Official GDT: Game 25 Pittsburgh Penguins vs. Toronto - 3/9

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Re: Official GDT: Game 25 Pittsburgh Penguins vs. Toronto -

Postby Shakes on Sat Mar 09, 2013 11:24 pm

farnham16 wrote:
Shakes wrote:Dejan Kovacevic ‏@Dejan_Kovacevic
Bylsma just asked refs if he can put fourth line on ice to watch #Leafs goals in shootout.


No reason at all for the 4th line to be out like it was under 5 minutes. It is just awful coaching and you can't defend it at all.


Agreed. I'm not one to second-guess coaching usually, but this was a real head-scratcher. No reason for them to play down the stretch. It's not like they earned the ice time.
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Re: Official GDT: Game 25 Pittsburgh Penguins vs. Toronto -

Postby Kovy27 on Sat Mar 09, 2013 11:24 pm

farnham16 wrote:
MRandall25 wrote:
Kovy27 wrote:
KG wrote:
The U wrote:You CAN have it both ways.

This style of hockey is extremely fun to watch and this is a sport....and we watch for entertainment. Games like this are great. I want more regular season games like this.

I also understand that if they do this in the postseason we are out in Round 1.

Shero watches every game and has $13 million to spend. This is not our playoff roster. 3 or 4 guys will come and 3 or 4 will go. Shero didn't improve the team last deadline and it killed us. He will this year, I have faith. His job probably isn't on the line but if we flame out in RD1 it will be heading into the next season. The pressure is too great to stand pat.

Tonight was great, but yes, there are 3 or 4 dead weight forwards on the bottom 6 and an overall lack of size snd physicality. I trust Shero to fix the situation so I will continue to enjoy these up and down regular season games for now and not freak out until it really matters.


Good post. I agree Shero will try to be active. Looking forward to see what he will do with this cap space...



Honestly, I don't understand benching Vitale at this point...unless they are trying to "showcase" Jeffrey. I don't know how you can showcase Jeffrey on the 4th line though. I also think Tanner Glass is just serviceable. I'd rather have Asham or Rupp.


Gotta give Vitale a rest, given how tired he looked toward the end last year


Seriously? Vitale plays like 10 mintues a game if that.


If that's the reason, then Vitale needs to find a desk job.
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Re: Official GDT: Game 25 Pittsburgh Penguins vs. Toronto -

Postby skullman80 on Sat Mar 09, 2013 11:28 pm

Yah not buying vitale isnt playing because he needs a rest to be kept fresh.
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Re: Official GDT: Game 25 Pittsburgh Penguins vs. Toronto -

Postby farnham16 on Sat Mar 09, 2013 11:28 pm

skullman80 wrote:Yah not buying vitale isnt playing because he needs a rest to be kept fresh.


No there's no way that is the reason haha.
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Re: Official GDT: Game 25 Pittsburgh Penguins vs. Toronto -

Postby The Snapshot on Sat Mar 09, 2013 11:29 pm

Kovy27 wrote:
The Snapshot wrote:And I stand by the fact that you cannot stop all shots and when your goalie is this god-awful they are going to end with a red light. That is fact, and the out of town crews in every game (which you may not hear but I do in NJ) have ALL said that. This team is surrendering goals every game because they have gone about 10 without a solid goalie game. The PK isn't good either, but JVRs goal was an easy stop if Fleury has his stick in 1st Pee Wee camp position.

You can't judge a team's team D when the goalie leaks every night. If I allow myself to think about a nightmare in the 1st round this year I am MOST concerned about Fleury. I honestly thought Vokoun was going to offer a potential for Fleury to be hooked if he is as terrible again this year as he was against the Flyers, but he has been a mess as well.

ONE of them needs to get it together.


You are honestly blaming just Fleury for that 1st period mess in Philly?


3 Soft goals. Shots from everywhere when the Flyers realized he was a mess. Yes. The Flyers announcers were all over how terrible he was fundamentaly. You expect a push from Philly at home in the 1st. Survive the 1st is an accepted axiom for road hockey.

