rossi discusses trading 58

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Re: rossi discusses trading 58

Postby shmenguin on Tue Mar 05, 2013 10:00 am

letang is really good. like really, really good.

he's also one of the fixtures on the #3 PP in the league. so even if he's not going to be a "QB", it's hard to dispute that he should be on the ice. the only things he should be working on are knowing when to dial back the offense and when to not go in full brat mode against philly. other then that, he's gold.
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Re: rossi discusses trading 58

Postby Pitt87 on Tue Mar 05, 2013 10:44 am

shmenguin wrote:letang is really good. like really, really good.

he's also one of the fixtures on the #3 PP in the league. so even if he's not going to be a "QB", it's hard to dispute that he should be on the ice. the only things he should be working on are knowing when to dial back the offense and when to not go in full brat mode against philly. other then that, he's gold.


As he's matured, his passing has gone from really good to silky smooth. There aren't many puck movers as good as him right now... If he could learn how to sneak his shot through instead of trying to bring the cannon each time, I think he'd be a perfect QB.
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Re: rossi discusses trading 58

Postby FLPensFan on Tue Mar 05, 2013 11:37 am

While I don't discount the possibility of trading Letang at some point like Whitney/Goligoski, the difference right now is none of the Pens young D-prospects are ready to take over for Letang. When we traded Whitney, we had Gonchar on the roster and Goligoski showing signs of improving. Letang was also in the mix, just not to the level he is today. When we traded Gogo, Letang had proven he was ready and could be that offensive puck moving defensemen. Despres isn't going to replace Letang at this point. I don't see Letang going anywhere until one of our other D-men like Morrow, Pouliot, or Maata are on the Pens blue line and showing improvement over a few years.
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Re: rossi discusses trading 58

Postby shmenguin on Tue Mar 05, 2013 11:40 am

the only only only way that this team considers moving letang is if we have another meltdown in the playoffs against philly with letang completely losing his f'ing mind again. but even then, i wouldn't expect anything to happen.
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Re: rossi discusses trading 58

Postby Digitalgypsy66 on Tue Mar 05, 2013 11:41 am

shmenguin wrote:the only only only way that this team considers moving letang is if we have another meltdown in the playoffs against philly with letang completely losing his f'ing mind again. but even then, i wouldn't expect anything to happen.

Or if he has unreasonable salary demands.... :pop:
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Re: rossi discusses trading 58

Postby shmenguin on Tue Mar 05, 2013 11:46 am

Digitalgypsy66 wrote:
shmenguin wrote:the only only only way that this team considers moving letang is if we have another meltdown in the playoffs against philly with letang completely losing his f'ing mind again. but even then, i wouldn't expect anything to happen.

Or if he has unreasonable salary demands.... :pop:


this team will pay him his 6-6.5 mill.
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Re: rossi discusses trading 58

Postby Defence21 on Tue Mar 05, 2013 11:59 am

shmenguin wrote:
Digitalgypsy66 wrote:
shmenguin wrote:the only only only way that this team considers moving letang is if we have another meltdown in the playoffs against philly with letang completely losing his f'ing mind again. but even then, i wouldn't expect anything to happen.

Or if he has unreasonable salary demands.... :pop:


this team will pay him his 6-6.5 mill.

They might..but finding room to nearly double his current $3.5 million cap hit will prove to be much more difficult than finding room to keep Malkin around at a slight increase. If they feel a deal can't be reached that will benefit both player and team, Letang will be traded this summer for a package that includes one or two NHL-ready/NHL-established players and a high end prospect...if not more.

I want Letang to be a part of this team moving forward, but it just might not be possible.
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Re: rossi discusses trading 58

Postby shmenguin on Tue Mar 05, 2013 12:05 pm

Defence21 wrote:
shmenguin wrote:
Digitalgypsy66 wrote:
shmenguin wrote:the only only only way that this team considers moving letang is if we have another meltdown in the playoffs against philly with letang completely losing his f'ing mind again. but even then, i wouldn't expect anything to happen.

Or if he has unreasonable salary demands.... :pop:


this team will pay him his 6-6.5 mill.

They might..but finding room to nearly double his current $3.5 million cap hit will prove to be much more difficult than finding room to keep Malkin around at a slight increase. If they feel a deal can't be reached that will benefit both player and team, Letang will be traded this summer for a package that includes one or two NHL-ready/NHL-established players and a high end prospect...if not more.

