LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby Shyster on Wed Mar 27, 2013 8:38 pm

tifosi77 wrote:It was once pointed out to me here that the word 'nimrod' actually means hunter or warrior (in reference to a Biblical character). But in a Warner Bros cartoon, Bugs Bunny once referred to Elmer Fudd as "poor little Nimrod", and people who didn't know the reference (most) interpreted it as as a dig at Elmer's depressed intelligence. Which is how the current definition of the word in American English came into being.

See Garner's Modern American Usage, p. liii.
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby canaan on Wed Mar 27, 2013 8:51 pm

Shyster wrote:
MWB wrote:What difference does it make how it changed? As with many words, society accepted a different meaning because enough people used it differently.

First, that is a different thing than what we are facing now, which is a situation where the Supreme Court may potentially order what I believe would be a definitional change.

Second, I work in a profession where the meaning of words is a manner of critical importance, and I myself am personally peeved by sloppy or imprecise usage. I’m a big fan of Bryan Garner and an aspiring snoot. I have two usage dictionaries that are right at this moment within arm’s reach. I generally view definitional drift as an enemy to be combated at every turn. Saying “who cares what marriage means?” is to me the linguistic equivalent of fingernails on a chalkboard.

so what if they amend the definition of the term? Words bend linguistically almost daily in todays world. A new episode of a tv show or a new song has people substituting and replacing terms immediately. To be against something on this basis confuses me. Mostly when that happens, my first reaction is to not believe what I'm reading/seeing/hearing.
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby columbia on Wed Mar 27, 2013 8:53 pm

It's a rationalization for promoting bigotry and discrimination.
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby canaan on Wed Mar 27, 2013 8:55 pm

columbia wrote:It's a rationalization for promoting bigotry and discrimination.

so weed isn't really going to make those Mexicans crazy and rape our white women? But that's what the man told me would happen. Chaos would ensue.
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby tifosi77 on Wed Mar 27, 2013 8:57 pm

Image

I just thought that was funny.
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby columbia on Wed Mar 27, 2013 9:03 pm

I find this very helpful to keep in mind, when interacting with people who are promoting discrimination.

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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby MWB on Wed Mar 27, 2013 9:25 pm

Shyster wrote:
MWB wrote:What difference does it make how it changed? As with many words, society accepted a different meaning because enough people used it differently.

First, that is a different thing than what we are facing now, which is a situation where the Supreme Court may potentially order what I believe would be a definitional change.

Second, I work in a profession where the meaning of words is a manner of critical importance, and I myself am personally peeved by sloppy or imprecise usage. I’m a big fan of Bryan Garner and an aspiring snoot. I have two usage dictionaries that are right at this moment within arm’s reach. I generally view definitional drift as an enemy to be combated at every turn. Saying “who cares what marriage means?” is to me the linguistic equivalent of fingernails on a chalkboard.


So does that mean you use the original definition and usage of every word? Sloppy usage is different from words naturally changing.

It's not, "Who cares what marriage means," it's "Marriage, like every other word, can change with the times to fit society."
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby canaan on Wed Mar 27, 2013 9:25 pm

Can we change the name of this thread to "The Rhetorical Bermuda Triangle" ?
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby columbia on Wed Mar 27, 2013 9:25 pm

lol
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby PensFanInDC on Thu Mar 28, 2013 10:26 am

canaan wrote:Can we change the name of this thread to "The Rhetorical Bermuda Triangle" ?


I tried....T'wont let me...
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby columbia on Thu Mar 28, 2013 10:27 am

Three Stars owns this thread, I guess.
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby PensFanInDC on Thu Mar 28, 2013 11:10 am

columbia wrote:Three Stars owns this thread, I guess.


Who own da thread?
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby tifosi77 on Thu Mar 28, 2013 12:58 pm

I actually don't disagree with Shyster's point of view about the definitions of words being critically important. I'm not an attorney, but I am a paralegal and spend my days reading and drafting legal agreements and so I encounter many of the same conflicts that Shyster is talking about. We revel in the differences between "pursuant to" and "in accordance with", between "best efforts" and "commercially reasonable efforts".

And that's actually the whole point of this debate. Words matter. And sometimes they matter so much that changes in their meaning are acceptable, perhaps even necessary.
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby tifosi77 on Thu Mar 28, 2013 1:15 pm

My harm go come out, and da game stop and start up again.
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby shafnutz05 on Thu Mar 28, 2013 1:45 pm

Wow.......

http://www.salon.com/2013/03/27/how_the_monsanto_protection_act_snuck_into_law/

Slipped into the Agricultural Appropriations Bill, which passed through Congress last week, was a small provision that’s a big deal for Monsanto and its opponents. The provision protects genetically modified seeds from litigation in the face of health risks and has thus been dubbed the “Monsanto Protection Act” by activists who oppose the biotech giant. President Barack Obama signed the spending bill, including the provision, into law on Tuesday

Since the act’s passing, more than 250,000 people have signed a petition opposing the provision and a rally, consisting largely of farmers organized by the Food Democracy Now network, protested outside the White House Wednesday. Not only has anger been directed at the Monsanto Protection Act’s content, but the way in which the provision was passed through Congress without appropriate review by the Agricultural or Judiciary Committees. The biotech rider instead was introduced anonymously as the larger bill progressed — little wonder food activists are accusing lobbyists and Congress members of backroom dealings.


