Pens v Flyers GDT (3/7/13)

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Re: Pens v Flyers GDT (3/7/13)

Postby Gaucho on Fri Mar 08, 2013 8:50 am

"We know they're good team offensively..."
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Re: Pens v Flyers GDT (3/7/13)

Postby Lesky on Fri Mar 08, 2013 9:51 am

The Snapshot wrote:
Henry Hank wrote:
Orlando Penguin wrote:
Henry Hank wrote:I'll wet blanket all over this. They've given up 3+ goals in eight of their last nine. There isn't a playoff team with a worse GAA in the NHL right now. Even worse, winning games like this likely just reinforces that it's OK to give up this many goals because they can just score 5 or 6 or 7, whatever it takes. We know how this ends. The 2nd seed will mean nothing when they get beat by the #7 because they're facing a team that actually can stick to a tight game plan.

Hey, it's great they came back. It's great they're winning. It's great Sid is in position to win a scoring title. Just recognize that these things will be the height of this season. There's no point in even hoping for more because they clearly are never going to kick their problems.




Sweet. Now that it's settled, I can go hibernate until October since our fate has now been decided by the high & mighty. :thumbdown: :thumbdown:


I don't care if you don't like it. A team that gives up as many goals as the Pens give up is not a serious contender. I'll enjoy things for what they are - mainly getting to see Sid play and excel - but it's a bummer to me knowing that as much talent as they have, they aren't going anywhere. Maybe if they gave any sliver of hope that they can fix their problems but they simply aren't doing it. But that doesn't it has to bum you out. I've just seen enough of the Pens in recent years to know that their regular season problems carry into the playoffs. Barring a miracle, we will watch them flame out magnificently in the playoffs against a lower seed again.


This is a joke.

They beat a rival in their own building after their goalie spotted them 3 goals minimum. Rewatch the tape and tell me that you see a single, confident save from Fleury. Most were complete adventures. If you think that a team can play defense in front of that then I don't know what to tell you.

This was a signature win. If you don't know enough to be quiet with your negative Nancy routine then I guess you don't know as much as the folks on here who fawn over your every word seem to think you do.

Do you know anything about team psychology? The bus was warming up, and I am sure you would have gotten on with Fleury. Thankfully the Pens did not.

They also played very well at home in the last game. They can bring it together and focus. The season is only half over, but by all means enjoy your time watching Sid.


Can´t wait for Henry Hanks reply! :thumb:
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Re: Pens v Flyers GDT (3/7/13)

Postby Jesse on Fri Mar 08, 2013 10:01 am

I'm part HH and part Snapshot.

On one hand, this team has proven this year that they can get into the game mentally and win games in a convincing fashion. They've also proved they can turn the puck over and completely abandon the front of the net.

But the fact that they've proved they can come back from virtually any deficit and win games in multiple ways is a big plus for me. You never want to advise a team to go down 4-1 in the first period against a rival on a regular basis, but that was a picture perfect performance from the Penguins in the final 40 minutes, especially in how they bled time off the clock in a very boring fashion and held the lead down the stretch of that game.

Hockey builds on itself game by game. I think that this win could really be a coagulating type of performance for the Penguins. Let's see how they do in Toronto on Saturday, that could be a big indicator of whether or not they've learned anything.

On the Fleury front, he's the cog that I'm least concerned about. Bad night last night. But beyond that, he's been stellar for the Penguins when he's been in net this season. The biggest thing for me is what kind of potential shot in the arm this could be for our backup.