When your goalie spills that much blood in the water against a team like Philly.....

Look, you might be one of the "this team sucks defensively" folks. That is fine. I can tell you that you only need to look at NJ to see what happens when a goalie leaks. They have plummeted because Brodeur is gone and his replacements have given up soft goals and rebounds all night.

I thought I remembered you playing Hockey, so if I am right do you mean to tell me that a team doesn't know when their goalie is off and that they do not change their game when they do?

Goals 1, 2 and 3 tonight are all stopped by Fleury if he is playing well.

I don't want to hang Fleury. There are strecthes where he is amazing. I want him to get his game back together to the point where he makes the saves he should and stops moving all over for no reason.

The play of the night by the way was made by Sutter on a play where Fleury was COMPLETELY out of his net for no real reason, doing a snow angel on his belly. Had that play not been made, we get 0 points, and that would have been another gift from his hyper-active self.
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Re: Official GDT: Game 25 Pittsburgh Penguins vs. Toronto -

Postby Dickie Dunn on Sat Mar 09, 2013 11:31 pm

Vitale sitting because he needs a rest is as asinine as Despres sitting because the shorter schedule is tough on a young player. Where do people come up with this nonsense?
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Re: Official GDT: Game 25 Pittsburgh Penguins vs. Toronto -

Postby Kovy27 on Sat Mar 09, 2013 11:33 pm

The Snapshot wrote:
Kovy27 wrote:
The Snapshot wrote:And I stand by the fact that you cannot stop all shots and when your goalie is this god-awful they are going to end with a red light. That is fact, and the out of town crews in every game (which you may not hear but I do in NJ) have ALL said that. This team is surrendering goals every game because they have gone about 10 without a solid goalie game. The PK isn't good either, but JVRs goal was an easy stop if Fleury has his stick in 1st Pee Wee camp position.

You can't judge a team's team D when the goalie leaks every night. If I allow myself to think about a nightmare in the 1st round this year I am MOST concerned about Fleury. I honestly thought Vokoun was going to offer a potential for Fleury to be hooked if he is as terrible again this year as he was against the Flyers, but he has been a mess as well.

ONE of them needs to get it together.


You are honestly blaming just Fleury for that 1st period mess in Philly?


3 Soft goals. Shots from everywhere when the Flyers realized he was a mess. Yes. The Flyers announcers were all over how terrible he was fundamentaly. You expect a push from Philly at home in the 1st. Survive the 1st is an accepted axiom for road hockey.

When your goalie spills that much blood in the water against a team like Philly.....

Look, you might be one of the "this team sucks defensively" folks. That is fine. I can tell you that you only need to look at NJ to see what happens when a goalie leaks. They have plummeted because Brodeur is gone and his replacements have given up soft goals and rebounds all night.

I thought I remembered you playing Hockey, so if I am right do you mean to tell me that a team doesn't know when their goalie is off and that they do not change their game when they do?

Goals 1, 2 and 3 tonight are all stopped by Fleury if he is playing well.

I don't want to hang Fleury. There are strecthes where he is amazing. I want him to get his game back together to the point where he makes the saves he should and stops moving all over for no reason.

The play of the night by the way was made by Sutter on a play where Fleury was COMPLETELY out of his net for no real reason, doing a snow angel on his belly. Had that play not been made, we get 0 points, and that would have been another gift from his hyper-active self.


Philly goals: Deflected by Martin (x2), Engelland screening him (x1).

Tonight: Sutter stopped that goal because JVR ran into Fleury and then blocked him from getting back. I don't think the refs would have allowed it...imo.
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Re: Official GDT: Game 25 Pittsburgh Penguins vs. Toronto -

Postby farnham16 on Sat Mar 09, 2013 11:33 pm

The Snapshot wrote:
Kovy27 wrote:
The Snapshot wrote:And I stand by the fact that you cannot stop all shots and when your goalie is this god-awful they are going to end with a red light. That is fact, and the out of town crews in every game (which you may not hear but I do in NJ) have ALL said that. This team is surrendering goals every game because they have gone about 10 without a solid goalie game. The PK isn't good either, but JVRs goal was an easy stop if Fleury has his stick in 1st Pee Wee camp position.

