The Snapshot wrote: BurghersAndDogsSports wrote:
Again, I am not Michalek apologist at all, but the reasoning and denial regarding our current crop of defensive players is getting to the point its down right laughable. Orpik might as well be shooting pucks into our own net at this point.
Here is proof:
which Franchise would seem to be better at building winning teams?
Seriously? What have the Pens done since 2008-09 to warrant that comment? You are admitting our GM made an awful expensive mistake and in the same breath you ask which one is better at building winning teams. I mean, its not like Phoenix is some slouch with personnel issues. Inf fact in a better situation they might have been able to sign a player or two and take the whole damn thing. They actually got a lot further than us last year if I remember correctly.. I actually think you make my point by asking that question.
Ok, done with this topic. Later all.
You are comparing Phoenix with the Penguins now? Nice grasp at straws and then sign off? You've talked yourself into a corner, so now you're done?
Nobody is denying that the D needs work. It DOES NOT need Michalek and you are nuts for even defending it, or Talbot or Fedotenko. You're point is that only you can see how good terrible players are and that they get run off by someone widely regarded as one of the best GMs in the business.
Tell me how good Tangradi was since I am sure I missed that too.
Ummm, is this a joke? You clearly compared them I didn't, I responded to your comparison as if the pens have some superior management to other teams so much that is actually proves YOUR POINT - we are so superior they took Michalek off our hands, point proven? Give me a break. If anything you bringing them up proves they know how to have players that are successful and we screwed up by signing him so the reality is I am not even what point you are trying to make other than pure Pens Goggles Arrogance. To recap - you brought it up as evidence to your point, not me.
And it actually shows the opposite of what you think it proves so I am not even sure what you were getting at.
Next, I never said the penguins needed Michalek. I said they were better defensively with him in the line up then they are now. You use opinion based observations to make your point (he lays down too much, he is soft, he doesnt play the way I like, Orpik is better because he hits).
I am stating facts. When he played for the pens they gave up far less goals when he was on the ice and in the playoffs, which are kind of important in winning a cup, he was so statistically superior to Orpik it's not even in the same reality, its actually almost not believable. And this year Orpik and Letang have been so bad in their own end its actually almost not believable.
You: he lays down to much and has eggs in his pants that don't break and Ill deal with Orpiks mistakes, which are far more than his because I like those mistakes better.
Me: Other teams score far less goals when he is on the ice. Orpik was on the ice for 133%
more goals than ZM in last years playoffs.
My point about the other players was merely we let go of some assets who are in the mold of things we are missing now, and they ended up horrendous here and turned out to have decent seasons elsewhere. Thats not a stretch, its a fact. And there could actually be a reason for that.
I said I was done because I am tired of arguing facts vs. your opinion. Its lose lose. The facts are not arguable, its not like he was on the ice for one less goal and played harder minutes or we could give any reason to dispute them. The Pens top 4 carried insane minutes in the playoffs, in all situations. He continues to be a decent player and our guys are crapping the bed. But hey he was soff so bye bye. And we are smarter so its clear that you are correct.