MVP

Forum for Pittsburgh Penguins-related messages.

Moderators: Three Stars, dagny, pfim, netwolf

Re: MVP

Postby Steve on Wed Apr 17, 2013 12:04 pm

Unless I'm remembering it incorrectly, Sid had a stronger finish to his rookie season, compared to Ovechkin - but Ovechkin won, and he deserved to win, because he was better for more of the season. I realize it's a different award, but hopefully the same criteria will be used for the MVP.

Ovechkin did alot of loafing early on too - that's not a term usually used for an MVP.
Steve
AHL All-Star
AHL All-Star
 
Posts: 5,669
Joined: Wed Feb 01, 2006 11:56 am
Location: Maryland

Re: MVP

Postby Pitt87 on Wed Apr 17, 2013 12:26 pm

Froggy wrote:Anyone saying anybody but Crosby is over thinking it.


Once again, people are trying to make a case for Sid to NOT win it... That alone should settle any related argument...
Pitt87
AHL All-Star
AHL All-Star
 
Posts: 5,210
Joined: Tue Apr 28, 2009 11:33 am
Location: Admin wrote:Rooting for the Flyers is not allowed here. Seriously.

Re: MVP

Postby Steve Dave on Wed Apr 17, 2013 12:27 pm

nexguy66 wrote:AO is not likely to tie Sid in points. If that's the case and Sid does not come back until the playoffs, then sports writers have to decide if they want to vote for Alex even though he has fewer points than Sid with a dozen more games under his belt. Most likely Ovechkin ends the season 4th or 5th in scoring. Hart goes to the 4th or 5th scorer?

Did Alex help his bubble team into the playoffs? Absolutely. Did Alex help his team BECOME a bubble team? Without a doubt.

Sid helped his team clinch an early playoff spot.

Not to mention, if Alex gets the Hart, he would be the first hart winner in history(or at least last 50 years) with such a low amount of assists relative to the rest of the league. Alex has two teammates with 40+ points. No other team can say that.

It would take quite a huge point streak by Ovechkin for him to get it. I imagine it's more likely between Sid and Bobrovsky.


AO is already 4th in scoring with 5 games remaining. I can easily see him passing everyone on his current streak. I still say Crosby deserves it.

Crosby 36gp 15g 41a 56p +26
Stamkos 43gp 27g 26a 53p -7
St. Louis 43gp 12g 41a 53p -3
Ovechkin 43gp 28g 20a 48p +2
Steve Dave
ECHL'er
ECHL'er
 
Posts: 928
Joined: Sat Oct 09, 2010 12:09 pm

Re: MVP

Postby darkstar57 on Wed Apr 17, 2013 12:35 pm

Ovie was not doing much until he was put back on a line with backstrom, the media sees and knows that ovie resurgence has a lot to do with backstrom resurgence
darkstar57
AHL'er
AHL'er
 
Posts: 2,894
Joined: Wed Jul 02, 2008 3:13 pm
Location: A flute with no holes, is not a flute. A donut with no hole, is a Danish

Re: MVP

Postby TrueNorth on Wed Apr 17, 2013 12:43 pm

nexguy66 wrote:
newarenanow wrote:
Froggy wrote:Anyone saying anybody but Crosby is over thinking it.


I don't think so. I think writers will punish Crosby for getting injured, and reward AO for being hot at the end of the season when his tear is fresh in everyones minds.


I think the writers are pretty smart guys who look at a lot of criteria.