You can't judge a team's team D when the goalie leaks every night. If I allow myself to think about a nightmare in the 1st round this year I am MOST concerned about Fleury. I honestly thought Vokoun was going to offer a potential for Fleury to be hooked if he is as terrible again this year as he was against the Flyers, but he has been a mess as well.

ONE of them needs to get it together.


You are honestly blaming just Fleury for that 1st period mess in Philly?


3 Soft goals. Shots from everywhere when the Flyers realized he was a mess. Yes. The Flyers announcers were all over how terrible he was fundamentaly. You expect a push from Philly at home in the 1st. Survive the 1st is an accepted axiom for road hockey.

When your goalie spills that much blood in the water against a team like Philly.....

Look, you might be one of the "this team sucks defensively" folks. That is fine. I can tell you that you only need to look at NJ to see what happens when a goalie leaks. They have plummeted because Brodeur is gone and his replacements have given up soft goals and rebounds all night.

I thought I remembered you playing Hockey, so if I am right do you mean to tell me that a team doesn't know when their goalie is off and that they do not change their game when they do?

Goals 1, 2 and 3 tonight are all stopped by Fleury if he is playing well.

I don't want to hang Fleury. There are strecthes where he is amazing. I want him to get his game back together to the point where he makes the saves he should and stops moving all over for no reason.

The play of the night by the way was made by Sutter on a play where Fleury was COMPLETELY out of his net for no real reason, doing a snow angel on his belly. Had that play not been made, we get 0 points, and that would have been another gift from his hyper-active self.


I guess I just see the game different than you do. I would blame MAF for maybe only 1 goal in the Philly game. The goals were all off of bounces, and Timmonens goal was completely on Engo. Engo was in front of the shot and all he had to do was stand still and let the puck hit him. But for some unknown reason, he moves away from shot like its a full blast from Chara. And because Engo was screening him, MAF was late to react and the puck goes in.
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Re: Official GDT: Game 25 Pittsburgh Penguins vs. Toronto -

Postby farnham16 on Sat Mar 09, 2013 11:35 pm

Dickie Dunn wrote:Vitale sitting because he needs a rest is as asinine as Despres sitting because the shorter schedule is tough on a young player. Where do people come up with this nonsense?


Its from people that love Bylsma unconditionally.
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Re: Official GDT: Game 25 Pittsburgh Penguins vs. Toronto -

Postby since1970 on Sat Mar 09, 2013 11:35 pm

.....where's the suffocating TEAM defense?? There's way too much open ice in the defensive zone, are the forwards breaking out too early, or is the defense (team) out of position, or slow in reaction or anticipation?
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Re: Official GDT: Game 25 Pittsburgh Penguins vs. Toronto -

Postby The Snapshot on Sat Mar 09, 2013 11:36 pm

GenoMachino71 wrote:
The Snapshot wrote:
farnham16 wrote:
The Snapshot wrote:
farnham16 wrote:Well, another high scoring, exciting hockey game that we pulled out. Again, more proof that is what this team is and this is how they play and win games.

Bad sign for anyone that hopes for playoff success.


I'm not trying to be a ****, but I just don't understand how a team that gives up 5 shots in the 3rd doesn't get any credit. Toronto was storming too. Fleury again gives up 2 softies at a minimum. The D played well again, and they won 3 periods on the road.

The goalies need to be a LOT better. The D cannot allow 0 shots.....


The Pens gave up a lot of scoring chances in the third period. A lot. Not all of them turned into shots on net but the Leafs were all over the Pens in the third, especially late. And the PK contines to get worse every game. That is a major problem. And the Pens don't seem to notice because Bylsma keeps sending out the exact same PKers every single time.

