Game 28 vs Leafs - Thoughts from the Morning After

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Re: Game 28 vs Leafs - Thoughts from the Morning After

Postby Eismann on Fri Mar 15, 2013 10:45 am

Image
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Re: Game 28 vs Leafs - Thoughts from the Morning After

Postby shmenguin on Fri Mar 15, 2013 10:47 am

I love a good Caruso meme, but eesh. That's a dud.
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Re: Game 28 vs Leafs - Thoughts from the Morning After

Postby Shakes on Fri Mar 15, 2013 10:48 am

slappybrown wrote:
Shakes wrote:
Image


Pass should have been further away from the net so that he can one-time on the forehand. 2 out 10, would not view again.


Well, you just viewed it again, so :fist:
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Re: Game 28 vs Leafs - Thoughts from the Morning After

Postby Eismann on Fri Mar 15, 2013 10:52 am

shmenguin wrote:I love a good Caruso meme, but eesh. That's a dud.


Image
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Re: Game 28 vs Leafs - Thoughts from the Morning After

Postby Pitt87 on Fri Mar 15, 2013 10:59 am

Idoit40fans wrote:
Pitt87 wrote:
thepittman wrote:and we manage to bash Kennedy after another good game. Good job guys


Good is relative. I think he's gotten better over the last 3-4 games but I still don't see him out there producing as he has in the past.

We absolutely need a 40-50 point guy and a 20-25 goal guy on the 3rd line to be successful, and both guys can't be Sutter.


What? I need the third line to chip in a total of maybe a point a game, maintain a forecheck and play solid defense.


A point a game is 82 goals out of the 3rd line. What wold you expect the individual outputs to be on that basis?
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Re: Game 28 vs Leafs - Thoughts from the Morning After

Postby Idoit40fans on Fri Mar 15, 2013 11:01 am

Pitt87 wrote:
Idoit40fans wrote:
Pitt87 wrote:
thepittman wrote:and we manage to bash Kennedy after another good game. Good job guys


Good is relative. I think he's gotten better over the last 3-4 games but I still don't see him out there producing as he has in the past.

We absolutely need a 40-50 point guy and a 20-25 goal guy on the 3rd line to be successful, and both guys can't be Sutter.


What? I need the third line to chip in a total of maybe a point a game, maintain a forecheck and play solid defense.


A point a game is 82 goals out of the 3rd line. What wold you expect the individual outputs to be on that basis?


10 goals, 20 assists
10 goals, 15 assists
7 goals, 20 assists
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Re: Game 28 vs Leafs - Thoughts from the Morning After

Postby Pitt87 on Fri Mar 15, 2013 11:04 am

Froggy wrote:If you are expecting 25 goals and 50 points out of Kennedy, then the problem isn't with Kennedy


Pretty deep inference there. I think Sutter has the ability to put up 40+ points, but he would need a 20 goal scorer to do it. TK has the ability to score 20, but has only done it once.

Again, they can't be the same guy, because we had that guy once, and they are expensive 3rd liners:

Spoiler:
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Re: Game 28 vs Leafs - Thoughts from the Morning After

Postby Froggy on Fri Mar 15, 2013 11:22 am

tfrizz wrote:
Froggy wrote:If you are expecting 25 goals and 50 points out of Kennedy, then the problem isn't with Kennedy


Yeah, those are pretty lofty expectations. However...

Career GP: 354
Career Goals: 73
Career Assists: 89

82-Game Pace: 17 goals, 21 assists


It's more than reasonable to be disappointed in the lack of production from Kennedy this season. 3 goals and 2 assists in 28 games just doesn't cut it, especially when you see that Cooke has 5 goals + 7 assists and Sutter has 8 goals + 5 assists. That's a rather substantial cap from 13 and 12 points to 5 points for guys who play (mostly) on the same line.


I don't think anyone has argued that Kennedy was having a good offensive season. But if he puts up 3 or 4 more goals and like 8 or 9 assists from here on out, he'd be right on pace for his career averages, or at least close enough. Either way, it's pretty clear that he's gone after this year unless he goes absolutely nuts down the stretch and in the playoffs.
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Re: Game 28 vs Leafs - Thoughts from the Morning After

Postby SoupOrSam on Fri Mar 15, 2013 12:21 pm

Third line getting that kind of production... man, that's some good old maui wowie.