I want Letang to be a part of this team moving forward, but it just might not be possible.


you save a couple mill off the bat by replacing niskanen with despres. and maybe orpik would take a pay cut. part of the value of drafting all these d-men is that they'll be cheap for a few years. and we just need 2 of them 2 be top 4 capable in a couple years, and we'll be able to fill our d lineup and sign letang at a high price.
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Re: rossi discusses trading 58

Postby joopen on Tue Mar 05, 2013 12:07 pm

Defence21 wrote:
shmenguin wrote:
Digitalgypsy66 wrote:
shmenguin wrote:the only only only way that this team considers moving letang is if we have another meltdown in the playoffs against philly with letang completely losing his f'ing mind again. but even then, i wouldn't expect anything to happen.

Or if he has unreasonable salary demands.... :pop:


this team will pay him his 6-6.5 mill.

They might..but finding room to nearly double his current $3.5 million cap hit will prove to be much more difficult than finding room to keep Malkin around at a slight increase. If they feel a deal can't be reached that will benefit both player and team, Letang will be traded this summer for a package that includes one or two NHL-ready/NHL-established players and a high end prospect...if not more.

I want Letang to be a part of this team moving forward, but it just might not be possible.


You, as an organization, have to understand that keeping Letang means letting Orpik (and to a lesser extent Niskanen) walk at the end of his contract and being OK with that.
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Re: rossi discusses trading 58

Postby Idoit40fans on Tue Mar 05, 2013 12:11 pm

Defence21 wrote:
shmenguin wrote:
Digitalgypsy66 wrote:
shmenguin wrote:the only only only way that this team considers moving letang is if we have another meltdown in the playoffs against philly with letang completely losing his f'ing mind again. but even then, i wouldn't expect anything to happen.

Or if he has unreasonable salary demands.... :pop:


this team will pay him his 6-6.5 mill.

They might..but finding room to nearly double his current $3.5 million cap hit will prove to be much more difficult than finding room to keep Malkin around at a slight increase. If they feel a deal can't be reached that will benefit both player and team, Letang will be traded this summer for a package that includes one or two NHL-ready/NHL-established players and a high end prospect...if not more.

I want Letang to be a part of this team moving forward, but it just might not be possible.


The Pens don't have a defenseman whose absence would devastate me. It would be ideal to keep him, but if they have to trade him, I think I would be happy with the return they'd be able to get.
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Re: rossi discusses trading 58

Postby Caputi19 on Tue Mar 05, 2013 12:15 pm

Trade him to ducks in deal for perry and palmieri
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Re: rossi discusses trading 58

Postby slappybrown on Tue Mar 05, 2013 12:19 pm

Caputi19 wrote:Trade him to ducks in deal for perry and palmieri

Man, what a username. :fist:
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Re: rossi discusses trading 58

Postby Defence21 on Tue Mar 05, 2013 12:44 pm

joopen wrote:
Defence21 wrote:
shmenguin wrote:
Digitalgypsy66 wrote:
shmenguin wrote:the only only only way that this team considers moving letang is if we have another meltdown in the playoffs against philly with letang completely losing his f'ing mind again. but even then, i wouldn't expect anything to happen.

Or if he has unreasonable salary demands.... :pop:


this team will pay him his 6-6.5 mill.

They might..but finding room to nearly double his current $3.5 million cap hit will prove to be much more difficult than finding room to keep Malkin around at a slight increase. If they feel a deal can't be reached that will benefit both player and team, Letang will be traded this summer for a package that includes one or two NHL-ready/NHL-established players and a high end prospect...if not more.

I want Letang to be a part of this team moving forward, but it just might not be possible.


You, as an organization, have to understand that keeping Letang means letting Orpik (and to a lesser extent Niskanen) walk at the end of his contract and being OK with that.

If the question is Letang or Orpik, it's Letang every day of the week and twice on Sunday. But it's not as simple as just letting a veteran, physical, shut-down type defenseman walk and filling the gaps with unproven rookies who might not even be ready. So letting Orpik walk then means another defender likely has to be signed, which means more money against the cap.

I'm not at all advocating trading Letang, but this, by no means, will be a simple signing.
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Re: rossi discusses trading 58

Postby joopen on Tue Mar 05, 2013 9:59 pm

Defence21 wrote:If the question is Letang or Orpik, it's Letang every day of the week and twice on Sunday. But it's not as simple as just letting a veteran, physical, shut-down type defenseman walk and filling the gaps with unproven rookies who might not even be ready. So letting Orpik walk then means another defender likely has to be signed, which means more money against the cap.

