Smizik ponders who is most popular - Pens vs Steelers

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Re: Smizik ponders who is most popular - Pens vs Steelers

Postby nocera on Fri Mar 15, 2013 4:52 pm

Ossa wrote:
Bathgate wrote:There is one aspect of this discussion that has not been brought up: Race.

Black athletes more or less dominate football, so naturally many blacks are intensely interested in pro football and the Steelers. So are many whites too, of course. But, when it comes to hockey, it is largely ignored by blacks, who make up something like 9% of the regional population.

How would the popularity between the two teams stack up among whites only? It would be closer obviously.

Do the Pens need to do a better job of marketing their brand to blacks, such as by acquiring a black player who can actually play (i.e., not an enforcer like Georges Laraque who wouldn’t enforce anyway)?


I think the bigger issue is income, not necessarily race.

As for introducing more black players to the team, the Thrashers tried it and they moved to Winnipeg.



These posts makes me uncomfortable.
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Re: Smizik ponders who is most popular - Pens vs Steelers

Postby Pucks_and_Pols on Fri Mar 15, 2013 5:42 pm

nocera wrote:
Ossa wrote:
Bathgate wrote:There is one aspect of this discussion that has not been brought up: Race.

Black athletes more or less dominate football, so naturally many blacks are intensely interested in pro football and the Steelers. So are many whites too, of course. But, when it comes to hockey, it is largely ignored by blacks, who make up something like 9% of the regional population.

How would the popularity between the two teams stack up among whites only? It would be closer obviously.

Do the Pens need to do a better job of marketing their brand to blacks, such as by acquiring a black player who can actually play (i.e., not an enforcer like Georges Laraque who wouldn’t enforce anyway)?


I think the bigger issue is income, not necessarily race.

As for introducing more black players to the team, the Thrashers tried it and they moved to Winnipeg.



These posts makes me uncomfortable.


Like it or not, comfortable or not, race is a big elephant in the room when it comes to NHL fans, especially for future generations.
You can rightfully argue that income has more to do with the demographics than race does, but the fact remains that hockey is a sport primarily played by, and watched by, white people. This doesn't make the sport racist at all, its is just the reality of what challenges lie ahead in growing the sport. This is a country that is becoming more and more racially diverse every day, and institutions, such as sports leagues, that are viewed by only a certain set of people are going to have to make sensible adjustments to account for that change. I don't think the answer is for teams to force more black players into the current league, The key could be to put more focus on making the game more accesible to lower income and a racially diverse youth base to help future generations grow up with the game of hockey the same way they do with other sports.
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Re: Smizik ponders who is most popular - Pens vs Steelers

Postby nocera on Fri Mar 15, 2013 8:28 pm

Talking about race doesn't make me uncomfortable. Somebody referring to a race as "blacks" does.
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Re: Smizik ponders who is most popular - Pens vs Steelers

Postby Ossa on Fri Mar 15, 2013 8:30 pm

nocera wrote:Talking about race doesn't make me uncomfortable. Somebody referring to a race as "blacks" does.


I wasn't referring to race as "black", I was responding to the person's post.
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Re: Smizik ponders who is most popular - Pens vs Steelers

Postby nocera on Fri Mar 15, 2013 8:34 pm

Ossa wrote:
nocera wrote:Talking about race doesn't make me uncomfortable. Somebody referring to a race as "blacks" does.


I wasn't referring to race as "black", I was responding to the person's post.


I stand corrected.
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Re: Smizik ponders who is most popular - Pens vs Steelers

Postby pressure=9Pa on Fri Mar 15, 2013 8:34 pm

I was going to comment about the national following of the Steelers/NFL versus the local following of the Pens. Here in Indiana, the 25 and under crowd is ~100% Colts, the 25-45 crowd is about 75% Colts, and the 45+ crowd (who were adults when the Colts moved from Baltimore) is largely split with the Colts, Browns, Bears, Steelers, and Packers having local followings. (The best thing to ever happen to the Colts was having Cleveland without a team for a few years, and those being the years Manning arrived.) I was thinking that I probably know more Steeler fans than I do NHL fans of any team.

I'm guessing there are other cities with this trend. Those that grew up watching the NFL in the 70's will have Steeler connections, but their sons/daughters might not continue the fandom. I would think that nationally, the Penguins fan base is probably steady while the Steelers would be rapidly regressing.
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Re: Smizik ponders who is most popular - Pens vs Steelers

Postby shafnutz05 on Fri Mar 15, 2013 8:42 pm

nocera wrote:Talking about race doesn't make me uncomfortable. Somebody referring to a race as "blacks" does.


