Game 28 vs Leafs - Thoughts from the Morning After

[Rylan]

Is this the day-after Toronto thread, or the Tyler Kennedy thread?

Yes.

[Idoit40fans]

Yes.

[Froggy]

Every thread eventually turns into a Tyler Kennedy thread

[Pitt87]

Pascal Dupuis - not bad for a throw-in

[RxBandit66]

I just want to know when Brooks Orpik forgot how to play hockey, because somewhere during the last few seasons that seems to be what's happened. The mistakes he's making can't be the result of injury. They are the stupid mental mistake variety.

His decline would be less troubling if he wasn't in his 30's. But at 32 he should still have a lot of good hockey in him. Last night, his mistake led in large part to the one goal the leafs got, but his dumb penalties and clumsy handling of the stick/puck could have led to more goals against.

[Idoit40fans]

I don't really feel that was Orpik's fault. or Kunitz'. It was a bad line change, so the blame was on someone who wasn't even really in that play. Either someone leaving the ice or someone jumping on.

[MRandall25]

But Orpik was on the ice, so it was his fault.

Same with every goal scored when Paul Martin was on last year.

[RxBandit66]

But Orpik was on the ice, so it was his fault.

Same with every goal scored when Paul Martin was on last year.

Well, he gave Kessel way too big of a gap there. It's been a pattern from him of late. He's being paid to be an elite defender and needs to be better than he has been. Nothing is "his fault" because they won the game. But they won it despite his play not because of it.

[Eismann]

I just want to know when Brooks Orpik forgot how to play hockey, because somewhere during the last few seasons that seems to be what's happened. The mistakes he's making can't be the result of injury. They are the stupid mental mistake variety.

His decline would be less troubling if he wasn't in his 30's. But at 32 he should still have a lot of good hockey in him. Last night, his mistake led in large part to the one goal the leafs got, but his dumb penalties and clumsy handling of the stick/puck could have led to more goals against.

Utterly.

[shmenguin]

He's being paid to be an elite defender

is he?

[Pitt87]

But Orpik was on the ice, so it was his fault.

Same with every goal scored when Paul Martin was on last year.

Well, he gave Kessel way too big of a gap there. It's been a pattern from him of late. He's being paid to be an elite defender and needs to be better than he has been. Nothing is "his fault" because they won the game. But they won it despite his play not because of it.

I think sometimes Pens fans think of Brooksy being a more 'elite' defender than he really is. He played limited international juniors, played in the Olympics after a pretty epic two-year run, and thats about it. I think the minutes he has had to support has exposed him a bit more than it had in the past, probably because he does have to play the tough minutes.

A very smart person I know said to me recently that when she sees her best people doing mediocre work and receiving negative feedback, she knows that she's asked them to do something that is not within their capabilities. That's sort of how I feel about 44.

[penmyst]

I think sometimes Pens fans think of Brooksy being a more 'elite' defender than he really is. He played limited international juniors, played in the Olympics after a pretty epic two-year run, and thats about it. I think the minutes he has had to support has exposed him a bit more than it had in the past, probably because he does have to play the tough minutes.

A very smart person I know said to me recently that when she sees her best people doing mediocre work and receiving negative feedback, she knows that she's asked them to do something that is not within their capabilities. That's sort of how I feel about 44.

What's he being asked to do differently today than 3 years ago?

Not suck? Serious question here.

Because he *has* looked bad the past couple of seasons. His hits are way down, so there goes one of his upsides. Positionally he seems to be getting caught out a lot. A lot. And he isn't exactly physically removing guys from around the net area (though he's not the only Pens D guilty of that). He seems to be a liability in the offensive zone anytime the puck touches his stick, but then he's always been that way.

Right now, if he didn't have "Orpik" stitched on the back of his jersey, but instead had "Lovejoy", "Engelland", "Martin", or "Niskanen" back there---- the board would be having conniptions over him. He'd be invading every. single. thread. here at LetsGoPens like Tyler Kennedy on roids.

[tfrizz]

I think sometimes Pens fans think of Brooksy being a more 'elite' defender than he really is. He played limited international juniors, played in the Olympics after a pretty epic two-year run, and thats about it. I think the minutes he has had to support has exposed him a bit more than it had in the past, probably because he does have to play the tough minutes.

A very smart person I know said to me recently that when she sees her best people doing mediocre work and receiving negative feedback, she knows that she's asked them to do something that is not within their capabilities. That's sort of how I feel about 44.

What's he being asked to do differently today than 3 years ago?

Not suck? Serious question here.

Because he *has* looked bad the past couple of seasons. His hits are way down, so there goes one of his upsides. Positionally he seems to be getting caught out a lot. A lot. And he isn't exactly physically removing guys from around the net area (though he's not the only Pens D guilty of that). He seems to be a liability in the offensive zone anytime the puck touches his stick, but then he's always been that way.