Expecting it is like more of an out-of-body and universe experience.
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Re: Game 28 vs Leafs - Thoughts from the Morning After

Postby Pitt87 on Fri Mar 15, 2013 12:29 pm

Froggy wrote:
tfrizz wrote:
Froggy wrote:If you are expecting 25 goals and 50 points out of Kennedy, then the problem isn't with Kennedy


Yeah, those are pretty lofty expectations. However...

Career GP: 354
Career Goals: 73
Career Assists: 89

82-Game Pace: 17 goals, 21 assists


It's more than reasonable to be disappointed in the lack of production from Kennedy this season. 3 goals and 2 assists in 28 games just doesn't cut it, especially when you see that Cooke has 5 goals + 7 assists and Sutter has 8 goals + 5 assists. That's a rather substantial cap from 13 and 12 points to 5 points for guys who play (mostly) on the same line.


I don't think anyone has argued that Kennedy was having a good offensive season. But if he puts up 3 or 4 more goals and like 8 or 9 assists from here on out, he'd be right on pace for his career averages, or at least close enough. Either way, it's pretty clear that he's gone after this year unless he goes absolutely nuts down the stretch and in the playoffs.


If you think that his career average is what he needs to produce, then why would you think he's 'gone' if he doesn't perform above average?
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Re: Game 28 vs Leafs - Thoughts from the Morning After

Postby RxBandit66 on Fri Mar 15, 2013 12:33 pm

The 3rd line should be scoring a goal every other game. In other words, in an 82 game season, 40 goals would be an acceptable total for the line. So the three guys should have 12-15 goals each. Sutter and Cooke could easily get more than that, and Kennedy typically would. But he is not scoring at all this season.

Also, is anyone else concerned with the play of Brooks Orpik? I think he played one of his worst games last night, and he's been inconsistent at best the past two seasons. He does not hit much like he used to, and leaves players wide open in front of the net way too often. I like Mikey's suggestion of getting Smid and bumping Orpik and Niskanen to the 3rd pairing. I'd leave Letang-Despres alone for like the next 10 years.
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Re: Game 28 vs Leafs - Thoughts from the Morning After

Postby Pitt87 on Fri Mar 15, 2013 12:42 pm

Idoit40fans wrote:
Pitt87 wrote:
Idoit40fans wrote:
Pitt87 wrote:
thepittman wrote:and we manage to bash Kennedy after another good game. Good job guys


Good is relative. I think he's gotten better over the last 3-4 games but I still don't see him out there producing as he has in the past.

We absolutely need a 40-50 point guy and a 20-25 goal guy on the 3rd line to be successful, and both guys can't be Sutter.


What? I need the third line to chip in a total of maybe a point a game, maintain a forecheck and play solid defense.


A point a game is 82 goals out of the 3rd line. What wold you expect the individual outputs to be on that basis?


10 goals, 20 assists
10 goals, 15 assists
7 goals, 20 assists


Nearly statistically impossible without scoing from your defense or all these guys getting some PP time. You'd have long stretches of zero points in that scenario.
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Re: Game 28 vs Leafs - Thoughts from the Morning After

Postby RisslingsMissingTeeth on Fri Mar 15, 2013 12:51 pm

RxBandit66 wrote:Also, is anyone else concerned with the play of Brooks Orpik? I think he played one of his worst games last night, and he's been inconsistent at best the past two seasons. He does not hit much like he used to, and leaves players wide open in front of the net way too often.


Funny that you say this in that I actually remarked out loud last night about just how poor Brooks has looked lately. There is a part of me that wants to think that he is injured and can't do the basics right now but he is making so many mistakes that you can't help but get a little concerned.

