What do the Penguins need?

Forum for Pittsburgh Penguins-related messages.

Moderators: Three Stars, dagny, pfim, netwolf

Re: What do the Penguins need?

Postby It'sagreatdayforhockey! on Mon Mar 11, 2013 11:08 pm

Hugo Stiglitz wrote:I'm not trying to sound antagonistic, but anyone who thinks offense isn't an issue is not looking beyond the stats. If the Penguins do not get a lot of PP opportunities or if the PP starts to just not click anymore the Pens are in a heap of trouble. While I have faith Malkin(once he returns) will find his scoring again, right now the Pens are a 1 line team. We are not hard enough to play at ES and that will catch up with them come playoff time. You can't win a cup by simply having a stellar PP unit. Having a stellar PP is merely a an attribute that is important to have to be a cup contender.

After the first line, the scoring drops off SIGNIFICANTLY. Getting someone like Iginla or Setoguchi is of paramount importance. Getting a player like that fixes another weakness which is making the third line better. If the Pens acquire Iginla, who ever falls to the third line will make that line much better. Dupuis has emerged as true top-six winger and there's obviously no need for Sid to upgrade, but getting an Iginla-type moves Dupuis down to the third and gives us a pretty lethal third line. If the Penguins were to acquire a Setoguchi or Ott, those are two players who could play on the third line and make it lethal.



You can keep trying to make that claim, but it's just simply not true. This team is a top 5 even strength offense currently. And even if the PP drops off, the Malkin line doesn't improve and the 1st line becomes as terrible as you think the 2nd line is currently - this team is still a top 10 ES offense. The need for a top 6 forward is so far down the list it isn't worth the insane prices that are likely to be required.
It'sagreatdayforhockey!
AHL'er
AHL'er
 
Posts: 2,712
Joined: Sat Mar 08, 2008 11:16 pm
Location: Washington DC

Re: What do the Penguins need?

Postby Digitalgypsy66 on Mon Mar 11, 2013 11:31 pm

Rupp doesn't have the speed for the Penguins "game," and lost his job in Rangers for the same reason. Loved the guy, but I think that ship has sailed.
Digitalgypsy66
AHL Hall of Famer
AHL Hall of Famer
 
Posts: 9,054
Joined: Sat Aug 12, 2006 11:21 pm
Location: Roger Roger.

Re: What do the Penguins need?

Postby BurghersAndDogsSports on Mon Mar 11, 2013 11:48 pm

It'sagreatdayforhockey! wrote:
Hugo Stiglitz wrote:I'm not trying to sound antagonistic, but anyone who thinks offense isn't an issue is not looking beyond the stats. If the Penguins do not get a lot of PP opportunities or if the PP starts to just not click anymore the Pens are in a heap of trouble. While I have faith Malkin(once he returns) will find his scoring again, right now the Pens are a 1 line team. We are not hard enough to play at ES and that will catch up with them come playoff time. You can't win a cup by simply having a stellar PP unit. Having a stellar PP is merely a an attribute that is important to have to be a cup contender.

After the first line, the scoring drops off SIGNIFICANTLY. Getting someone like Iginla or Setoguchi is of paramount importance. Getting a player like that fixes another weakness which is making the third line better. If the Pens acquire Iginla, who ever falls to the third line will make that line much better. Dupuis has emerged as true top-six winger and there's obviously no need for Sid to upgrade, but getting an Iginla-type moves Dupuis down to the third and gives us a pretty lethal third line. If the Penguins were to acquire a Setoguchi or Ott, those are two players who could play on the third line and make it lethal.



You can keep trying to make that claim, but it's just simply not true. This team is a top 5 even strength offense currently. And even if the PP drops off, the Malkin line doesn't improve and the 1st line becomes as terrible as you think the 2nd line is currently - this team is still a top 10 ES offense. The need for a top 6 forward is so far down the list it isn't worth the insane prices that are likely to be required.


Well, I think his claim is true depending on which angle you take. He is saying they are not hard to play against, you are using simply goals scored for stats. We lead the league right now with ES goals but have given up over 50 ES goals as well. That usually doesn't work long term especially in the playoffs, and even more especially when combined with a below average PK.

And our 2nd line has not done squat way too often at ES and disappears for very long stretches, same as our 3rd and our 4th. Neal has been a PP demon which is nice but we need more production in other ways beyond skill goals, and that is the point most people are arguing. I just don't think that is far fetched. Very Limited production from bottom lines, too many ES and PP goals against, limited puck possession and cycle stopping is what people see and are afraid of come playoff time.