Right now, if he didn't have "Orpik" stitched on the back of his jersey, but instead had "Lovejoy", "Engelland", "Martin", or "Niskanen" back there---- the board would be having conniptions over him. He'd be invading every. single. thread. here at LetsGoPens like Tyler Kennedy on roids.

I agree, and every time there was some injury that was "the reason" for his struggles.

[Desiato]

The mistakes he's making can't be the result of injury. They are the stupid mental mistake variety.

Of course they can. Playing through years of injuries practically guaranteed by his style of play can be exhausting. His ability to stay in shape may be impacted. Or perhaps he's playing with the assistance of pain killers because the Pens have no one who can replace him. We'll never know. Exhaustion results in mental mistakes. The system the Pens have played until recently was not a good fit for him.

To me, Orpik is beyond reproach. He's a proven warrior. No one should question his will after the physical--and likely financial--sacrifices he's made for this team and its fans.

With that said, he's clearly not the player he was, whatever the reason may be. I don't think he's close to as bad as some say. However, I believe the number one roster priority for the Pens should acquiring someone who can play like he used to.

What's he being asked to do differently today than 3 years ago?

What do the last three seasons have in common? Full-blown, up tempo, stretch pass, quick out, DB system. According to this forum, every defenceman on this team sucks defensively. It's not the players.

[Pavel Bure]

The mistakes he's making can't be the result of injury. They are the stupid mental mistake variety.

Of course they can. Playing through years of injuries practically guaranteed by his style of play can be exhausting. His ability to stay in shape may be impacted. Or perhaps he's playing with the assistance of pain killers because the Pens have no one who can replace him. We'll never know. Exhaustion results in mental mistakes. The system the Pens have played until recently was not a good fit for him.

To me, Orpik is beyond reproach. He's a proven warrior. No one should question his will after the physical--and likely financial--sacrifices he's made for this team and its fans.

With that said, he's clearly not the player he was, whatever the reason may be. I don't think he's close to as bad as some say. However, I believe the number one roster priority for the Pens should acquiring someone who can play like he used to.

What's he being asked to do differently today than 3 years ago?

What do the last three seasons have in common? Full-blown, up tempo, stretch pass, quick out, DB system. According to this forum, every defenceman on this team sucks defensively. It's not the players.

He's not the player he once was because the style he plays/played doesn't lend to careers deep into a player's 30's. That style beats them up and wears them down. He's now entering "aging veteran" status. He's not bad but might be being asked to do a little too much.

[Eismann]

Doesn't look like he's being asked to do anything unusual. He's just crapping at the basics.

[penmyst]

Desiato, Orpik *is* a warrior for this team. So I don't want it to come off that he's a bum. He's not. But he is nowhere near the level we have come to expect of him.

I don't care if he can't contribute to the offensive slant of HCDB's system.

The glaring problem is that the guy is constantly getting caught out in his own end, in individual matchups, and is losing many of those individual matchups when he does manage to get into proper positions. These last couple of years, I can't even count the times he's been caught spectating as yet another opponent scores an unmolested goal..

Previous to that, Orpik used to sometimes get out of position in the neutral zone hunting for hits. He doesn't do that any more because he doesn't hit any more. Now, he's getting out of position in the defensive zone. Which is a hyyuuuuuge problem for a guy that contributes nothing offensively, and little in the neutral zone.

[Pitt87]

I think sometimes Pens fans think of Brooksy being a more 'elite' defender than he really is. He played limited international juniors, played in the Olympics after a pretty epic two-year run, and thats about it. I think the minutes he has had to support has exposed him a bit more than it had in the past, probably because he does have to play the tough minutes.

A very smart person I know said to me recently that when she sees her best people doing mediocre work and receiving negative feedback, she knows that she's asked them to do something that is not within their capabilities. That's sort of how I feel about 44.

What's he being asked to do differently today than 3 years ago?

Not suck? Serious question here.

Consume more minutes, and play against top line players that are harder to put a body on. First time in his career he's led the Pens in PK TOI and averaged more than 22 minutes a game... and its a lot harder to play a physical style AND >20 minutes a night.

[Fire0nice228]

I think its what the physical style of play he has had his whole career has boiled down to. Power forwards usually peter out in the their early 30's and physical defensemen too. He needs to re-invent himself a little bit or be moved down to the third pairing in the next season.

[dbizzle66]

The recent success is all from teh Vokoun effect, of course.

But, seriously, it's great to see this team rally back against two quality teams.

[slappybrown]

Hits are the absolute worst stat ever, both from a pure counting/accuracy standpoint, and from a value standpoint.