Only to the biased eye could someone say that he looked better than Engo last night. Midseason funk?
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Re: Game 28 vs Leafs - Thoughts from the Morning After

Postby thepittman on Fri Mar 15, 2013 12:55 pm

RisslingsMissingTeeth wrote:
RxBandit66 wrote:Also, is anyone else concerned with the play of Brooks Orpik? I think he played one of his worst games last night, and he's been inconsistent at best the past two seasons. He does not hit much like he used to, and leaves players wide open in front of the net way too often.


Funny that you say this in that I actually remarked out loud last night about just how poor Brooks has looked lately. There is a part of me that wants to think that he is injured and can't do the basics right now but he is making so many mistakes that you can't help but get a little concerned.

Only to the biased eye could someone say that he looked better than Engo last night. Midseason funk?

I thought engelland had a really good game last night
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Re: Game 28 vs Leafs - Thoughts from the Morning After

Postby Froggy on Fri Mar 15, 2013 1:06 pm

Pitt87 wrote:
Froggy wrote:
tfrizz wrote:
Froggy wrote:If you are expecting 25 goals and 50 points out of Kennedy, then the problem isn't with Kennedy


Yeah, those are pretty lofty expectations. However...

Career GP: 354
Career Goals: 73
Career Assists: 89

82-Game Pace: 17 goals, 21 assists


It's more than reasonable to be disappointed in the lack of production from Kennedy this season. 3 goals and 2 assists in 28 games just doesn't cut it, especially when you see that Cooke has 5 goals + 7 assists and Sutter has 8 goals + 5 assists. That's a rather substantial cap from 13 and 12 points to 5 points for guys who play (mostly) on the same line.


I don't think anyone has argued that Kennedy was having a good offensive season. But if he puts up 3 or 4 more goals and like 8 or 9 assists from here on out, he'd be right on pace for his career averages, or at least close enough. Either way, it's pretty clear that he's gone after this year unless he goes absolutely nuts down the stretch and in the playoffs.


If you think that his career average is what he needs to produce, then why would you think he's 'gone' if he doesn't perform above average?


It doesn't seem like there is a place for him going forward on this roster. simple as that. He'll get picked up somewhere, and he'll have a nice little career. but it's generally not great to have your statistically worst year by a large margin in the last year of your contract.

is someone actually accusing ME of having unreasonable criticism of kennedy? :lol:
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Re: Game 28 vs Leafs - Thoughts from the Morning After

Postby Idoit40fans on Fri Mar 15, 2013 1:12 pm

Pitt87 wrote:
Idoit40fans wrote:10 goals, 20 assists
10 goals, 15 assists
7 goals, 20 assists


Nearly statistically impossible without scoing from your defense or all these guys getting some PP time. You'd have long stretches of zero points in that scenario.


What? Those are pretty low expectations offensively.
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Re: Game 28 vs Leafs - Thoughts from the Morning After

Postby thepittman on Fri Mar 15, 2013 1:12 pm

I swear that some of the forum doesn't watch the games and just toes the line for blog and radio host diatribes.
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Re: Game 28 vs Leafs - Thoughts from the Morning After

Postby shoeshine boy on Fri Mar 15, 2013 1:50 pm

Pascal Dupuis - not bad for a throw-in
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Re: Game 28 vs Leafs - Thoughts from the Morning After

Postby RxBandit66 on Fri Mar 15, 2013 2:05 pm

Idoit40fans wrote:
Pitt87 wrote:
Idoit40fans wrote:10 goals, 20 assists
10 goals, 15 assists
7 goals, 20 assists


Nearly statistically impossible without scoing from your defense or all these guys getting some PP time. You'd have long stretches of zero points in that scenario.


What? Those are pretty low expectations offensively.


They are for sure. I'm sticking to my assertion that the third line should score a goal every other game. So over an 82 game season, this should be acceptable:

15-20-35
16-19-35
14-21-35

And these are very close to the averages for TK, Cooke, and Sutter over the past three years. Only Kennedy is not producing this season, so he should be replaced.
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Re: Game 28 vs Leafs - Thoughts from the Morning After

Postby meecrofilm on Fri Mar 15, 2013 2:08 pm

RisslingsMissingTeeth wrote:
RxBandit66 wrote:Also, is anyone else concerned with the play of Brooks Orpik? I think he played one of his worst games last night, and he's been inconsistent at best the past two seasons. He does not hit much like he used to, and leaves players wide open in front of the net way too often.