When people say we need a top 6 winger I think they are speaking more in the 2009 Kunitz version and everyone assumes they mean Zach Parise. I think everyone agrees we can score, we need a top six winger who like Kunitz can play the top line on a cup winning with ONE goal total in all 4 series and still be considered a key cog to the run for what skill set he brought every night.

Quite simply we need dirt, but most of the dirty forwards we pick up or have had the past 3 years fail to perform their roles effectively. But we score enough, and after the last 3 playoffs fans who watched and paid attention are rightfully scared that isn't what it takes to hoist the cup, hence the need for a top 6 winger.
BurghersAndDogsSports
ECHL'er
ECHL'er
 
Posts: 2,065
Joined: Fri Feb 03, 2012 10:42 am
Location: Pittsburgh, Pa

Re: What do the Penguins need?

Postby Great58 on Tue Mar 12, 2013 6:18 am

I wouldn't trade for a top 6 winger at this point. I agree we need dirt and grit, but I'd target line 3 or 4 (or both) instead.

First, I wouldn't touch the Crosby/Kunitz/Dupuis line with a 10 foot pole. When the puck is consistently in the back of the opposition net, they're clearly difficult to play against. There's nothing wrong with this line that is worth giving away prospects and up and coming stars for a rental player.

I've liked enough of what I've seen from Bennett to keep him paired with Geno and Neal. Neal's not as nasty as Kunitz, but he will throw the body in the playoffs. What the line needs more than anything is a healthy Malkin who's not turning the puck over at the blue line. I'm not sure a grittier replacement for Beau would result in fewer Geno mind cramps that result in penalties or turnovers, the line's true nemesis.

And I don't buy that moving either Bennett or Dupuis to line 3 makes us any better. Maybe a better puck possession line. But certainly not tougher.
Great58
ECHL'er
ECHL'er
 
Posts: 1,582
Joined: Tue Mar 15, 2011 8:56 pm
Location: On the blue line

Re: What do the Penguins need?

Postby DelPen on Tue Mar 12, 2013 7:42 am

Bennett has the potential to carry the puck in the zone. Once he gets more confidence he won't look for Malkin to do it if he's even doing that now. He's certainly a good fit in that line.

Upgrade the 3rd line wing and shift Kennedy or Cooke down to the 4th and get Adams or Glass out of the lineup. There aren't many pending UFA's this on teams that will be out of the playoffs by the deadline nor are better than Cooke and Kennedy. But Kobasew, Torres, maybe Nystrom should be better than Adams and Glass. But Glass should be better than Glass right now.

It's a shame, Kosopolous actually would have been a good fit on the 4th line, oh well.

I'd also like to see Regher if possible, depending how much the Sabres want to rebuild, Bortuzzo and a first? Overpayment maybe but Regher is legit top 4 and a penalty killer could put us over the top. I'd feel much better with Nisky, Eaton and Despres as our bottom 3 in April.
DelPen
NHL Third Liner
NHL Third Liner
 
Posts: 33,335
Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2006 9:27 am
Location: Lake Wylie, SC

Re: What do the Penguins need?

Postby ville5 on Tue Mar 12, 2013 9:20 am

moar sock monkeys!!
Lt. Dish could use a couple too, if you have extra. she's causing messes all over the place.
ville5
AHL'er
AHL'er
 
Posts: 2,695
Joined: Mon Jan 30, 2006 2:17 pm
Location: getting body slammed by kelly kelly

Re: What do the Penguins need?

Postby Lt. Dish on Tue Mar 12, 2013 9:39 am

ville5 wrote:moar sock monkeys!!
Lt. Dish could use a couple too, if you have extra. she's causing messes all over the place.


What? :wink:

Image
Lt. Dish
AHL Hall of Famer
AHL Hall of Famer
 
Posts: 9,695
Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2012 10:07 pm
Location: TOOTBLAN

Re: What do the Penguins need?

Postby NashvilleCat on Tue Mar 12, 2013 9:57 am

BurghersAndDogsSports wrote:
It'sagreatdayforhockey! wrote:
Hugo Stiglitz wrote:I'm not trying to sound antagonistic, but anyone who thinks offense isn't an issue is not looking beyond the stats. If the Penguins do not get a lot of PP opportunities or if the PP starts to just not click anymore the Pens are in a heap of trouble. While I have faith Malkin(once he returns) will find his scoring again, right now the Pens are a 1 line team. We are not hard enough to play at ES and that will catch up with them come playoff time. You can't win a cup by simply having a stellar PP unit. Having a stellar PP is merely a an attribute that is important to have to be a cup contender.