I do, however, think HH is right to a point. I am not ready to wave the white flag on this season by any means, especially considering Shero's ability to drastically change the makeup of this team out of nowhere, but there are key focus and defensive issues that have haunted this team. If the Penguins solve them, they might be as unbeatable as Chicago down the stretch.
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Re: Pens v Flyers GDT (3/7/13)

Postby meow on Fri Mar 08, 2013 10:11 am

Froggy wrote:That's what really bugs me about Giroux... Or at least the perception of him. It's easy to be the captain when things are going well, but you are really defined by what you do when the chips are down. Like compare his "leadership" against us in the playoffs vs him taking a suspension against nj

QFT
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Re: Pens v Flyers GDT (3/7/13)

Postby PensFanInDC on Fri Mar 08, 2013 10:19 am

Jesse wrote:I'm part HH and part Snapshot.

On one hand, this team has proven this year that they can get into the game mentally and win games in a convincing fashion. They've also proved they can turn the puck over and completely abandon the front of the net.

But the fact that they've proved they can come back from virtually any deficit and win games in multiple ways is a big plus for me. You never want to advise a team to go down 4-1 in the first period against a rival on a regular basis, but that was a picture perfect performance from the Penguins in the final 40 minutes, especially in how they bled time off the clock in a very boring fashion and held the lead down the stretch of that game.

Hockey builds on itself game by game. I think that this win could really be a coagulating type of performance for the Penguins. Let's see how they do in Toronto on Saturday, that could be a big indicator of whether or not they've learned anything.

On the Fleury front, he's the cog that I'm least concerned about. Bad night last night. But beyond that, he's been stellar for the Penguins when he's been in net this season. The biggest thing for me is what kind of potential shot in the arm this could be for our backup.

I do, however, think HH is right to a point. I am not ready to wave the white flag on this season by any means, especially considering Shero's ability to drastically change the makeup of this team out of nowhere, but there are key focus and defensive issues that have haunted this team. If the Penguins solve them, they might be as unbeatable as Chicago down the stretch.


Amen.

I watch this team and think, "man...we have a good shot of getting bounced in round 1 again." If moves are made (which Shero is apt to do) then anything can happen. In Shero I trust.
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Re: Pens v Flyers GDT (3/7/13)

Postby DropEmJayBird on Fri Mar 08, 2013 10:48 am

It's a matter of effort - the second and third periods was "the penguins getting to their game".

If they play like that - they don't expose their goalie to 18 shots a period or the various bounces that come from that, they instead play in the opponents end of the ice, and they become a very very hard team to play against.

Hopefully a light bulb has gone on the last few games here in protecting 1 goal leads in the third. Personal wise you'd always like to improve, but perhaps it is simply doing better with what you have.

As for goaltending - Vokoun looked awful - just downright awful his last few games. I didn't see him challenged much at all in his two periods last night - which is exactly the way I like it. Less traffic - letting Vokoun concentrate on goaltending instead of flopping around makes him look like the goalie he is. Same with Fluery - let's play like that in front of both guys so that this stupid "OMG OUR GOALIES R THE REASON FOR EVERYTHIGN BADDD!!!" bull crap can stop.

I hate listening to Pittsburgh fans when it comes to goalies and quarterbacks.
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Re: Pens v Flyers GDT (3/7/13)

Postby The Snapshot on Fri Mar 08, 2013 11:07 am

DropEmJayBird wrote:I hate listening to Pittsburgh fans when it comes to goalies and quarterbacks.


Fleury has been good all year for the most part. I think what happened last night and this morning was more about pointing out that the 1st period was about a feeding frenzy that Fleury helped create. A game at Philly is always going to have emotion in it, and we don't need to feed the bear with soft goals and twitchy handling of every single shot. It adds energy to a team that is already amped. I know there were a lot of shots, but look at the shot chart and tell me it doesn't indicate a "he's horrible, just throw it at the net" mentality.

The reason that was pointed out is that many start talking about the Pens not being ready, Bylsma needs to be fired or the Pens season is already over. You should really be saying that you hate Piitsburgh fans when they talk about things they don't understand.
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Re: Pens v Flyers GDT (3/7/13)

Postby shmenguin on Fri Mar 08, 2013 11:16 am

fleury wasn't any good last night and was a significant factor in us falling behind 4-1. it's ok to admit that and still be a fleury fan.
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Re: Pens v Flyers GDT (3/7/13)

Postby tfrizz on Fri Mar 08, 2013 11:20 am

shmenguin wrote:fleury wasn't any good last night and was a significant factor in us falling behind 4-1. it's ok to admit that and still be a fleury fan.