Funny that you say this in that I actually remarked out loud last night about just how poor Brooks has looked lately. There is a part of me that wants to think that he is injured and can't do the basics right now but he is making so many mistakes that you can't help but get a little concerned.

Only to the biased eye could someone say that he looked better than Engo last night. Midseason funk?


Any potential injury would have nothing to do with him giving Kessel a 10-foot gap before the Leafs' first goal.

His gap control is awful and his clearing attempts + coverage are not much better.
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Re: Game 28 vs Leafs - Thoughts from the Morning After

Postby shmenguin on Fri Mar 15, 2013 2:16 pm

cooke scored 1 ES goal assisted from either sutter or TK - and that was a set faceoff play. sutter's only scored 2 ES goals assisted by either player. i can't tell from a quick lookup, but i'd be willing to bet the vast majority of either player's production has occurred either on special teams or when put in the top 6. so it's not really like they're producing on the 3rd line and kennedy isn't. every component of that line is an offensive failure when those 3 are put together. even though i think kennedy is on his way out, that doesn't really make me believe that our 3rd line scoring will just improve by default. there's a bigger issue there.
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Re: Game 28 vs Leafs - Thoughts from the Morning After

Postby pugilist13 on Fri Mar 15, 2013 2:20 pm

thepittman wrote:I swear that some of the forum doesn't watch the games and just toes the line for blog and radio host diatribes.

Or troll LGP and shake their heads in agreement with the experts.
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Re: Game 28 vs Leafs - Thoughts from the Morning After

Postby Pitt87 on Fri Mar 15, 2013 2:21 pm

Froggy wrote:
Pitt87 wrote:
Froggy wrote:
tfrizz wrote:
Froggy wrote:If you are expecting 25 goals and 50 points out of Kennedy, then the problem isn't with Kennedy


Yeah, those are pretty lofty expectations. However...

Career GP: 354
Career Goals: 73
Career Assists: 89

82-Game Pace: 17 goals, 21 assists


It's more than reasonable to be disappointed in the lack of production from Kennedy this season. 3 goals and 2 assists in 28 games just doesn't cut it, especially when you see that Cooke has 5 goals + 7 assists and Sutter has 8 goals + 5 assists. That's a rather substantial cap from 13 and 12 points to 5 points for guys who play (mostly) on the same line.


I don't think anyone has argued that Kennedy was having a good offensive season. But if he puts up 3 or 4 more goals and like 8 or 9 assists from here on out, he'd be right on pace for his career averages, or at least close enough. Either way, it's pretty clear that he's gone after this year unless he goes absolutely nuts down the stretch and in the playoffs.


If you think that his career average is what he needs to produce, then why would you think he's 'gone' if he doesn't perform above average?


It doesn't seem like there is a place for him going forward on this roster. simple as that. He'll get picked up somewhere, and he'll have a nice little career. but it's generally not great to have your statistically worst year by a large margin in the last year of your contract.

is someone actually accusing ME of having unreasonable criticism of kennedy? :lol:


I'm not even being critical of TK specifically-- I think he's doing just what he was re-signed to do -- but I'd argue that most of Sutter & Cooke's points came playing with James Neal either with Malkin or in his absence. Easier to produce points with a goal scorer... no chemistry on the standard 3rd line.
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Re: Game 28 vs Leafs - Thoughts from the Morning After

Postby Penspal on Fri Mar 15, 2013 2:23 pm

thepittman wrote:and we manage to bash Kennedy after another good game. Good job guys


I do not consider my comment as a Kennedy bash per se, but simply that there are no forwards available to play right now should someone need to sit (for illness, injury or other).

No one else notice that over the last 3-4 games, Nisky is stepping up for at least one big hit?
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Re: Game 28 vs Leafs - Thoughts from the Morning After

Postby penmyst on Fri Mar 15, 2013 2:26 pm

Is this the day-after Toronto thread, or the Tyler Kennedy thread?
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