Eh, I don't really think that is an offensive term. There are a lot of other actual offensive/racist things to worry about.
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Re: Smizik ponders who is most popular - Pens vs Steelers

Postby columbia on Fri Mar 15, 2013 8:45 pm

Hockey is white should become the new water is wet.
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Re: Smizik ponders who is most popular - Pens vs Steelers

Postby shafnutz05 on Fri Mar 15, 2013 8:49 pm

And yeah, from what I understand, hockey is one of the most obscenely expensive and inaccessible sports for a child to get involved with in America, so the lack of accessibility to urban families (black and white) isn't surprising.

I'll be the first to admit that I like that hockey is the one sport where you don't have the SWAGGGGGG young money, dancing routine and other crap. Baseball is like that as well, to a lesser extent. The reason for that is apparent, and I'm not even going to deny it. That being said, I enjoy seeing black hockey players excel (a la Evander Kane, Subban, etc). And I am pretty convinced that even if the NHL was 40% black, you still wouldn't have that urban swag crap. Ironically, despite the fact it is more accessible to well-off families at the youth level, the NHL strikes me as much more blue-collar than the other major sports. I don't think you'd be pulling from the same group of people that say....go on to become NFL wide receivers.

The NHL definitely needs to be cognizant of changing demographics, especially in the United States. We need the black stars of the game that we have now to be ambassadors to that community, and I hope it's successful.
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Re: Smizik ponders who is most popular - Pens vs Steelers

Postby columbia on Fri Mar 15, 2013 8:52 pm

I don't know....TK seems young money ready.
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Re: Smizik ponders who is most popular - Pens vs Steelers

Postby Froggy on Fri Mar 15, 2013 8:53 pm

also, spoiler alert, but black people are totally ok with being referred to as "black people".
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Re: Smizik ponders who is most popular - Pens vs Steelers

Postby Ossa on Fri Mar 15, 2013 9:20 pm

Froggy wrote:also, spoiler alert, but black people are totally ok with being referred to as "black people".


I've found that saying African American is more offensive because they think you are trying to be "politically correct" when you say that and they look at you funny.
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Re: Smizik ponders who is most popular - Pens vs Steelers

Postby nocera on Fri Mar 15, 2013 9:21 pm

Froggy wrote:also, spoiler alert, but black people are totally ok with being referred to as "black people".


Black people is fine. "Blacks" is offensive.
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Re: Smizik ponders who is most popular - Pens vs Steelers

Postby shafnutz05 on Fri Mar 15, 2013 9:28 pm

nocera wrote:
Froggy wrote:also, spoiler alert, but black people are totally ok with being referred to as "black people".


Black people is fine. "Blacks" is offensive.


lol, seriously? Who told you that? I've never heard of anyone saying that "blacks", as in the phrase, "blacks in the United States" is an offensive term.
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Re: Smizik ponders who is most popular - Pens vs Steelers

Postby nocera on Fri Mar 15, 2013 9:30 pm

It's foolish for anyone to think that the Pens are anywhere close to the Steelers in popularity. Hockey is a niche sport and has a niche fanbase. Pittsburgh's niche fanbase just happens to be larger than other cities due to their track record and star power.
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Re: Smizik ponders who is most popular - Pens vs Steelers

Postby Froggy on Fri Mar 15, 2013 9:31 pm

people that say "african american" immediately out themselves as uncomfortable around black people
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Re: Smizik ponders who is most popular - Pens vs Steelers

Postby nocera on Fri Mar 15, 2013 9:32 pm

I immediately regret starting this debate. Go Stillers.
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Re: Smizik ponders who is most popular - Pens vs Steelers

Postby columbia on Fri Mar 15, 2013 9:32 pm

I usually put on a Vanilla Ice record to bridge the cultural gap.
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Re: Smizik ponders who is most popular - Pens vs Steelers

Postby shafnutz05 on Fri Mar 15, 2013 9:33 pm

columbia wrote:I usually put on a Vanilla Ice record to bridge the cultural gap.


I like to show off my collection of Clarence Thomas opinions
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Re: Smizik ponders who is most popular - Pens vs Steelers

Postby Ossa on Fri Mar 15, 2013 9:34 pm

nocera wrote:It's foolish for anyone to think that the Pens are anywhere close to the Steelers in popularity. Hockey is a niche sport and has a niche fanbase. Pittsburgh's niche fanbase just happens to be larger than other cities due to their track record and star power.


