Bennett to get extensive time on 2nd line

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Re: Bennett to get extensive time on 2nd line

Postby farnham16 on Wed Mar 06, 2013 8:40 pm

I'll believe "all three periods" when I see it. Hope Bylsma is sincere about this. But we'll see what happens when Bennett makes a mistake out there and how quickly he is demoted.
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Re: Bennett to get extensive time on 2nd line

Postby booboo on Wed Mar 06, 2013 9:41 pm

Meh, they are just bumping up his trade value.
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Re: Bennett to get extensive time on 2nd line

Postby Nizzy on Wed Mar 06, 2013 9:51 pm

Just get Kennedy off this team, I don't even care about anything else.
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Re: Bennett to get extensive time on 2nd line

Postby KG on Wed Mar 06, 2013 10:01 pm

sil wrote:"All three periods" my butt.

Bylsma's "extended look" equates to "We'll give you two mistakes until benc......wait, is your name Engellend"?


All three periods?? what if it goes to OT??? all bets are off! :scared: :D
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Re: Bennett to get extensive time on 2nd line

Postby Beveridge on Wed Mar 06, 2013 10:39 pm

KG wrote:
sil wrote:"All three periods" my butt.

Bylsma's "extended look" equates to "We'll give you two mistakes until benc......wait, is your name Engellend"?


All three periods?? what if it goes to OT??? all bets are off! :scared: :D



Pff, that joke coach we have will probably take Dupuis away from Kunitz and Sid if we go OT. :pop:
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Re: Bennett to get extensive time on 2nd line

Postby Henry Hank on Wed Mar 06, 2013 10:44 pm

I think they'll be pretty patient with Bennett. He's already showing that he belongs in the NHL as he's putting up some points and is holding his own in puck battles. The key thing is that he's only 21 and has little pro experience. He's a legitimate prospect. It's a little different than a chump like Tangradi who is several years older, has plenty of history of failure, and worst of all showed little to no improvement over the years.

Having said that, if Bennett goes eight games without putting up anymore points they'd probably drop him down again. I don't really see that happening because he's already shown that he can take advantage of opportunities, which other guys didn't do. Bennett is following the path to sticking in the NHL the way guys like Staal, Talbot, and Kennedy did in recent years.
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Re: Bennett to get extensive time on 2nd line

Postby Beveridge on Wed Mar 06, 2013 10:49 pm

If Bylsma putting Bennet out in a 5 on 3 doesn't tell you anything, I'm not sure what would.
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Re: Bennett to get extensive time on 2nd line

Postby Pavel Bure on Thu Mar 07, 2013 12:06 am

Henry Hank wrote:I think they'll be pretty patient with Bennett. He's already showing that he belongs in the NHL as he's putting up some points and is holding his own in puck battles. The key thing is that he's only 21 and has little pro experience. He's a legitimate prospect. It's a little different than a chump like Tangradi who is several years older, has plenty of history of failure, and worst of all showed little to no improvement over the years.

Having said that, if Bennett goes eight games without putting up anymore points they'd probably drop him down again. I don't really see that happening because he's already shown that he can take advantage of opportunities, which other guys didn't do. Bennett is following the path to sticking in the NHL the way guys like Staal, Talbot, and Kennedy did in recent years.

As Bennett really works his way into the season and most importantly IMO puts on some weight (muscle) I think he'll fit in just fine. Right now he's a little undersized but it's to be expected from a rookie. Heck Staal was under 200lbs if I'm not mistaken his rookie year and ended up at 220 by the time he left here.
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Re: Bennett to get extensive time on 2nd line

Postby meecrofilm on Thu Mar 07, 2013 12:29 am

As far as weight goes, Bennett is pretty much where he needs to be. He could stand to get stronger on his skates and with the puck, (i.e. balance) which doesn't necessarily equate to just putting on weight, as he's around 200 pounds already.
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Re: Bennett to get extensive time on 2nd line

Postby DontToewsMeBro on Thu Mar 07, 2013 12:42 am

Beveridge wrote:If Bylsma putting Bennet out in a 5 on 3 doesn't tell you anything, I'm not sure what would.


I liked that the players were cerebral enough to try to force Bennett the puck on that powerplay a little bit.
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Re: Bennett to get extensive time on 2nd line

Postby Defence21 on Thu Mar 07, 2013 10:27 am

Henry Hank wrote:I think they'll be pretty patient with Bennett. He's already showing that he belongs in the NHL as he's putting up some points and is holding his own in puck battles. The key thing is that he's only 21 and has little pro experience. He's a legitimate prospect. It's a little different than a chump like Tangradi who is several years older, has plenty of history of failure, and worst of all showed little to no improvement over the years.