Look, you might not think this team has a big problem and you might not have an issue with how they play, that's fine. But you have to be honest here. It is now the norm for this team to give up at least 3 goals every single game. This isn't just some poor strech of defense. It is every single game the team gives up loads of goals. The only reason we contine to win is beause we have high level talent. And you also have to admit that the type of games the Penguins have been playing for a year now are not the types of games that are played in the postseason.

You simply cannot be this bad at keeping the puck out of your net and do anything in the playoffs.


And I stand by the fact that you cannot stop all shots and when your goalie is this god-awful they are going to end with a red light. That is fact, and the out of town crews in every game (which you may not hear but I do in NJ) have ALL said that. This team is surrendering goals every game because they have gone about 10 without a solid goalie game. The PK isn't good either, but JVRs goal was an easy stop if Fleury has his stick in 1st Pee Wee camp position.

You can't judge a team's team D when the goalie leaks every night. If I allow myself to think about a nightmare in the 1st round this year I am MOST concerned about Fleury. I honestly thought Vokoun was going to offer a potential for Fleury to be hooked if he is as terrible again this year as he was against the Flyers, but he has been a mess as well.

ONE of them needs to get it together.


and I guess it's a coincidence that Vokoun is going to have his worst season statistically BY FAR playing in this system and in front of this defense....

Vokoun's career averages vs this season....

2.56 gaa vs 3.32
.917 sv% vs .890


Vokoun has never had a goals against average of over 3 in a season.... until he came to Pittsburgh


Nice stats.

Are you seriously telling me Vokoun has been ANY good of late? Look at the goals and tell me that if he played the way he did in Florida where he built those stats that they end up in the net.

Those stats are meaningless because he REGULARLY stood on his head behind a horrific Florida team and and an outgunned Nashville team. If he faced 45 shots right now he would give up 10.
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Re: Official GDT: Game 25 Pittsburgh Penguins vs. Toronto -

Postby The Snapshot on Sat Mar 09, 2013 11:38 pm

farnham16 wrote:
The Snapshot wrote:
Kovy27 wrote:
The Snapshot wrote:And I stand by the fact that you cannot stop all shots and when your goalie is this god-awful they are going to end with a red light. That is fact, and the out of town crews in every game (which you may not hear but I do in NJ) have ALL said that. This team is surrendering goals every game because they have gone about 10 without a solid goalie game. The PK isn't good either, but JVRs goal was an easy stop if Fleury has his stick in 1st Pee Wee camp position.

You can't judge a team's team D when the goalie leaks every night. If I allow myself to think about a nightmare in the 1st round this year I am MOST concerned about Fleury. I honestly thought Vokoun was going to offer a potential for Fleury to be hooked if he is as terrible again this year as he was against the Flyers, but he has been a mess as well.

ONE of them needs to get it together.


You are honestly blaming just Fleury for that 1st period mess in Philly?


3 Soft goals. Shots from everywhere when the Flyers realized he was a mess. Yes. The Flyers announcers were all over how terrible he was fundamentaly. You expect a push from Philly at home in the 1st. Survive the 1st is an accepted axiom for road hockey.

When your goalie spills that much blood in the water against a team like Philly.....

Look, you might be one of the "this team sucks defensively" folks. That is fine. I can tell you that you only need to look at NJ to see what happens when a goalie leaks. They have plummeted because Brodeur is gone and his replacements have given up soft goals and rebounds all night.

I thought I remembered you playing Hockey, so if I am right do you mean to tell me that a team doesn't know when their goalie is off and that they do not change their game when they do?

Goals 1, 2 and 3 tonight are all stopped by Fleury if he is playing well.

I don't want to hang Fleury. There are strecthes where he is amazing. I want him to get his game back together to the point where he makes the saves he should and stops moving all over for no reason.

The play of the night by the way was made by Sutter on a play where Fleury was COMPLETELY out of his net for no real reason, doing a snow angel on his belly. Had that play not been made, we get 0 points, and that would have been another gift from his hyper-active self.