After the first line, the scoring drops off SIGNIFICANTLY. Getting someone like Iginla or Setoguchi is of paramount importance. Getting a player like that fixes another weakness which is making the third line better. If the Pens acquire Iginla, who ever falls to the third line will make that line much better. Dupuis has emerged as true top-six winger and there's obviously no need for Sid to upgrade, but getting an Iginla-type moves Dupuis down to the third and gives us a pretty lethal third line. If the Penguins were to acquire a Setoguchi or Ott, those are two players who could play on the third line and make it lethal.



You can keep trying to make that claim, but it's just simply not true. This team is a top 5 even strength offense currently. And even if the PP drops off, the Malkin line doesn't improve and the 1st line becomes as terrible as you think the 2nd line is currently - this team is still a top 10 ES offense. The need for a top 6 forward is so far down the list it isn't worth the insane prices that are likely to be required.


Well, I think his claim is true depending on which angle you take. He is saying they are not hard to play against, you are using simply goals scored for stats. We lead the league right now with ES goals but have given up over 50 ES goals as well. That usually doesn't work long term especially in the playoffs, and even more especially when combined with a below average PK.

And our 2nd line has not done squat way too often at ES and disappears for very long stretches, same as our 3rd and our 4th. Neal has been a PP demon which is nice but we need more production in other ways beyond skill goals, and that is the point most people are arguing. I just don't think that is far fetched. Very Limited production from bottom lines, too many ES and PP goals against, limited puck possession and cycle stopping is what people see and are afraid of come playoff time.

When people say we need a top 6 winger I think they are speaking more in the 2009 Kunitz version and everyone assumes they mean Zach Parise. I think everyone agrees we can score, we need a top six winger who like Kunitz can play the top line on a cup winning with ONE goal total in all 4 series and still be considered a key cog to the run for what skill set he brought every night.

Quite simply we need dirt, but most of the dirty forwards we pick up or have had the past 3 years fail to perform their roles effectively. But we score enough, and after the last 3 playoffs fans who watched and paid attention are rightfully scared that isn't what it takes to hoist the cup, hence the need for a top 6 winger.

The first line is fine at even strength.
Geno's line is playing it about even but would be expensive to fix and not needed with Bennett coming along.
The third and fourth lines are the cause of our even strength deficiencies and would be the cheapest and most likely fix. Solving that puzzle and adding some defensive help could also help fix the PK which is one of our sore spots this year and in last year's playoffs.

There is no need to spend a fortune for a top-six winger when our most glaring weaknesses can be addressed by picking players from a larger, less expensive pool of talent.
NashvilleCat
NHL Healthy Scratch
NHL Healthy Scratch
 
Posts: 11,748
Joined: Sat May 24, 2008 8:18 pm
Location: 4.5 hours south of Josh Harrison's hometown.

Re: What do the Penguins need?

Postby penny lane on Tue Mar 12, 2013 10:29 am

Image

not 1 eyed defensemen ;), but grit. Grit to compete when it is all falling apart, grit when you are leading 3 zip on a power play. Grit to block out rick nash, m lucic, others who park themselves in front of the net.
penny lane
NHL Third Liner
NHL Third Liner
 
Posts: 28,492
Joined: Mon Jan 30, 2006 6:29 pm
Location: Summer sunshine heals!

Re: What do the Penguins need?

Postby Hugo Stiglitz on Tue Mar 12, 2013 10:22 pm

BurghersAndDogsSports wrote:Well, I think his claim is true depending on which angle you take. He is saying they are not hard to play against, you are using simply goals scored for stats. We lead the league right now with ES goals but have given up over 50 ES goals as well. That usually doesn't work long term especially in the playoffs, and even more especially when combined with a below average PK.

And our 2nd line has not done squat way too often at ES and disappears for very long stretches, same as our 3rd and our 4th. Neal has been a PP demon which is nice but we need more production in other ways beyond skill goals, and that is the point most people are arguing. I just don't think that is far fetched. Very Limited production from bottom lines, too many ES and PP goals against, limited puck possession and cycle stopping is what people see and are afraid of come playoff time.

When people say we need a top 6 winger I think they are speaking more in the 2009 Kunitz version and everyone assumes they mean Zach Parise. I think everyone agrees we can score, we need a top six winger who like Kunitz can play the top line on a cup winning with ONE goal total in all 4 series and still be considered a key cog to the run for what skill set he brought every night.