Having said that, if Bennett goes eight games without putting up anymore points they'd probably drop him down again. I don't really see that happening because he's already shown that he can take advantage of opportunities, which other guys didn't do. Bennett is following the path to sticking in the NHL the way guys like Staal, Talbot, and Kennedy did in recent years.

I agree. Bennett might not remain on Malkin's line for every shift of the rest of the season, but his AHL days are over. There's nothing wrong with using line demotions as a way to teach a young player. And, let's be honest, his couple weeks with Sutter in a defense-first role are hardly the worst thing that could happen to a young offense-first forward.

So many people believe that a scoring prospect HAS to play on a scoring line to learn the game. Wrong. In fact, I believe more can be learned playing on lower lines, where a player doesn't have a superstar center to feed him the puck. There is nothing wrong with the way Bennett has been treated since his promotion.

As for Despres and Bortuzzo, let's see here....

Despres' handling, as someone mentioned above, is strikingly similar to that of Letang. Looking at how Letang has developed into a perennial Norris Trophy candidate, I think it's safe to say his early treatment might well have been more successful than not.

Bortuzzo's handling reminds me a lotof the way Scuderi's career began. He didn't get the ice time of other similar-aged defenders early in his career, but as time went on, he proved his way into a permanent roster spot and eventually a big paycheck. Seemed like it worked for him, no?

Could it be possible that the gradual process of easing players into the NHL rather than throwing them to the wolves on a nightly basis is, gasp, a sound coaching/player development strategy and not a successful attempt at angering the fanbase? No...can't be. Bylsma's sole goal is to anger the fanbase and not to sustain a successful franchise.
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Re: Bennett to get extensive time on 2nd line

Postby Hawkeynut on Thu Mar 07, 2013 10:28 am

If this team doesn't perform who is the first to get fired? Bylsma. So it only makes sense that he only focuses on winning NOW (especially in a short season) with what he deems are his best assets. Having 3 rookies in a veteran laden lineup presents alot of issues and mistakes at the wrong times can cost wins, so it only makes sense that Bylsma balances rookie experience versus veteran experience. Some of you make him out to being a Bennett/Depres hater. But ultimately the success of this team dictates the success of his career. So of course he is going to sit rookies when the rest of us armchair coaches would rather see them play.
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Re: Bennett to get extensive time on 2nd line

Postby columbia on Thu Mar 07, 2013 10:39 am

Defence21 wrote:
Henry Hank wrote:I think they'll be pretty patient with Bennett. He's already showing that he belongs in the NHL as he's putting up some points and is holding his own in puck battles. The key thing is that he's only 21 and has little pro experience. He's a legitimate prospect. It's a little different than a chump like Tangradi who is several years older, has plenty of history of failure, and worst of all showed little to no improvement over the years.

Having said that, if Bennett goes eight games without putting up anymore points they'd probably drop him down again. I don't really see that happening because he's already shown that he can take advantage of opportunities, which other guys didn't do. Bennett is following the path to sticking in the NHL the way guys like Staal, Talbot, and Kennedy did in recent years.

I agree. Bennett might not remain on Malkin's line for every shift of the rest of the season, but his AHL days are over. There's nothing wrong with using line demotions as a way to teach a young player. And, let's be honest, his couple weeks with Sutter in a defense-first role are hardly the worst thing that could happen to a young offense-first forward.

So many people believe that a scoring prospect HAS to play on a scoring line to learn the game. Wrong. In fact, I believe more can be learned playing on lower lines, where a player doesn't have a superstar center to feed him the puck. There is nothing wrong with the way Bennett has been treated since his promotion.

As for Despres and Bortuzzo, let's see here....

Despres' handling, as someone mentioned above, is strikingly similar to that of Letang. Looking at how Letang has developed into a perennial Norris Trophy candidate, I think it's safe to say his early treatment might well have been more successful than not.

Bortuzzo's handling reminds me a lotof the way Scuderi's career began. He didn't get the ice time of other similar-aged defenders early in his career, but as time went on, he proved his way into a permanent roster spot and eventually a big paycheck. Seemed like it worked for him, no?

Could it be possible that the gradual process of easing players into the NHL rather than throwing them to the wolves on a nightly basis is, gasp, a sound coaching/player development strategy and not a successful attempt at angering the fanbase? No...can't be. Bylsma's sole goal is to anger the fanbase and not to sustain a successful franchise.


Bortuzzo appears to be on the correct path, but playing every night until the end of the season is not going to prepare him to be reliable (and relatively free to rookie mistakes) in the playoffs.
One could argue that if had played every game (in Engelland's place), that perhaps things would be different....but that's not what happened and they have to go with reality now. Hopefully Eaton can succeed and - better yet - they can bring in someone with a little more grit to pair with Niskanen.