I'm not at all advocating trading Letang, but this, by no means, will be a simple signing.


The only NHL defenseman they have under contract for that year is Paul Martin. Despres will be an RFA assuming he doesn't get traded. Everyone else is off the books. I'm assuming Bortuzzo will probably be around since he will be RFA this summer. That means you have Martin, Bortuzzo, Despres, Letang. Letang will be at least Martin's contract but lets say $6M so you have $11M tied up in 2 defenders. You really can't afford another $3M+ guy back there. You hope that is a solid enough top 4 by then and you have a couple younger guys who can play some lower minutes (Dumoulin and Morrow) and fill one more vet who is cheaper. Maybe Brooks takes $2M to stay here but who knows. Its going to be hard to fit Orpik if Letang gets his deal. $6M, $5M, $2M for Despres? $1M for Bortuzzo? Thats $14M with a salary cap that will be lower than it is this year in all likelyhood. Add $0.9 for both Dumoulin and Morrow and you are at roughly $16M.

$16M - Martin, Letang, Despres, Bortuzzo, Dumoulin, Morrow
$8.7M - Sid
$8.7M - Geno (Best case scenario)
$5M - Neal
$5M - Fleury

You need to fill 13 roster spots with whatever cap space is left. Worst case scenario is a $64M cap and we have $20M for 13 spots or $1.5M per player... yikes. Hopefully they are back up to say $67M which nets us another $300k per player. Its going to be tough to afford anyone making more than $3M and field a full roster.

Edit: forgot that Bennett will still be on EL for $0.9M so thats 1 less roster spot but the point stands.
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Re: rossi discusses trading 58

Postby The Snapshot on Tue Mar 05, 2013 10:04 pm

joopen wrote:
Defence21 wrote:If the question is Letang or Orpik, it's Letang every day of the week and twice on Sunday. But it's not as simple as just letting a veteran, physical, shut-down type defenseman walk and filling the gaps with unproven rookies who might not even be ready. So letting Orpik walk then means another defender likely has to be signed, which means more money against the cap.

I'm not at all advocating trading Letang, but this, by no means, will be a simple signing.


The only NHL defenseman they have under contract for that year is Paul Martin. Despres will be an RFA assuming he doesn't get traded. Everyone else is off the books. I'm assuming Bortuzzo will probably be around since he will be RFA this summer. That means you have Martin, Bortuzzo, Despres, Letang. Letang will be at least Martin's contract but lets say $6M so you have $11M tied up in 2 defenders. You really can't afford another $3M+ guy back there. You hope that is a solid enough top 4 by then and you have a couple younger guys who can play some lower minutes (Dumoulin and Morrow) and fill one more vet who is cheaper. Maybe Brooks takes $2M to stay here but who knows. Its going to be hard to fit Orpik if Letang gets his deal. $6M, $5M, $2M for Despres? $1M for Bortuzzo? Thats $14M with a salary cap that will be lower than it is this year in all likelyhood. Add $0.9 for both Dumoulin and Morrow and you are at roughly $16M.

$16M - Martin, Letang, Despres, Bortuzzo, Dumoulin, Morrow
$8.7M - Sid
$8.7M - Geno (Best case scenario)
$5M - Neal
$5M - Fleury

You need to fill 13 roster spots with whatever cap space is left. Worst case scenario is a $64M cap and we have $20M for 13 spots or $1.5M per player... yikes. Hopefully they are back up to say $67M which nets us another $300k per player. Its going to be tough to afford anyone making more than $3M and field a full roster.

Edit: forgot that Bennett will still be on EL for $0.9M so thats 1 less roster spot but the point stands.