:thumb:

Fleury had an off night, it happens. He'll bounce back. The bright side is the Pens won and Vokoun hopefully got a bit of a confidence boost.
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Re: Pens v Flyers GDT (3/7/13)

Postby DropEmJayBird on Fri Mar 08, 2013 11:21 am

The Snapshot wrote:
DropEmJayBird wrote:I hate listening to Pittsburgh fans when it comes to goalies and quarterbacks.


Fleury has been good all year for the most part. I think what happened last night and this morning was more about pointing out that the 1st period was about a feeding frenzy that Fleury helped create. A game at Philly is always going to have emotion in it, and we don't need to feed the bear with soft goals and twitchy handling of every single shot. It adds energy to a team that is already amped. I know there were a lot of shots, but look at the shot chart and tell me it doesn't indicate a "he's horrible, just throw it at the net" mentality.

The reason that was pointed out is that many start talking about the Pens not being ready, Bylsma needs to be fired or the Pens season is already over. You should really be saying that you hate Piitsburgh fans when they talk about things they don't understand.


Eh - I mean I think the team in general has more to do with the frenzy than the goaltender does. Fluery made some key stops in the first half of the period. That didn't stop the flyers from outskating the penguins nor did it stop James Neal from taking dumb penalties.

No key saves were made in the second period by Vokoun that would inspire the penguins to "calm down", it was simply the team deciding to skate and play hockey.

I noticed Vokoun fumble a few rebounds on the few shots he faced - the difference is Penguins easily beat the flyers to the rebounds if they didn't block the original shot outright.

If I had the chance, I'd throw the puck to the net as well - the penguins defense can't move anyone out of there, and you get the double bonus that one of them will either deflect or kick the puck into their own net. I'm sure after Vokoun's game against the Flyers in Pittsburgh, the flyers had the "throw the puck to the net" mentality ready for the 2nd and 3rd period (certainly after their game winner that night) - the problem was they had a hard time getting over the blue line. That had nothing to do with who the goalie was, and everything to do with the Penguins playing hard the entire 200 ft of ice.

I like both our goalies when NHL caliber defense is played in front of both of them, and yes "fire byslma" is just as stupid as blaming the goalie for everything happening on the ice.
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Re: Pens v Flyers GDT (3/7/13)

Postby DropEmJayBird on Fri Mar 08, 2013 11:23 am

tfrizz wrote:
shmenguin wrote:fleury wasn't any good last night and was a significant factor in us falling behind 4-1. it's ok to admit that and still be a fleury fan.


:thumb:

Fleury had an off night, it happens. He'll bounce back. The bright side is the Pens won and Vokoun hopefully got a bit of a confidence boost.


I agree - I'm not concerned about Fluery at all.

Two best things to come out of last night other than the 2 pts, was the commitment to outskate the flyers, and the hope that maybe this stops the Vokoun slide of awful games. No way do I want the pens goaltending situation to turn into what the flyers have, where the starter has to shoulder the load. Need Vokoun to play well enough to make more starts.
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Re: Pens v Flyers GDT (3/7/13)

Postby shmenguin on Fri Mar 08, 2013 11:26 am

DropEmJayBird wrote:
tfrizz wrote:
shmenguin wrote:fleury wasn't any good last night and was a significant factor in us falling behind 4-1. it's ok to admit that and still be a fleury fan.


:thumb:

Fleury had an off night, it happens. He'll bounce back. The bright side is the Pens won and Vokoun hopefully got a bit of a confidence boost.


I agree - I'm not concerned about Fluery at all.