Ovechkin may be the most gifted player on his team, but I don’t think that automatically makes him the most valuable. Being supremely talented means nothing if you aren’t bringing it every game and contributing to your team’s success. For me, his missing in action for over half of the season is a main reason why I think he is not the most deserving recipient of this award.
TrueNorth
Junior 'A'
Junior 'A'
 
Posts: 304
Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2013 6:36 pm

Re: MVP

Postby Shakes on Wed Apr 17, 2013 12:51 pm

Shelly Anderson ‏@pgshelly 1h
Bylsma: "Adams Oates is the only person I've heard of who doesn't" think Crosby should win Hart. Oates is pushing for Ovechkin.
Shakes
ECHL'er
ECHL'er
 
Posts: 1,893
Joined: Tue Nov 22, 2011 1:27 pm
Location: Rochester, NY

Re: MVP

Postby Shakes on Wed Apr 17, 2013 12:54 pm

skullman80 wrote:A coach is going to support his own player. I don't see why people are suprised at that. Oates isn't going to say... "Crosby is the best player, hands down the MVP". He is going to back his own guy, and I don't see the issue with that. He's wrong, but I think most coaches would do the same thing.


Has anyone said they're surprised by that?
Shakes
ECHL'er
ECHL'er
 
Posts: 1,893
Joined: Tue Nov 22, 2011 1:27 pm
Location: Rochester, NY

Re: MVP

Postby thepittman on Wed Apr 17, 2013 1:19 pm

DelPen wrote:
thepittman wrote:AO stepped up scoring, brought his team back from missing the playoffs, and now they lead their division. Makes a pretty good case.


So we ignore his suck play the first half of the season because he's a slug? It's one thing to come back from an injury and then dominate. But when a player is on your bench contributing nothing and then decides to play how can you say he's an MVP of any team?


It makes a good case for it. People like a "player stuck in a rut and turning it around" storyline
thepittman
AHL Hall of Famer
AHL Hall of Famer
 
Posts: 8,098
Joined: Thu May 28, 2009 3:52 pm
Location: (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻

Re: MVP

Postby luv66 on Wed Apr 17, 2013 1:23 pm

largegarlic wrote:I hate to say it, but if I had a vote, I think I would vote for Ovechkin at this point. I always think the Hart should be awarded to the player who means the most to his team, not necessarily the player who had the best season. Ovechkin has almost single-handedly brought the Caps back from the dead and put them in position to be the 3-seed (granted, it's a crappy division, but still). Take him away from that team, and they're probably in the lottery for the top draft pick.

...



Unfortunately, I have to agree with this.
luv66
ECHL'er
ECHL'er
 
Posts: 1,036
Joined: Wed Mar 30, 2011 3:17 pm

Re: MVP

Postby Gaucho on Wed Apr 17, 2013 1:35 pm

Laughable. About two weeks ago Crosby was the overwhelming favorite to win the Hart, it really wasn't even close. Now he has missed six games, still leads AO by 8 points and all of a sudden the hibernating Russian bear gets the vote? I don't think so.
Gaucho
NHL Third Liner
NHL Third Liner
 
Posts: 40,717
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2006 10:22 am
Location: The Onyx Club

Re: MVP

Postby headh on Wed Apr 17, 2013 1:48 pm

Gaucho wrote:Laughable. About two weeks ago Crosby was the overwhelming favorite to win the Hart, it really wasn't even close. Now he has missed six games, still leads AO by 8 points and all of a sudden the hibernating Russian bear gets the vote? I don't think so.


Hibernating?? Oh he's awake....and he's pi$$ed
headh
Junior 'A'
Junior 'A'
 
Posts: 426
Joined: Wed Jan 30, 2013 10:07 am

Re: MVP

Postby toby91_ca on Wed Apr 17, 2013 1:51 pm

DelPen wrote:I'd give it to Anderson even over Crosby. The award should go to most valuable to his team. There are so many good players on this team it's hard to pick whop is the MOST valuable. The only reason the Sens are in the playoff piscture at all is because of him especially after Karlson went down.


There is just so much wrong with that statement. Anderson has played in 17 games and has missed 24 games, yet he's the only reason the Sens are in the playoff picture? The Sens are 9-6-2, .588 win % with him and 12-8-4, .583 win % without him.