Despres is obviously 1.) a much better hockey player and 2.) well further ahead in his development path. HE needs to be in the lineup just about every night, if they are going to rely on him in the playoffs.
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Re: Bennett to get extensive time on 2nd line

Postby Defence21 on Thu Mar 07, 2013 10:44 am

Hawkeynut wrote:If this team doesn't perform who is the first to get fired? Bylsma. So it only makes sense that he only focuses on winning NOW (especially in a short season) with what he deems are his best assets. Having 3 rookies in a veteran laden lineup presents alot of issues and mistakes at the wrong times can cost wins, so it only makes sense that Bylsma balances rookie experience versus veteran experience. Some of you make him out to being a Bennett/Depres hater. But ultimately the success of this team dictates the success of his career. So of course he is going to sit rookies when the rest of us armchair coaches would rather see them play.

No question that plays into his decisions -- but I also think that can backfire if he never takes chances. There's a fine line between playing the proven best players and playing the best players. We don't see what goes on in practice, what attitudes these young guys have, what level of confidence they have. There's a lot more than just "potential" that is factored into deciding rookie icetime.

It's easy for us to say "this guy should play over that guy," but being an NHL coach requires more than Xs and Os. Some things to consider:

- Win now to keep job
- Develop talent gradually to keep job longer
- Maintain trust/respect of current roster
- Maintain strong reputation around the league so free agents don't avoid his team
- Determine game-night lineups based on "feel" mixed with stats and the eye test

A player might look shaky or flat out bad in a game, but if his replacement looks even worse in practice, why make the swap? Why reward a player who isn't even playing well in practice, even if it means punishing a player who isn't playing well in games?
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Re: Bennett to get extensive time on 2nd line

Postby Defence21 on Thu Mar 07, 2013 10:50 am

columbia wrote:
Defence21 wrote:
Henry Hank wrote:I think they'll be pretty patient with Bennett. He's already showing that he belongs in the NHL as he's putting up some points and is holding his own in puck battles. The key thing is that he's only 21 and has little pro experience. He's a legitimate prospect. It's a little different than a chump like Tangradi who is several years older, has plenty of history of failure, and worst of all showed little to no improvement over the years.

Having said that, if Bennett goes eight games without putting up anymore points they'd probably drop him down again. I don't really see that happening because he's already shown that he can take advantage of opportunities, which other guys didn't do. Bennett is following the path to sticking in the NHL the way guys like Staal, Talbot, and Kennedy did in recent years.

I agree. Bennett might not remain on Malkin's line for every shift of the rest of the season, but his AHL days are over. There's nothing wrong with using line demotions as a way to teach a young player. And, let's be honest, his couple weeks with Sutter in a defense-first role are hardly the worst thing that could happen to a young offense-first forward.

So many people believe that a scoring prospect HAS to play on a scoring line to learn the game. Wrong. In fact, I believe more can be learned playing on lower lines, where a player doesn't have a superstar center to feed him the puck. There is nothing wrong with the way Bennett has been treated since his promotion.

As for Despres and Bortuzzo, let's see here....

Despres' handling, as someone mentioned above, is strikingly similar to that of Letang. Looking at how Letang has developed into a perennial Norris Trophy candidate, I think it's safe to say his early treatment might well have been more successful than not.

Bortuzzo's handling reminds me a lotof the way Scuderi's career began. He didn't get the ice time of other similar-aged defenders early in his career, but as time went on, he proved his way into a permanent roster spot and eventually a big paycheck. Seemed like it worked for him, no?

Could it be possible that the gradual process of easing players into the NHL rather than throwing them to the wolves on a nightly basis is, gasp, a sound coaching/player development strategy and not a successful attempt at angering the fanbase? No...can't be. Bylsma's sole goal is to anger the fanbase and not to sustain a successful franchise.


Bortuzzo appears to be on the correct path, but playing every night until the end of the season is not going to prepare him to be reliable (and relatively free to rookie mistakes) in the playoffs.
One could argue that if had played every game (in Engelland's place), that perhaps things would be different....but that's not what happened and they have to go with reality now. Hopefully Eaton can succeed and - better yet - they can bring in someone with a little more grit to pair with Niskanen.

Despres is obviously 1.) a much better hockey player and 2.) well further ahead in his development path. HE needs to be in the lineup just about every night, if they are going to rely on him in the playoffs.

1. I don't think the plan is or ever was to rely on Bortuzzo in the playoffs. With Despres already in the fold, taking two rookies into the playoffs would be an ill-advised decision for the coach of a team with such high Stanley Cup expectations. I'm all about developing internal talent, but there is no reason to rush it. He'll be ready to step into a full-time role next season, at which point he can skate in the playoffs.