Two best things to come out of last night other than the 2 pts, was the commitment to outskate the flyers, and the hope that maybe this stops the Vokoun slide of awful games. No way do I want the pens goaltending situation to turn into what the flyers have, where the starter has to shoulder the load. Need Vokoun to play well enough to make more starts.


i'm still quite concerned about fleury
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Re: Pens v Flyers GDT (3/7/13)

Postby The Snapshot on Fri Mar 08, 2013 11:28 am

shmenguin wrote:fleury wasn't any good last night and was a significant factor in us falling behind 4-1. it's ok to admit that and still be a fleury fan.


Thanks for making it simple. That is the message from last night, plus the fact that the Pens never quit.
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Re: Pens v Flyers GDT (3/7/13)

Postby The Snapshot on Fri Mar 08, 2013 11:31 am

DropEmJayBird wrote:I like both our goalies when NHL caliber defense is played in front of both of them, and yes "fire byslma" is just as stupid as blaming the goalie for everything happening on the ice.


Nobody blames the goalie for everything that happens on the ice. D has been shady at times this season in games. It's ok to state the goaltending stunk last night, and in the last 3-4 starts for Vokoun.
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Re: Pens v Flyers GDT (3/7/13)

Postby DropEmJayBird on Fri Mar 08, 2013 11:32 am

The Snapshot wrote:
DropEmJayBird wrote:I like both our goalies when NHL caliber defense is played in front of both of them, and yes "fire byslma" is just as stupid as blaming the goalie for everything happening on the ice.


Nobody blames the goalie for everything that happens on the ice. D has been shady at times this season in games. It's ok to state the goaltending stunk last night, and in the last 3-4 starts for Vokoun.


agree to agree then.
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Re: Pens v Flyers GDT (3/7/13)

Postby The Snapshot on Fri Mar 08, 2013 12:14 pm

DropEmJayBird wrote:
The Snapshot wrote:
DropEmJayBird wrote:I like both our goalies when NHL caliber defense is played in front of both of them, and yes "fire byslma" is just as stupid as blaming the goalie for everything happening on the ice.


Nobody blames the goalie for everything that happens on the ice. D has been shady at times this season in games. It's ok to state the goaltending stunk last night, and in the last 3-4 starts for Vokoun.


agree to agree then.


It would also be OK for some of the genius types (not you, wait....I don't mean you're not a genius) to admit that the team has bailed these goalies out on a few of these nights. Instead of "what a comeback and way to bail Fleury out I hear "they didn't isulate their laughably terrible goalie".

I was at a bar in Flyer country, and there were many, many chuckles at how easy Fluery was making things. There is such a thing as insulating your goalie by not surrendering 2-1s and 3-2s, or poinit blank chances in the slot - but when every single bouncing shot results in a goal or fat rebound you cannot devise a plan against that.

The Pens showed amazing ability, focus and controlled emotion last night - yet so few seem to care because they lost to these guys in the Playoffs last year.
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Re: Pens v Flyers GDT (3/7/13)

Postby DropEmJayBird on Fri Mar 08, 2013 12:41 pm

The team certainly bails out these goalies. Whether its scoring to overcome bounces of some guys face, or pucks bouncing off Paul Martin's leg or Nisky's stick - the offense has turned numerous games into wins.

I think Vokoun is a great example. He's never played behind this defense and on nights when they've been awful - he's looked like a slow fat out of shape beer league goalie trying to move around the net.

Vokoun's not as bad as his previous few games indicate, but playing behind this defense when it's bad is really really hard, and I think Fluery - while some may say "OMG HES AWFUL" because they don't take his play into context, more often is playing better given the circumstances compared to whomever else they may want to trade him for. Last night might have been the worst game Fluery's played this season, and that's because I think 2 of the 4 goals are on him, the other two are bad bounces that just happen.