Does he have good stats in the few games he's played? Sure, but he shouldn't be in a conversation for Hart even if you extended the conversation to include the top 100 players in the running.
toby91_ca
Junior 'A'
Junior 'A'
 
Posts: 370
Joined: Mon Sep 25, 2006 8:37 pm

Re: MVP

Postby thepittman on Wed Apr 17, 2013 2:00 pm

toby91_ca wrote:
DelPen wrote:I'd give it to Anderson even over Crosby. The award should go to most valuable to his team. There are so many good players on this team it's hard to pick whop is the MOST valuable. The only reason the Sens are in the playoff piscture at all is because of him especially after Karlson went down.


There is just so much wrong with that statement. Anderson has played in 17 games and has missed 24 games, yet he's the only reason the Sens are in the playoff picture? The Sens are 9-6-2, .588 win % with him and 12-8-4, .583 win % without him.

Does he have good stats in the few games he's played? Sure, but he shouldn't be in a conversation for Hart even if you extended the conversation to include the top 100 players in the running.

I don't believe a goaltender should get it since they have their own MVP trophy
thepittman
AHL Hall of Famer
AHL Hall of Famer
 
Posts: 8,098
Joined: Thu May 28, 2009 3:52 pm
Location: (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻

Re: MVP

Postby thepittman on Wed Apr 17, 2013 2:02 pm

It would have to a really amazing performance the entire season and be a buzz in the media for it to happen
thepittman
AHL Hall of Famer
AHL Hall of Famer
 
Posts: 8,098
Joined: Thu May 28, 2009 3:52 pm
Location: (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻

Re: MVP

Postby shmenguin on Wed Apr 17, 2013 2:04 pm

"the player who means the most to his team" is a silly way to judge awards.
shmenguin
NHL Fourth Liner
NHL Fourth Liner
 
Posts: 22,407
Joined: Mon Nov 06, 2006 11:34 pm

Re: MVP

Postby SolidSnake on Wed Apr 17, 2013 2:04 pm

Froggy wrote:Anyone saying anybody but Crosby is over thinking it.

this
SolidSnake
NHL Fourth Liner
NHL Fourth Liner
 
Posts: 19,127
Joined: Thu Apr 20, 2006 4:41 pm
Location: Winners don't use drugs.- William S. Sessions.

Re: MVP

Postby SolidSnake on Wed Apr 17, 2013 2:05 pm

Gaucho wrote:Sid missed 6 games so far and is still 8 points ahead of AO. So to anyone who dares to vote for Fat Alex: **** you.

haha this too
SolidSnake
NHL Fourth Liner
NHL Fourth Liner
 
Posts: 19,127
Joined: Thu Apr 20, 2006 4:41 pm
Location: Winners don't use drugs.- William S. Sessions.

Re: MVP

Postby thepittman on Wed Apr 17, 2013 2:21 pm

shmenguin wrote:"the player who means the most to his team" is a silly way to judge awards.

How else would you define "Most Valuable Player"?
thepittman
AHL Hall of Famer
AHL Hall of Famer
 
Posts: 8,098
Joined: Thu May 28, 2009 3:52 pm
Location: (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻

Re: MVP

Postby largegarlic on Wed Apr 17, 2013 2:31 pm

I guess I don't really care about it that much, but I think it does make sense to award the Hart to the player most valuable to his team, even if this is a subjective, debatable judgment. We have the Art Ross for the player with the most points and the Pearson (is it really Lindsay now?) for the best player. What's the point of having a separate Hart trophy if it just goes to the player with the most points or the best player?

I absolutely think Crosby would have won the Art Ross had he stayed healthy (and he still might win if he comes back for a game or two), and I absolutely think he's the best player in the league, but that still doesn't necessarily entail that he should win the Hart. I think Bill Simmons had this sort of thought experiment to help determine MVP picks: Imagine you replace a guy with an average player, and then imagine where that team would be in the standings. The team that would have the biggest drop when this hypothetical substitution is made lets you judge who the MVP is. The Pens essentially replaced Crosby with Jokinen, and they're still winning.
largegarlic
ECHL'er
ECHL'er
 
Posts: 1,688
Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2007 7:56 pm

Re: MVP

Postby Froggy on Wed Apr 17, 2013 2:32 pm

I agree that a goalie shouldn't win the Hart unless they have some unheard of record breaking season. There is no way to objectively compare them to anyone except other goalies.

