Pick-a-Pope #1 at Vatican City

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Papal prognostications - Pick your Pope

Poll ended at Mon Mar 18, 2013 9:31 pm

Joao Braz de Aviz (Brazil)
2
5%
Angelo Bagnasco (Italy)
3
8%
Timothy Dolan (USA)
2
5%
Dominik Duka (Czech Republic)
2
5%
Peter Erdő (Hungary)
1
3%
Marc Ouellet (Canada)
3
8%
Laurent Monsengwo Pasinya (Democratic Republic of Congo)
1
3%
Malcolm Ranjith (Sri Lanka)
0
No votes
Gianfranco Ravasi (Italy)
5
14%
Leonardo Sandri (Argentina)
5
14%
Odilo Pedro Scherer (Brazil)
1
3%
Christoph Schoenborn (Austria)
0
No votes
Angelo Scola (Italy)
1
3%
Luis Tagle (Philippines)
0
No votes
Peter Turkson (Ghana)
4
11%
Other
7
19%
 
Total votes : 37

Re: Pick-a-Pope #1 at Vatican City

Postby eddysnake on Thu Mar 14, 2013 9:35 am

Idoit40fans wrote:
Tico Rick wrote:
skullman80 wrote:
Tico Rick wrote:
Idoit40fans wrote:Does the changing of the pope actually affect any normal person?


Do you mean materially or spiritually?


Either I guess.

I'm not Catholic, nor overly religious in any way, but like Idoit I just don't see how this would affect any normal person on their day to day lives.


I'm not sure if by "normal" you mean non-religious (which I think, globally speaking, is not accurate), but I think if you were to ask Lech Walesa or any leaders of the Solidarity movement in Poland what effect the election of Pope John Paul had on their country, they would have a lot to say on the matter.


By normal, I mean an every day person not acting as a member of the clergy. Any catholic that either does or does not attend mass every Sunday.


I'd say sure, my mother-in-law didn't like the last german pope (shifty eyes). She's in a much better spirits now.
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Re: Pick-a-Pope #1 at Vatican City

Postby Tico Rick on Thu Mar 14, 2013 9:57 am

Idoit40fans wrote:
Tico Rick wrote:
skullman80 wrote:
Tico Rick wrote:
Idoit40fans wrote:Does the changing of the pope actually affect any normal person?


Do you mean materially or spiritually?


Either I guess.

I'm not Catholic, nor overly religious in any way, but like Idoit I just don't see how this would affect any normal person on their day to day lives.


I'm not sure if by "normal" you mean non-religious (which I think, globally speaking, is not accurate), but I think if you were to ask Lech Walesa or any leaders of the Solidarity movement in Poland what effect the election of Pope John Paul had on their country, they would have a lot to say on the matter.


By normal, I mean an every day person not acting as a member of the clergy. Any catholic that either does or does not attend mass every Sunday.


I'm not Catholic, but again, I think the people of Poland would have a lot to say about the impact the election of John Paul had on their country. I know several Catholics who are excited about the new Pope, so the choice does seem to make a difference to Catholics.
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Re: Pick-a-Pope #1 at Vatican City

Postby Idoit40fans on Thu Mar 14, 2013 10:08 am

I know people react to it, I just don't think it will impact anyone that I have ever met in any measurable way.
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Re: Pick-a-Pope #1 at Vatican City

Postby Tico Rick on Thu Mar 14, 2013 10:13 am

What is a "measurable" impact? Popes don't raise or lower your taxes, but a Pope may help someone spiritually. If that can't be quantifiably measured, is it not important?
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Re: Pick-a-Pope #1 at Vatican City

Postby count2infinity on Thu Mar 14, 2013 10:13 am

does the election of a president impact anyone in a measurable way? not immediately, but eventually, sure.
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Re: Pick-a-Pope #1 at Vatican City

Postby npv708 on Thu Mar 14, 2013 10:29 am

The selection of a new Pope could have a pretty large impact in far more ways than spiritually. The Pope is more than the spiritual leaders, he is also the political leader of the Catholic Church, which in the past 4 years has taken a larger role in American politics.

The Catholic Church lobby has increased significantly in that time with the desire to fight ACA. The Bishops Conference of the US basically became the Pope's on-the-ground group in the US and you see political movements, like a Bishop being appointed to keep the Nuns in the US "in-line" aka less Social Justice-y stuff and more restrictive policies stuff. I'm not saying it will be a change, but I'm hoping with Pope Fancis's supposed focus on Social Justice, that the Nuns in the US, which really do amazing work and do it with far less attention and scandals, will be recognized instead of reprimanded for their work.
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Re: Pick-a-Pope #1 at Vatican City

Postby Tico Rick on Thu Mar 14, 2013 10:39 am

True, npv, though the original question seemed to imply that the Pope didn't really impact normal people if his only impact were spiritual (which in my mind is not an insignificant impact). Much more significant than this Pope's potential impact in the U.S. is his potential impact in Latin America. Even lukewarm support of liberation theology could have a powerful effect on many people in L.A.
Last edited by Tico Rick on Thu Mar 14, 2013 10:41 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Pick-a-Pope #1 at Vatican City

Postby Idoit40fans on Thu Mar 14, 2013 10:39 am

Tico Rick wrote:What is a "measurable" impact? Popes don't raise or lower your taxes, but a Pope may help someone spiritually. If that can't be quantifiably measured, is it not important?