2. I think, at this point, Despres will begin to see his minutes increase and his scratch dwindle to little/none. He's proving himself and he's taking his benchings as learning experiences. I do think he'll be in the lineup most/all of the rest of the season and will be on the third pairing with Niskanen once Shero adds a veteran top-pairing caliber defender via trade.
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Re: Bennett to get extensive time on 2nd line

Postby columbia on Thu Mar 07, 2013 10:53 am

@Defence21 I was mainly responding for the calls for Bortuzzo to be in there more regularly. That ship has sailed for this year.....there simply isn't time to spend developing him this year (with the hope of his being a starter).
I think we both agree on that.
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Re: Bennett to get extensive time on 2nd line

Postby Gaucho on Thu Mar 07, 2013 10:55 am

Pens are a contender. Rookies need to be eased into the lineup, not forced.
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Re: Bennett to get extensive time on 2nd line

Postby shmenguin on Thu Mar 07, 2013 11:04 am

i think '08 letang is a good model for depres. put him in the lineup (playoffs too), but with a leash of a certain length. letang got scratched at some point against the wings, but they gave him a shot.
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Re: Bennett to get extensive time on 2nd line

Postby Defence21 on Thu Mar 07, 2013 12:20 pm

@columbia, I didn't take what you said as disagreement. My response was to further prove your points.

@Gaucho, especially considering this is a shortened season when every move is magnified.

@shmenguin, exactly. Despres will be given ice time as we move forward, but mistakes can't and shouldn't be accepted simply because he's young. It might seem foolish to put in a veteran who might make the same mistakes, but there's also an element of teaching with these young players that goes on when they get benched or scratched that might not happen if they continue to play.
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Re: Bennett to get extensive time on 2nd line

Postby Lt. Dish on Sat Mar 09, 2013 1:33 am

Thanks for your part in last night's third goal, BB! Nice work.

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Re: Bennett to get extensive time on 2nd line

Postby Nizzy on Sat Mar 09, 2013 2:59 am

Gaucho wrote:Pens are a contender. Rookies need to be eased into the lineup, not forced.


When you're 12-4 with a Rookie, and 3-4 without him playing, yes he needs forced. When the same defenseman is already better than at least 2 for sure, most likely 3, infront of him? Then he needs forced.

Despres needs to be in the top 6 full time, I dare even say beside Letang.
Bennett is Malkin's winger.
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Re: Bennett to get extensive time on 2nd line

Postby Beveridge on Sat Mar 09, 2013 1:19 pm

Record with him in or out is a bogus stat.

Look at Pens record when Crosby was out, or when Geno was out, or when both were out.

Being better than ones he is sitting for is a valid argument rookie or not. Records are more often than not coincidental. Now find me a hockey WAR stat, and we're on to something.


To be more clear with saying it's a bogus stat: I mean that hockey, more than any other sport, is team driven. Showing a record with/without one player is not going to tell the whole story (unless it's a goalie to some extent).
Last edited by Beveridge on Sat Mar 09, 2013 6:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Bennett to get extensive time on 2nd line

Postby pcm on Sat Mar 09, 2013 5:14 pm

Bennett needs to shoot more. Kid has only 8 shots so far.

Also, when did he switch to LW? He played RW at Denver. He shoots right... Seems like the Pens switched him to the off-wing position? Not sure why.

And didn't we switch Neal to his off-wing? We've got a lefty on the right and a righty on the left. Does Blysma have his head on backwards? (And yes I realize Neal worked just fine on RW last year, but that was more to accomodate Kunitz's boardwork on the left side, which is no longer applicable.)
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Re: Bennett to get extensive time on 2nd line

Postby pens_CT on Sat Mar 09, 2013 5:55 pm

pcm wrote:Bennett needs to shoot more. Kid has only 8 shots so far.

Also, when did he switch to LW? He played RW at Denver. He shoots right... Seems like the Pens switched him to the off-wing position? Not sure why.

And didn't we switch Neal to his off-wing? We've got a lefty on the right and a righty on the left. Does Blysma have his head on backwards? (And yes I realize Neal worked just fine on RW last year, but that was more to accomodate Kunitz's boardwork on the left side, which is no longer applicable.)

He played LW at WBS. Not sure why he was shifted from RW which he played at Denver. At WBS he had the same low number of SOG. Seems to be a pass first guy, but he has a good shot and should use it more. Maybe that will come as he gets more familiar with the NHL.
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Re: Bennett to get extensive time on 2nd line

Postby Beveridge on Sat Mar 09, 2013 6:07 pm

pcm wrote:Bennett needs to shoot more. Kid has only 8 shots so far.


I'd rather have the other 2 forwards shooting more of the time on that line.

But that's just me.
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