Pittsburgh

Postby penmyst on Sun Mar 03, 2013 11:40 pm

Mr. Colby wrote:I just don't understand these "it's the players' fault comments"...

Obviously it's the players' fault, they're the ones playing the game

But we've all been around the game long enough to know that the coach is the fall guy.

Stop acting like I'm arguing with you over whether to blame the coaches or the players.


That is the seeming default mode of the HCDB defenders. Paint any criticisms as so player-friendly and blind to the players' roles in this... so as to dismiss their view as 100% biased.

It's quite clear, that the players are playing badly.

In science, we would then ask: Why?

At this point, to simplify things-- there are four reasonable possibilities.

1. The players stink and aren't capable of doing well, getting in the right spots, following their assignments.

2. The coaches stink and aren't capable of coaching the players well enough to be in the proper positions, implementing effective systems, and putting players in position to succeed.

3. Bad luck. The coaches have good plans/tactical adjustments, and the players are hustling in assignments and play... but the breaks aren't going their way as the hockey gods aren't smiling.

4. A combination of all.

Since it's never 100% of any, the best likelihood is 4. Now, how much is it divided? Well, that's where we are ALL hashing this out.

The Fire HCDB contingent obviously believes the majority lies with #2. The "trade-for-the Magic Bullet Player™ (usually Iginla)" contingent will tend to believe it is #1.

But neither side believes that 100%, it's merely a different assignment of percentage blame

Mr. Colby wrote:Who is the onus on to reign things in as a team? It's either the coach or the captain. If it doesn't happen, who takes the blame?


The coach. Period.

And therein lies the problem with "players'" coaches. I think there is a problem in that locker room that nobody is willing to make some people uncomfortable with garbage play.

I'm not looking for something drastic like healthy scratching Crosby. But outside of Sid, there is not one single other Pen that should be exempt from that. IF the reason they look so disheveled, disorganized, and incompetent out there IS because they are playing to their own tune and not the coach??? Sit em. There are plenty of D right now, no reason you can't sit Letang up in the press box. There are plenty of extra forwards, no reason you can't plant any of the F up in the press box if they are freelancing and missing assignments out there.

That is ONE arrow the coach has in his quiver. Taking away playing time. Now, former PHCMT would simply call em out in a presser. You know, making some guys uncomfortable when they aren't doing what they're supposed to be doing out there.

However, IF it is not the players intentionally being incompetent, lazy, or incorrigible but rather the system is failing when other teams probe/attack it.... then you end up in our thread here. ;)
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Re: This isn’t Nashville, Time to change tune in Pittsburgh

Postby Kovy27 on Sun Mar 03, 2013 11:55 pm

FIRE EVERYONE!
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Re: This isn’t Nashville, Time to change tune in Pittsburgh

Postby PensFanInDC on Mon Mar 04, 2013 12:18 am

penmyst wrote:
slappybrown wrote:Most of your posts in this thread are you arguing with invented strawmen.

No one is saying LOL WE HAVE ARRIVED, WE ARE SECOND IN THE CONFERENCE in the style of Ted Leonsis. People are aware of the problems, including those that don't want to fire Bylsma. But,


Everything before "but" is BS.

slappybrown wrote:it is entirely reasonable to point out that the team's overall performance is amongst the top 5 or so overall in the NHL. Recognizing that things need to change with some tweaks to the roster rather than a more drastic firing of your head coach doesn't make this a Caps board.


Funny, because that sort of satisfaction with the regular season winning in spite of glaringly UN-PLAYOFF manner in doing it? Is precisely and exactly what Caps fans do.

slappybrown wrote:No one is content with regular season success here. You know this.


If a person is defending what is happening on the ice (a hot mess of slop) by saying "we're at the top of the division" and "we are in the top 5 of NHL in winning"..... is sure as hell can and should be taken as being content with regular season success.