How is he helping them? Are they ever going to meet him. Is he going to change something in the church that affects them? If someone half a world away putting on a different robe changes their life...thats my problem with organized religion.

If the catholic church is actually affecting political agendas somewhere and a new pope will change that, well thats why I asked the question. I don't care about or follow the catholic church, but i'm curious as to why so many people care about the new pope.
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Re: Pick-a-Pope #1 at Vatican City

Postby Tico Rick on Thu Mar 14, 2013 10:51 am

Idoit40fans wrote:
Tico Rick wrote:What is a "measurable" impact? Popes don't raise or lower your taxes, but a Pope may help someone spiritually. If that can't be quantifiably measured, is it not important?


How is he helping them? Are they ever going to meet him. Is he going to change something in the church that affects them? If someone half a world away putting on a different robe changes their life...thats my problem with organized religion.


Well lot's of people are helped by their beliefs in Jesus, Buddha, Mohammad, Marx, Adam Smith, etc., even though they haven't met them. But if you are looking for something that can be quantified, then, yeah, maybe organized religion is not for you.
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Re: Pick-a-Pope #1 at Vatican City

Postby Idoit40fans on Thu Mar 14, 2013 10:56 am

Tico Rick wrote:
Idoit40fans wrote:
Tico Rick wrote:What is a "measurable" impact? Popes don't raise or lower your taxes, but a Pope may help someone spiritually. If that can't be quantifiably measured, is it not important?


How is he helping them? Are they ever going to meet him. Is he going to change something in the church that affects them? If someone half a world away putting on a different robe changes their life...thats my problem with organized religion.


Well lot's of people are helped by their beliefs in Jesus, Buddha, Mohammad, Marx, Adam Smith, etc., even though they haven't met them. But if you are looking for something that can be quantified, then, yeah, maybe organized religion is not for you.


I can buy someone believing in a higher power. The pope is not that. There is still a disconnect in this argument about the spirituality. They don't even pretend that the pope is chosen by God. He's an elected official, how does he affect anyone spiritually any more than that person's local pastor does(actually how does he even approach the local pastor's level of impact)? I'm not arguing about whether my beliefs are correct or not.
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Re: Pick-a-Pope #1 at Vatican City

Postby Tico Rick on Thu Mar 14, 2013 11:05 am

Again, I'm not a Catholic, so I don't claim to be an expert on Catholic doctrine, but I think Catholics believe that there is divine intervention in the selection of Pope. The Pope is considered infallible in matters of religion, so he is more than just an elected official.
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Re: Pick-a-Pope #1 at Vatican City

Postby PensFanInDC on Thu Mar 14, 2013 11:07 am

Idoit40fans wrote:I can buy someone believing in a higher power. The pope is not that. There is still a disconnect in this argument about the spirituality. They don't even pretend that the pope is chosen by God. He's an elected official, how does he affect anyone spiritually any more than that person's local pastor does(actually how does he even approach the local pastor's level of impact)? I'm not arguing about whether my beliefs are correct or not.


Taking your comment at it's very base I agree. He has no effect on anyone's spiritual life. But those who believe in God and the Holy Spirit see things differently. We see people as tools God can and does use to do His work via the Holy Spirit. It's important that our spiritual leaders (our pastors, priests, popes, etc.) are all solidly grounded and mature in their faith. So in that way he does have an impact on Catholics at least. And as with you, I am not arguing about whether my beliefs are correct or not.
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Re: Pick-a-Pope #1 at Vatican City

Postby PensFanInDC on Thu Mar 14, 2013 11:10 am

Tico Rick wrote:Again, I'm not a Catholic, so I don't claim to be an expert on Catholic doctrine, but I think Catholics believe that there is divine intervention in the selection of Pope. The Pope is considered infallible in matters of religion, so he is more than just an elected official.