I wouldn't refer to hockey as a "niche" sport. I'd call it more of a cultish sport. Hockey has a lot of rabid fans who watch their team, and only their team. There are a number of NHL teams that have better TV ratings than the NBA or the MLB team in their market. And to say that it is foolish to think the Pens are anywhere close to the Steelers in popularity is also foolish. There are a number of demographics that the Pens do better with than the Steelers.
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Re: Smizik ponders who is most popular - Pens vs Steelers

Postby nocera on Fri Mar 15, 2013 9:41 pm

Ossa wrote:
nocera wrote:It's foolish for anyone to think that the Pens are anywhere close to the Steelers in popularity. Hockey is a niche sport and has a niche fanbase. Pittsburgh's niche fanbase just happens to be larger than other cities due to their track record and star power.


I wouldn't refer to hockey as a "niche" sport. I'd call it more of a cultish sport. Hockey has a lot of rabid fans who watch their team, and only their team. There are a number of NHL teams that have better TV ratings than the NBA or the MLB team in their market. And to say that it is foolish to think the Pens are anywhere close to the Steelers in popularity is also foolish. There are a number of demographics that the Pens do better with than the Steelers.


I don't have the TV ratings, but I'd be willing to bet they're not very close. Even still, I always thought that it's silly to compare the popularity of the teams. Pens fans used to have quite the inferiority complex. That seems to be fading, though
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Re: Smizik ponders who is most popular - Pens vs Steelers

Postby Ossa on Fri Mar 15, 2013 9:43 pm

nocera wrote:
Ossa wrote:
nocera wrote:It's foolish for anyone to think that the Pens are anywhere close to the Steelers in popularity. Hockey is a niche sport and has a niche fanbase. Pittsburgh's niche fanbase just happens to be larger than other cities due to their track record and star power.


I wouldn't refer to hockey as a "niche" sport. I'd call it more of a cultish sport. Hockey has a lot of rabid fans who watch their team, and only their team. There are a number of NHL teams that have better TV ratings than the NBA or the MLB team in their market. And to say that it is foolish to think the Pens are anywhere close to the Steelers in popularity is also foolish. There are a number of demographics that the Pens do better with than the Steelers.


I don't have the TV ratings, but I'd be willing to bet they're not very close. Even still, I always thought that it's silly to compare the popularity of the teams. Pens fans used to have quite the inferiority complex. That seems to be fading, though


Well you are correct they aren't close. But as mentioned earlier it is unfair to compare a 81 game season to a 16 game season.
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Re: Smizik ponders who is most popular - Pens vs Steelers

Postby nocera on Fri Mar 15, 2013 9:47 pm

Ossa wrote:
nocera wrote:
Ossa wrote:
nocera wrote:It's foolish for anyone to think that the Pens are anywhere close to the Steelers in popularity. Hockey is a niche sport and has a niche fanbase. Pittsburgh's niche fanbase just happens to be larger than other cities due to their track record and star power.


I wouldn't refer to hockey as a "niche" sport. I'd call it more of a cultish sport. Hockey has a lot of rabid fans who watch their team, and only their team. There are a number of NHL teams that have better TV ratings than the NBA or the MLB team in their market. And to say that it is foolish to think the Pens are anywhere close to the Steelers in popularity is also foolish. There are a number of demographics that the Pens do better with than the Steelers.


I don't have the TV ratings, but I'd be willing to bet they're not very close. Even still, I always thought that it's silly to compare the popularity of the teams. Pens fans used to have quite the inferiority complex. That seems to be fading, though


Well you are correct they aren't close. But as mentioned earlier it is unfair to compare a 81 game season to a 16 game season.


True. So what would the real test be? Would it be fair to compare game 7 in the SCF to a Steelers playoff game? Not "the game" but any playoff game?
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Re: Smizik ponders who is most popular - Pens vs Steelers

Postby shmenguin on Sat Mar 16, 2013 10:35 am

shafnutz05 wrote:
nocera wrote:
Froggy wrote:also, spoiler alert, but black people are totally ok with being referred to as "black people".


Black people is fine. "Blacks" is offensive.


lol, seriously? Who told you that? I've never heard of anyone saying that "blacks", as in the phrase, "blacks in the United States" is an offensive term.


There's a difference between saying "blacks" and "black people". It might not mean anything to you, but there's a real distinction between the 2 terms.
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Re: Smizik ponders who is most popular - Pens vs Steelers

Postby Rylan on Sat Mar 16, 2013 11:19 am

Yup. "Blacks" is totally considered derogatory
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