Quite simply we need dirt, but most of the dirty forwards we pick up or have had the past 3 years fail to perform their roles effectively. But we score enough, and after the last 3 playoffs fans who watched and paid attention are rightfully scared that isn't what it takes to hoist the cup, hence the need for a top 6 winger.


I'm just trying to also point out...again...that I'm not FOR breaking up the first line. Why fix something that isn't broken? That being said, I don't think there's just one way to fix this issue. The Penguins need to be better at sustaining pressure across all lines. Once Malkin returns, I'm confident it's just a matter of time before that line does that. If the Penguins can get someone like Setoguchi to play the third, it puts us in a good situation. Whoever would fall off the third would improve the fourth.

However, if the Pens have the ability to add someone like Iginla without losing a key roster player or seriously depleting our prospect pool you take it and run! What do you not do? Trade Despres another roster player and a 1st rounder for that type of player. But again, I'm all for going after a stellar third line winger.

I'm also NOT saying the Pens can get away with improving offensively without improving defensively. While I do believe that a stronger offense improves your defense, the Penguins are still missing their crease-clearing dman. But yes, I believe the previous poster is not looking beyond the stats.
Hugo Stiglitz
AHL'er
AHL'er
 
Posts: 4,651
Joined: Fri Oct 01, 2010 12:36 am

Re: What do the Penguins need?

Postby Gaucho on Tue Mar 12, 2013 10:26 pm

penny lane wrote:
not 1 eyed defensemen ;), but grit.


:lol:
Gaucho
NHL Third Liner
NHL Third Liner
 
Posts: 40,746
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2006 10:22 am
Location: The Onyx Club

Re: What do the Penguins need?

Postby murphydump55 on Tue Mar 12, 2013 10:50 pm

Andy Strickland ‏@andystrickland
You'd never guess Douglas Murray is from Sweden...might be permanently banned if he played in Elite League. Guy is a monster #sjsharks

Please Ray
murphydump55
AHL'er
AHL'er
 
Posts: 3,394
Joined: Thu Jan 17, 2013 2:06 pm
Location: Thunder Bay

Re: What do the Penguins need?

Postby Rocco on Tue Mar 12, 2013 10:55 pm

Get Iginla. Plan parade.
Rocco
NHL Third Liner
NHL Third Liner
 
Posts: 35,506
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2006 8:34 am
Location: Manor Farm

Re: What do the Penguins need?

Postby DelPen on Wed Mar 13, 2013 8:38 am

Penalty killers and depth which can be the same thing.

Kennedy needs to go, he's not bad but he's the only tradeable asset that won't hurt us by leaving. Bortuzzo too could be used to bring in some help. Glass and Jeffrey could also be moved if they are wanted.

Start with Robyn Regehr on defense, Legit top 4 pairing and has the size we need on defense. This also allows Nisky and Eaton/Despres to be the 3rd pairing which is also great. Bortuzzo and a 1st?

Get Matt Hendricks from the Caps. He's a pending UFA so he could be moved. 4th line depth, good on faceoffs and also plays the PK. He's a lefty which will help on the 4th line since Vitale and Adams are both righties. Straight up for Jeffrey?

Round it out with Eric Nystrom from Dallas. Sutter needs his shooter on the LW, slide cooke over to the RW. Nystrom is their #2 forward on the PK, again, we need that help. Kennedy and a 3rd?

Kunitz-Crosby-Dupuis
Bennett-Malkin-Neal
Nystrom-Sutter-Cooke
Hendricks-Vitale-Adams

Glass as extra forward, if Malkin or Sid get hurt you can slide Sutter up and Hendricks or Vitale slide up to the 3rd and that's better than Jeffrey.

Martin-Orpik
Letang-Regehr
Nisky-Despres
Eaton
Last edited by DelPen on Wed Mar 13, 2013 9:10 am, edited 1 time in total.
DelPen
NHL Third Liner
NHL Third Liner
 
Posts: 33,335
Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2006 9:27 am
Location: Lake Wylie, SC

Re: What do the Penguins need?

Postby Idoit40fans on Wed Mar 13, 2013 8:48 am

I could live with those moves being made.
Idoit40fans
NHL Third Liner
NHL Third Liner
 
Posts: 51,710
Joined: Sat Dec 09, 2006 2:42 pm
Location: No Reading, No Research, Just Strong Opinions

Previous

Return to Pittsburgh Penguins

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 7 guests

e-mail