And being "most important player to your team" is a factor, but when one player outproduced all of his peers by the rate Crosby did this year, that is more significant.
Froggy
NHL Fourth Liner
NHL Fourth Liner
 
Posts: 17,573
Joined: Sat Aug 12, 2006 2:40 pm
Location: http://DrunkInAGraveyard.com

Re: MVP

Postby iWonTheCup87 on Wed Apr 17, 2013 2:56 pm

its going to honestly piss me off if they give it to ovechkin honestly. I could care less what hes done in the last month. He camps on the PP left circle and gets 1 or 2 goals every game that way. He DOES nothing else for the team. He is awful defensively like always and the first half of this season he was so bad. Not saying you dont have a chance to redeem yourself because hes played much better but if you play pretty mediocre for 40-50 minutes a night and are invisible then you score a goal here or there people completely forget how bad you were before.

so basically ovie could play 59 terrbible minutes a night but if he scores a goal in the last minute people will be like omg ovie is so good. He is nothing to compared to crosby honestly
iWonTheCup87
ECHL'er
ECHL'er
 
Posts: 2,346
Joined: Mon Mar 21, 2011 10:42 pm
Location: Inside Crosby's basement dryer

Re: MVP

Postby Shakes on Wed Apr 17, 2013 4:21 pm

iWonTheCup87 wrote:its going to honestly piss me off if they give it to ovechkin honestly. I could care less what hes done in the last month. He camps on the PP left circle and gets 1 or 2 goals every game that way. He DOES nothing else for the team. He is awful defensively like always and the first half of this season he was so bad. Not saying you dont have a chance to redeem yourself because hes played much better but if you play pretty mediocre for 40-50 minutes a night and are invisible then you score a goal here or there people completely forget how bad you were before.

so basically ovie could play 59 terrbible minutes a night but if he scores a goal in the last minute people will be like omg ovie is so good. He is nothing to compared to crosby honestly


Honestly? :wink:
Shakes
ECHL'er
ECHL'er
 
Posts: 1,893
Joined: Tue Nov 22, 2011 1:27 pm
Location: Rochester, NY

Re: MVP

Postby Pitt87 on Wed Apr 17, 2013 4:28 pm

thepittman wrote:
shmenguin wrote:"the player who means the most to his team" is a silly way to judge awards.

How else would you define "Most Valuable Player"?


Doesn't matter how any one person defines it. NHL defines it as "the player judged most valuable to his team", and the Professional Hockey Writers Association determines the winner on that basis.
Pitt87
AHL All-Star
AHL All-Star
 
Posts: 5,210
Joined: Tue Apr 28, 2009 11:33 am
Location: Admin wrote:Rooting for the Flyers is not allowed here. Seriously.

Re: MVP

Postby shmenguin on Wed Apr 17, 2013 5:00 pm

If there were 2 awards, one called "MVP" and one called "Most Outstanding Player", MVP would be a consolation prize. It shouldn't be the showcase award if it's defined as "most valuable to your team".
shmenguin
NHL Fourth Liner
NHL Fourth Liner
 
Posts: 22,407
Joined: Mon Nov 06, 2006 11:34 pm

Re: MVP

Postby DontToewsMeBro on Wed Apr 17, 2013 5:19 pm

The writers that vote on the 'MVP' award don't even have a consensus about what it actually means. More often than not, it goes to the best player in the league.
DontToewsMeBro
AHL'er
AHL'er
 
Posts: 3,201
Joined: Mon Feb 11, 2008 6:31 pm

PreviousNext

Return to Pittsburgh Penguins

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 6 guests

e-mail