I guess I just see the game different than you do. I would blame MAF for maybe only 1 goal in the Philly game. The goals were all off of bounces, and Timmonens goal was completely on Engo. Engo was in front of the shot and all he had to do was stand still and let the puck hit him. But for some unknown reason, he moves away from shot like its a full blast from Chara. And because Engo was screening him, MAF was late to react and the puck goes in.


That Timmonen goal was all Fleury. Jesus. Seriously? He squirted it right through his own armpit when it hit him in the chest. Not a SINGLE person in Flyerland where I watched the game was laughing at Engelland.
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Re: Official GDT: Game 25 Pittsburgh Penguins vs. Toronto -

Postby farnham16 on Sat Mar 09, 2013 11:41 pm

So we are basing who to blame a goal on by what Flyer people are saying? Are you serious dude come on. Of course Flyer fans are gonna jump all over MAF.

Go back and look at the freaking goal. Engo was RIGHT in front of Timmonens line to the net. If he would have stayed right where he was, the weak shot from Timmonen would have hit him and nothing happens. Instead, Engo moves away like a pansy for some reason. And he was also screening MAF, that is why he was late to react.

Completely on Engo. As was Rinaldos goal.
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Re: Official GDT: Game 25 Pittsburgh Penguins vs. Toronto -

Postby farnham16 on Sat Mar 09, 2013 11:47 pm



You get a great slow mo look at it.
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Re: Official GDT: Game 25 Pittsburgh Penguins vs. Toronto -

Postby PghSkins on Sat Mar 09, 2013 11:49 pm

farnham16 wrote:

You get a great slow mo look at it.


Understand this
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Re: Official GDT: Game 25 Pittsburgh Penguins vs. Toronto -

Postby The Snapshot on Sat Mar 09, 2013 11:50 pm

farnham16 wrote:So we are basing who to blame a goal on by what Flyer people are saying? Are you serious dude come on. Of course Flyer fans are gonna jump all over MAF.

Go back and look at the freaking goal. Engo was RIGHT in front of Timmonens line to the net. If he would have stayed right where he was, the weak shot from Timmonen would have hit him and nothing happens. Instead, Engo moves away like a pansy for some reason. And he was also screening MAF, that is why he was late to react.

Completely on Engo. As was Rinaldos goal.


No idea what you are talking about. Rinaldo had the puck kicked right onto his stick on a terrible rebound of a soft shot by Fleury. That was a gift from Fleury. Watch Fleury after each goal. He knows I am right.

Wow. I wish you were an owner so I could play goal for your team. BOTH goals were not even ECHL caliber goaltending. Why has EVERY former NHL goaltender I have heard talk about Fleury saying exactly what I am saying? They say the same thing over and over. Too fidgety, works himself out of position, terrible rebound control, iffy glovehand, fragile mentally.
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Re: Official GDT: Game 25 Pittsburgh Penguins vs. Toronto -

Postby The Snapshot on Sat Mar 09, 2013 11:50 pm

farnham16 wrote:

You get a great slow mo look at it.


You mean at Fleury squirtiing it through his armpit?
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Re: Official GDT: Game 25 Pittsburgh Penguins vs. Toronto -

Postby Shakes on Sat Mar 09, 2013 11:51 pm

Kathryn Tappen.
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Re: Official GDT: Game 25 Pittsburgh Penguins vs. Toronto -

Postby sniper on Sat Mar 09, 2013 11:53 pm

Fleury hasn't been good the last two games. He got better as the game went on tonight though. To say Fleury is the reason they give up so many goals every game though is flat out wrong. Before these past two games he's given up very few soft goals. The forwards have not been back checking at all the majority of the season. I thought they did that pretty well today and the last two periods against the Flyers.

Right now the PK is awful. The only person who ever wins a faceoff is Crosby. There is absolutely no pressure, heck most of the time they don't even move. They just stand around. Sutter looks completely lost out there. Adams and Glass have zero speed and there always seems to be a guy wide open right in front of the net. It needs both new personnel and a new plan.