Can't have Letang and Malkin after next year. Despres and/or Morrow will be ready. I think it's Letang, but I'm going to enjoy him while he's here. He is frustratingly magnificent.
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Re: rossi discusses trading 58

Postby pcm on Tue Mar 05, 2013 11:07 pm

Spending $16m on defense is relatively mid-low range for teams. The Canucks spend @ $22m, the Pens spend @ $17m (and we have $8m in cap space) and the Blues spend @ $14m. The cap in 2014 will likely be right about where it is this year. I'm not worried at all about fitting in Letang's salary and fielding a competitive D. In fact, the pipeline of young guys will start to pay off right about then, because it'll mean cheap talent.
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Re: rossi discusses trading 58

Postby smoothmoneyb on Wed Mar 06, 2013 1:17 am

DontToewsMeBro wrote:
mikey287 wrote:
marek wrote:I'd only trade Letang if you were able to package him along with extra overpaid baggage like Kennedy and in return get a scoring winger and a shut down Dman... so yes I'd take Eberle or Yakupov and Smid... but I think we could also use a bit of muscle on the third or fourth line too... a lot to ask

I think calgary is an option too... Letang and Kennedy for Iginla and Giordano


I don't think Edmonton or Calgary would have any interest in either of those deals at all. But I'm not Feaster or Tambellini.


Well Feaster's ineptitude did almost cost Calgary a bunch of draft picks for nothing, so I wouldn't rule out the possibility. :P

Letang's value is (at this point) far above Jordan Staal's. Wouldn't you agree?


I would say slightly above. At the end of the day, both are going to be getting paid about the same...
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Re: rossi discusses trading 58

Postby PensFromDC on Wed Mar 06, 2013 2:25 am

Why is everyone so quick to ship Letang away? I believe we could sign him for 6.5 M (3 M more than current salary), and still afford Malkin. The better option is to trade Martin or use our buyout (from new CBA, if necessary).

Everyone knows how great he has been this year but if it comes down to him or Letang, I choose Letang. Does no one agree with the below logic?

Letang + 2 M cap space > Martin + 3.5 M cap space


My point is with the buyout ability we have many options.
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Re: rossi discusses trading 58

Postby MRandall25 on Wed Mar 06, 2013 2:40 am

I don't agree with that logic, simply because Paul Martin's play in the defensive zone far outweighs what Letang can accomplish in the offensive zone.

As it's been said, our problem is not scoring. It's keeping the puck out of our net. Having Martin on the ice gives us a much better chance at accomplishing this than not having him on the ice.
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Re: rossi discusses trading 58

Postby Pens4Life on Wed Mar 06, 2013 3:48 am

Salary cap really shouldnt be a problem to have a good D pairings after 2013-14..

Letang 5.5, Martin 5, Orpik 2.75, Despres 2, Morrow 0.9, Dumoulin 0.9, Bortuzzo 1.25

even with those numbers we should use SC wisely on F.. It all starts with D!
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Re: rossi discusses trading 58

Postby PensFromDC on Wed Mar 06, 2013 4:28 am

MRandall25 wrote:I don't agree with that logic, simply because Paul Martin's play in the defensive zone far outweighs what Letang can accomplish in the offensive zone.

As it's been said, our problem is not scoring. It's keeping the puck out of our net. Having Martin on the ice gives us a much better chance at accomplishing this than not having him on the ice.


how about something like this?

Question though, how do the buyouts work? Could we potentially work a deal to buyout a player and resign them for cheaper? The player would get more $ and the team would clear space...



Image

obviously it would be tight, and there may be some reaches here, but this could be a possibility to keep Letang/ Geno/ Martin... Point is Letang doesn't have to go.
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Re: rossi discusses trading 58

Postby Froggy on Wed Mar 06, 2013 7:59 am

I believe a team won't be able to resign a player that gets bought out
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Re: rossi discusses trading 58

Postby Rylan on Wed Mar 06, 2013 8:05 am

Froggy wrote:I believe a team won't be able to resign a player that gets bought out


Correct.
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Re: rossi discusses trading 58

Postby the wicked child on Wed Mar 06, 2013 8:15 am

The chances of Letang being traded this season are extremely slim, IMO. The ONLY way I can see that happening is if someone offers Shero the moon. Beyond that, the only way I see it happening next year is if Letang either refuses to re-sign with us or if he asks for an absurd amount of money. Maybe you see it at some point down the line (talking years) if we have someone ready to fill his shoes... I don't see anyone able to do that right now.

I think the current system and lack of accountability (for veterans) is more to blame for his current recklessness than inability to dial it back. It would be short-sighted, and somewhat crazy IMHO to ship out someone with his talent now.
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Re: rossi discusses trading 58

Postby Kovy27 on Wed Mar 06, 2013 8:22 am

Froggy wrote:I believe a team won't be able to resign a player that gets bought out


You are correct sir.
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