Image
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Re: This isn’t Nashville, Time to change tune in Pittsburgh

Postby Pens4Life on Mon Mar 04, 2013 2:40 am

The coaching change will happen in Burgh,if this team doesnt reach at least CF this season.. Otherwise I dont expect Shero will fire DB..
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Re: This isn’t Nashville, Time to change tune in Pittsburgh

Postby Kaizer on Mon Mar 04, 2013 7:57 am

i for one am not happy with their playoff performance this season. they havent won a single game.
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Re: This isn’t Nashville, Time to change tune in Pittsburgh

Postby slappybrown on Mon Mar 04, 2013 9:08 am

penmyst wrote:
slappybrown wrote:Most of your posts in this thread are you arguing with invented strawmen.

No one is saying LOL WE HAVE ARRIVED, WE ARE SECOND IN THE CONFERENCE in the style of Ted Leonsis. People are aware of the problems, including those that don't want to fire Bylsma. But,


Everything before "but" is BS.

slappybrown wrote:it is entirely reasonable to point out that the team's overall performance is amongst the top 5 or so overall in the NHL. Recognizing that things need to change with some tweaks to the roster rather than a more drastic firing of your head coach doesn't make this a Caps board.


Funny, because that sort of satisfaction with the regular season winning in spite of glaringly UN-PLAYOFF manner in doing it? Is precisely and exactly what Caps fans do.

slappybrown wrote:No one is content with regular season success here. You know this.


If a person is defending what is happening on the ice (a hot mess of slop) by saying "we're at the top of the division" and "we are in the top 5 of NHL in winning"..... is sure as hell can and should be taken as being content with regular season success.


I don't think you understand that (1) believing this teams requires changes in personnel; (2) appreciating that they are currently amongst the top teams in their conference and so a drastic move such a coaching change mid-season may not be necessary; and (3) thinking this team as currently constituted will not win the Cup are not mutually exclusive.

No one is "happy" with being one of the top 3 teams in the Eastern Conference if the results in the playoffs aren't anything short of CF/SCF.

Let me be clear: MOST PEOPLE HERE ARE NOT DEFENDING THE DEFENSIVE PLAY WITH A BLANKET "HERP DERP WE ARE SECOND IN THE CONFERENCE SHUT UP HATERZ." That's not happening. You seem to want to read that into people's posts (at least those people in this thread), but its not there. Keep responding to imagined arguments though, its a lot more fun that way for you I suppose.

Everyone can see the problems they have are similar to those that knocked them out last year. Believing that this problem can be addressed by the GM doesn't make someone a "Byslma believer", whatever that is (and my other posts indicate that I am probably somewhere in the middle on whether Bylsma should be fired). I don't think any coach is winning a Cup with this team as currently constituted.
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Re: This isn’t Nashville, Time to change tune in Pittsburgh

Postby slappybrown on Mon Mar 04, 2013 9:09 am

PensFanInDC wrote:
penmyst wrote:
slappybrown wrote:Most of your posts in this thread are you arguing with invented strawmen.

No one is saying LOL WE HAVE ARRIVED, WE ARE SECOND IN THE CONFERENCE in the style of Ted Leonsis. People are aware of the problems, including those that don't want to fire Bylsma. But,


Everything before "but" is BS.

slappybrown wrote:it is entirely reasonable to point out that the team's overall performance is amongst the top 5 or so overall in the NHL. Recognizing that things need to change with some tweaks to the roster rather than a more drastic firing of your head coach doesn't make this a Caps board.


Funny, because that sort of satisfaction with the regular season winning in spite of glaringly UN-PLAYOFF manner in doing it? Is precisely and exactly what Caps fans do.

slappybrown wrote:No one is content with regular season success here. You know this.


If a person is defending what is happening on the ice (a hot mess of slop) by saying "we're at the top of the division" and "we are in the top 5 of NHL in winning"..... is sure as hell can and should be taken as being content with regular season success.



Image

That was my reaction as well.
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Re: This isn’t Nashville, Time to change tune in Pittsburgh

Postby count2infinity on Mon Mar 04, 2013 9:40 am

This is why people hate the penguins and their fans...
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Re: This isn’t Nashville, Time to change tune in Pittsburgh

Postby Gaucho on Mon Mar 04, 2013 9:51 am

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