Hopefully we get more play like the second and third period from last night, make both our goalies lives easier.
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Re: Pens v Flyers GDT (3/7/13)

Postby Lt. Dish on Fri Mar 08, 2013 1:17 pm

columbia wrote:How soon until the Flyers fans want to send HCPL on a permanent timeout? :pop:



That bandwagon has been sputtering since the end of January, but now it's a Panzer destroying all rationality and sense in its path.
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Re: Pens v Flyers GDT (3/7/13)

Postby columbia on Fri Mar 08, 2013 1:20 pm

Lt. Dish wrote:
columbia wrote:How soon until the Flyers fans want to send HCPL on a permanent timeout? :pop:



That bandwagon has been sputtering since the end of January, but now it's a Panzer destroying all rationality and sense in its path.


I listened to WIP last night and one of callers wanted to know what HCPL said after the first period, to cause the collapse. It goes to show, it's easiest to blame the coach for everything....even one that supposedly outsmarts HCDB every game.
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Re: Pens v Flyers GDT (3/7/13)

Postby Tico Rick on Fri Mar 08, 2013 1:20 pm

Coozman1 wrote:Looks like the video is gone now!


Here's a recap:

Image
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Re: Pens v Flyers GDT (3/7/13)

Postby DudeMan2766 on Fri Mar 08, 2013 1:21 pm

Lt. Dish wrote:
columbia wrote:How soon until the Flyers fans want to send HCPL on a permanent timeout? :pop:



That bandwagon has been sputtering since the end of January, but now it's a Panzer destroying all rationality and sense in its path.



Its unreal how my disdain for Laviolette has grown in 15 years. He only coached one year here, his rookie HC year, but he's one of the favorites in Wheeling franchise history. He lived in my neighborhood and was a great guy. Followed his career as he moved on up the ladder, was thrilled he won a Cup, clammored for the Pens to hire him after NYI canned him. Bu the very second he got behind that flyers bench, I've disliked him more and more. Now, I downright hate the guy. I thought for sure he would turn the Flyer mentality around. But the stink is too strong in that organization. You dont change them, they most certainly change you.
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Re: Pens v Flyers GDT (3/7/13)

Postby jwest21 on Fri Mar 08, 2013 1:23 pm

Lt. Dish wrote:
columbia wrote:How soon until the Flyers fans want to send HCPL on a permanent timeout? :pop:



That bandwagon has been sputtering since the end of January, but now it's a Panzer destroying all rationality and sense in its path.

I saw a couple "Fire laviolette, hire Ruff asap" posts already
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Re: Pens v Flyers GDT (3/7/13)

Postby Lt. Dish on Fri Mar 08, 2013 1:24 pm

columbia wrote:
Lt. Dish wrote:
columbia wrote:How soon until the Flyers fans want to send HCPL on a permanent timeout? :pop:



That bandwagon has been sputtering since the end of January, but now it's a Panzer destroying all rationality and sense in its path.


I listened to WIP last night and one of callers wanted to know what HCPL said after the first period, to cause the collapse. It goes to show, it's easiest to blame the coach for everything....even one that supposedly outsmarts HCDB every game.


columbia, you're too smart a guy for this!

You should've gone to the Flyers' HF board.
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Re: Pens v Flyers GDT (3/7/13)

Postby Lt. Dish on Fri Mar 08, 2013 1:30 pm

DudeMan2766 wrote: You dont change them, they most certainly change you.


Yes, I agree.

I know we've shared many players with them over 46 years, but I never want to see Max Talbot in a Pens sweater again.
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Re: Pens v Flyers GDT (3/7/13)

Postby wondermoose on Fri Mar 08, 2013 1:41 pm

shmenguin wrote:fleury wasn't any good last night and was a significant factor in us falling behind 4-1. it's ok to admit that and still be a fleury fan.


Against the Flyers, I don't think Fleury is going to be someone who steals us a game. He started the game well, but once the bounces starting going against him (again!) he really fell apart.
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