Yes. There is prayer before convening and before voting. Followers of Christ should seek God's counsel before making big decisions, like voting for a new pope.
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Re: Pick-a-Pope #1 at Vatican City

Postby Idoit40fans on Thu Mar 14, 2013 11:14 am

I guess its a leap I can't make because of my lack of faith, but under this system it seems like God would be bending to the choices of men. That does not make sense to me. I'm not trying to be difficult, I just really don't understand it, and thus the political structure within the Catholic Church is something that is interesting to me. . I feel like someone who is strong in their beliefs rather than practicing out of habit would be practicing the same way regardless of who the figurehead was. I understand having the structure within the Catholic Church, but it seems to me that individual congregations could operating pretty independently within a framework set by the Church. I feel like members of said congregations would be impacted far more by the head of the local church rather than by the figurehead of the religion as a whole.

EDIT: I guess that last post kind of explains it.
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Re: Pick-a-Pope #1 at Vatican City

Postby PensFanInDC on Thu Mar 14, 2013 11:20 am

Yeah, I'm not catholic so it's tough for me to understand as well.
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Re: Pick-a-Pope #1 at Vatican City

Postby count2infinity on Thu Mar 14, 2013 11:26 am

Idoit40fans wrote:I guess its a leap I can't make because of my lack of faith, but under this system it seems like God would be bending to the choices of men. That does not make sense to me. I'm not trying to be difficult, I just really don't understand it, and thus the political structure within the Catholic Church is something that is interesting to me. . I feel like someone who is strong in their beliefs rather than practicing out of habit would be practicing the same way regardless of who the figurehead was. I understand having the structure within the Catholic Church, but it seems to me that individual congregations could operating pretty independently within a framework set by the Church. I feel like members of said congregations would be impacted far more by the head of the local church rather than by the figurehead of the religion as a whole.

EDIT: I guess that last post kind of explains it.


I was raised as a catholic, so I have some sort of idea of what's going on here. The Bible... written by men right? But it's the word of God. How? God spoke through them and into their writing. The Pope... elected by men right? But God lead them in to that vote. The hand of God has selected the Pope THROUGH the cardinals. It was the will of God to elect this guy as Pope. Now I agree with you. I would think it'd be much more the will of God if all the cardinals sat around in the chapel, and someone tossed a feather from the ceiling and whoever it landed on was the new Pope, but that's just the way it works.
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Re: Pick-a-Pope #1 at Vatican City

Postby shafnutz05 on Thu Mar 14, 2013 8:25 pm

Image
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Re: Pick-a-Pope #1 at Vatican City

Postby columbia on Thu Mar 14, 2013 8:26 pm

And on the 9th day, God invented smart phones.
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Re: Pick-a-Pope #1 at Vatican City

Postby SolidSnake on Thu Mar 14, 2013 8:28 pm

Thats awesome
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Re: Pick-a-Pope #1 at Vatican City

Postby penny lane on Tue Mar 19, 2013 9:05 am

http://www.catholicherald.co.uk/news/20 ... UhPOIHSneg

Hoping against hope! Today too, amid so much darkness, we need to see the light of hope and to be men and women who bring hope to others. To protect creation, to protect every man and every woman, to look upon them with tenderness and love, is to open up a horizon of hope; it is to let a shaft of light break through the heavy clouds; it is to bring the warmth of hope!
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Re: Pick-a-Pope #1 at Vatican City

Postby eddysnake on Tue Mar 19, 2013 11:47 am

maybe its because he's still new, but I am finding what Francis has to say really interesting.
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Re: Pick-a-Pope #1 at Vatican City

Postby PensFanInDC on Tue Mar 19, 2013 11:57 am

He sounds very un-catholic
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Re: Pick-a-Pope #1 at Vatican City

Postby count2infinity on Tue Mar 19, 2013 12:01 pm

what does that even mean?
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Re: Pick-a-Pope #1 at Vatican City

Postby PensFanInDC on Tue Mar 19, 2013 12:07 pm

What I've noticed is that catholicism is very introverted. It's not as welcoming of new members as other Christian denominations. There are lots of rules and regulations about who can be/is saved and how salvation is received. There is very little evangelism if any at all in the catholic faith outside of foreign missionaries.

This Pope seems to be very open to making Catholicism more open to people and wanting to focus more on spreading the Word to everyone.

It probably would have been better to say that he sounds very un-catholic in his evangelical views. No offense was meant.
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Re: Pick-a-Pope #1 at Vatican City

Postby MRandall25 on Tue Mar 19, 2013 12:10 pm

PensFanInDC wrote:What I've noticed is that catholicism is very introverted. It's not as welcoming of new members as other Christian denominations. There are lots of rules and regulations about who can be/is saved and how salvation is received. There is very little evangelism if any at all in the catholic faith outside of foreign missionaries.

This Pope seems to be very open to making Catholicism more open to people and wanting to focus more on spreading the Word to everyone.

It probably would have been better to say that he sounds very un-catholic in his evangelical views. No offense was meant.


That's not always the case. I've heard evangelism preached at many masses. It's just that no one wants to go out and actually do it.
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