If Bylsma can get them to back check like they have the last 5 periods and Fleury plays the way he has most of the year I think you will see the goals against go down. 21 shots against in regulation in a road game against Toronto is pretty good. PK killed them today and they still won.
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Re: Official GDT: Game 25 Pittsburgh Penguins vs. Toronto -

Postby farnham16 on Sat Mar 09, 2013 11:53 pm

The Snapshot wrote:
farnham16 wrote:So we are basing who to blame a goal on by what Flyer people are saying? Are you serious dude come on. Of course Flyer fans are gonna jump all over MAF.

Go back and look at the freaking goal. Engo was RIGHT in front of Timmonens line to the net. If he would have stayed right where he was, the weak shot from Timmonen would have hit him and nothing happens. Instead, Engo moves away like a pansy for some reason. And he was also screening MAF, that is why he was late to react.

Completely on Engo. As was Rinaldos goal.


No idea what you are talking about. Rinaldo had the puck kicked right onto his stick on a terrible rebound of a soft shot by Fleury. That was a gift from Fleury. Watch Fleury after each goal. He knows I am right.

Wow. I wish you were an owner so I could play goal for your team. BOTH goals were not even ECHL caliber goaltending. Why has EVERY former NHL goaltender I have heard talk about Fleury saying exactly what I am saying? They say the same thing over and over. Too fidgety, works himself out of position, terrible rebound control, iffy glovehand, fragile mentally.


So, no problem with Engo just letting Rinaldo get position on him right in front of the net for an easy tap in goal? Our big bad physical dman?
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Re: Official GDT: Game 25 Pittsburgh Penguins vs. Toronto -

Postby pens2005 on Sat Mar 09, 2013 11:54 pm

Is there a reason why comcast continues to just broadcast one game in HD a night on center ice?
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Re: Official GDT: Game 25 Pittsburgh Penguins vs. Toronto -

Postby farnham16 on Sat Mar 09, 2013 11:55 pm

The Snapshot wrote:
farnham16 wrote:

You get a great slow mo look at it.


You mean at Fleury squirtiing it through his armpit?


No, the part where it clearly shows Engo moving at the last second when if he just would have stood still he would have blocked the shot. Also the part where it shows MAF moving around before the shot trying to get a view of it.
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Re: Official GDT: Game 25 Pittsburgh Penguins vs. Toronto -

Postby farnham16 on Sat Mar 09, 2013 11:58 pm



Not great goaltending by any means, but Engo horrible in front of his net.
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Re: Official GDT: Game 25 Pittsburgh Penguins vs. Toronto -

Postby Shakes on Sat Mar 09, 2013 11:58 pm

canaan wrote:Understand that?
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Re: Official GDT: Game 25 Pittsburgh Penguins vs. Toronto -

Postby NJ5934 on Sun Mar 10, 2013 12:02 am

since1970 wrote:.....where's the suffocating TEAM defense?? There's way too much open ice in the defensive zone, are the forwards breaking out too early, or is the defense (team) out of position, or slow in reaction or anticipation?


You have to wonder what they guys are really being directed to do. Our blueline gives up more space than any other team I've watched this season. It's back, back, back......play zone. No one is challenged.

I don't know what the answer is. Bring in Ott and Regehr and they might end up being huge disappointments because, honestly, I just don't see anything aggressive or physical in the Penguin "system." This is not the same "wear these b@&ches down" team that won the cup. Blame Kennedy, Cooke and Adams all you want but they may be playing exactly as they are being coached to.

In any case, I still think this is a team built for the regular season. Once the physicality level is brought up (and we've seen games this season), this team takes hit after hit and crumbles. Toronto was able to swing the game around tonight once they started hitting. Skill won out in the long run, but it was one game and we took a significant casualty in the process. We won't hold up in a seven game series. Boston, Philly, New York, even Ottawa and New Jersey are far more physical teams.

That being said, I also think DB's job is safe and imagine we will be complaining about this again this time next season.
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