“It sets a terrible precedent,” noted the International Business Times. “Though it will only remain in effect for six months until the government finds another way to fund its operations, the message it sends is that corporations can get around consumer safety protections if they get Congress on their side. Furthermore, it sets a precedent that suggests that court challenges are a privilege, not a right.”
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby columbia on Thu Mar 28, 2013 1:47 pm

tifosi77 wrote:My harm go come out, and da game stop and start up again.


Hitting that e-weed again?
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby PensFanInDC on Thu Mar 28, 2013 1:47 pm

I was going to post something about that. The good news is that it is only in act for 6 months and then it gets voted on again. Hopefully that is enough time to encourage congress to act.
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby columbia on Thu Mar 28, 2013 1:48 pm

shafnutz05 wrote:Wow.......

http://www.salon.com/2013/03/27/how_the_monsanto_protection_act_snuck_into_law/

Slipped into the Agricultural Appropriations Bill, which passed through Congress last week, was a small provision that’s a big deal for Monsanto and its opponents. The provision protects genetically modified seeds from litigation in the face of health risks and has thus been dubbed the “Monsanto Protection Act” by activists who oppose the biotech giant. President Barack Obama signed the spending bill, including the provision, into law on Tuesday

Since the act’s passing, more than 250,000 people have signed a petition opposing the provision and a rally, consisting largely of farmers organized by the Food Democracy Now network, protested outside the White House Wednesday. Not only has anger been directed at the Monsanto Protection Act’s content, but the way in which the provision was passed through Congress without appropriate review by the Agricultural or Judiciary Committees. The biotech rider instead was introduced anonymously as the larger bill progressed — little wonder food activists are accusing lobbyists and Congress members of backroom dealings.


“It sets a terrible precedent,” noted the International Business Times. “Though it will only remain in effect for six months until the government finds another way to fund its operations, the message it sends is that corporations can get around consumer safety protections if they get Congress on their side. Furthermore, it sets a precedent that suggests that court challenges are a privilege, not a right.”


Some code pink friends were griping about this the other day.....it seems with good reason.
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby tifosi77 on Thu Mar 28, 2013 1:48 pm

Monsanto is Latin for "pig poop".

True story.
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby shafnutz05 on Thu Mar 28, 2013 1:49 pm

columbia wrote:Some code pink friends were griping about this the other day.....it seems with good reason.



Is it true what they say? Code Pink girls are more fun?
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby Shyster on Thu Mar 28, 2013 3:45 pm

tifosi77 wrote:I actually don't disagree with Shyster's point of view about the definitions of words being critically important. I'm not an attorney, but I am a paralegal and spend my days reading and drafting legal agreements and so I encounter many of the same conflicts that Shyster is talking about. We revel in the differences between "pursuant to" and "in accordance with", between "best efforts" and "commercially reasonable efforts".

And that's actually the whole point of this debate. Words matter. And sometimes they matter so much that changes in their meaning are acceptable, perhaps even necessary.

I admit that my position on the meaning of “marriage” is rather picky. And it’s no reason to deny homosexual couples full equal protection under the law. I would prefer for the government to be completely neutral on whether something is a marriage or not. For example, I would revise any applicable statutes to refer to “domestic partners” or some similar term for both heterosexual and homosexual couples. Leave whether something is a “marriage” up to churches and private individuals.

As a libertarian, I basically resent any situation where the government wants to tell me to think a certain way or that I must accept a certain concept. I oppose anti-discrimination laws not because I believe that some people are inherently inferior or anything like that, but because I don’t think it’s the government’s business to tell people what to think, who to associate with, or how to run their private businesses. I equally don’t think it’s the government’s job to force a certain definition of marriage on the people.
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby stinky on Thu Mar 28, 2013 3:52 pm

Interesting Website, I find it to be very well done and seemingly through; however it doesn’t mean its correct or sound in its ranking or methodology. I doubt it is free of ideological influences; but I do know one thing, they got NY dead right. Take a look at your state and see if you agree.

http://freedominthe50states.org/
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby Geezer on Thu Mar 28, 2013 4:56 pm

columbia wrote:
shafnutz05 wrote:Wow.......

http://www.salon.com/2013/03/27/how_the_monsanto_protection_act_snuck_into_law/

Slipped into the Agricultural Appropriations Bill, which passed through Congress last week, was a small provision that’s a big deal for Monsanto and its opponents. The provision protects genetically modified seeds from litigation in the face of health risks and has thus been dubbed the “Monsanto Protection Act” by activists who oppose the biotech giant. President Barack Obama signed the spending bill, including the provision, into law on Tuesday

Since the act’s passing, more than 250,000 people have signed a petition opposing the provision and a rally, consisting largely of farmers organized by the Food Democracy Now network, protested outside the White House Wednesday. Not only has anger been directed at the Monsanto Protection Act’s content, but the way in which the provision was passed through Congress without appropriate review by the Agricultural or Judiciary Committees. The biotech rider instead was introduced anonymously as the larger bill progressed — little wonder food activists are accusing lobbyists and Congress members of backroom dealings.


“It sets a terrible precedent,” noted the International Business Times. “Though it will only remain in effect for six months until the government finds another way to fund its operations, the message it sends is that corporations can get around consumer safety protections if they get Congress on their side. Furthermore, it sets a precedent that suggests that court challenges are a privilege, not a right.”


Some code pink friends were griping about this the other day.....it seems with good reason.

Geez Columbia; code pink friends?
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby columbia on Thu Mar 28, 2013 5:18 pm

I was kidding.
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Re: LGP Political Discussion Thread - Latest news at top

Postby npv708 on Thu Mar 28, 2013 5:25 pm

Image
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