Awesome fair play and/or unbelievably dumb?

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Awesome fair play and/or unbelievably dumb?

Postby Tomas on Sun Apr 21, 2013 11:09 pm

Say, you are a defenseman in the game 7 of the finals series. You are up 3:2. One minute before the end of regulation, your team commits a penalty. The other pulls their goalie. Now it's 14 seconds until the end of regulation, and your opponent sends a high desperate pass into your zone. The puck flies past the boards. Only you know that it slightly brushed by your helmet. The referee is unsure what happened. If you don't admit that, the face-off is outside your zone. If you say yes, it will be on the inside. The referee comes to you and asks - 'did you deflect the puck?'

What would you say?

Slovakian player for HC Pilsen Tomas Slovak (yes, seriously :) ) said yes. The face-off came inside the Pilsen zone, and after 4 seconds, the home(!) opponent (HC Zlin) scores the equalizer, sending the whole arena into unbelievable frenzy (see 2:17 in this video: http://www.sport.cz/hokej/extraliga/cla ... tml#hp-sez ).

Image

(Zlin was the better team during the OT, Luckily for Slovak, Pilsen won the finals thanks to Martin Straka's GWG in the 2nd OT. Otherwise, he'd probably be deported back to Slovakia... :) )
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Re: Awesome fair play and/or unbelievably dumb?

Postby the wicked child on Sun Apr 21, 2013 11:27 pm

Answer would be "Yes", I believe.
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Re: Awesome fair play and/or unbelievably dumb?

Postby Pavel Bure on Mon Apr 22, 2013 8:12 am

My response? "Isn't that your job to figure out?" while wearing a big smirk.
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Re: Awesome fair play and/or unbelievably dumb?

Postby PghSkins on Mon Apr 22, 2013 8:23 am

I think it's odd that he asked. Refs have to make calls all the time without being 100% sure of what they saw, especially with the speed of hockey. Call something confidently to your best ability and move on.

But if asked I'd go with Pavel's answer. Not gonna lie but also not gonna put my team at a disadvantage.
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Re: Awesome fair play and/or unbelievably dumb?

Postby Fire0nice228 on Tue Apr 23, 2013 11:31 am

I'd say no.
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Re: Awesome fair play and/or unbelievably dumb?

Postby Idoit40fans on Tue Apr 23, 2013 11:34 am

Even if it would be a blatantly obvious lie, I would still say no. You are under no obligation to tell the truth, you are under an obligation to try to win.
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Re: Awesome fair play and/or unbelievably dumb?

Postby MRandall25 on Tue Apr 23, 2013 11:58 am

Not his fault that his center couldn't win the draw.
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Re: Awesome fair play and/or unbelievably dumb?

Postby ExPatriatePen on Wed Apr 24, 2013 8:07 am

It wouldn't have mattered to me. I don't speak the language so I wouldn't have understood the question. :pop:
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Re: Awesome fair play and/or unbelievably dumb?

Postby Tomas on Tue Apr 30, 2013 2:12 pm

This is weird: turns out that Tomas Slovak happens to be a devoted Christian, and because of that he will get a fair-play award from the Czech Catholic Bishop Conference, presented directly by Cardinal Dominik Duka???

http://translate.google.com/translate?s ... -zpravy_pp

http://plzen.idnes.cz/foto.aspx?r=plzen ... 730665.jpg
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Re: Awesome fair play and/or unbelievably dumb?

Postby DelPen on Thu May 02, 2013 2:24 pm

if 4 officials missed it then it never happened.
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Re: Awesome fair play and/or unbelievably dumb?

Postby yubb on Thu May 02, 2013 3:41 pm

I'd tell the stripes the truth.

I want to win the game as it's played. The refs are the closest we can get to making the game objective and fair. I'm not trying to win a game based on what the refs saw. I'm trying to win a game based on what actually happened.

I don't care that most players would like and give themselves the advantage. Have some respect for yourself and others and admit what really happened. That goes for everything, not just obscure, once-in-a-lifetime plays in hockey.
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Re: Awesome fair play and/or unbelievably dumb?

Postby ExPatriatePen on Thu May 02, 2013 3:48 pm

yubb wrote:I'd tell the stripes the truth.

I want to win the game as it's played. The refs are the closest we can get to making the game objective and fair. I'm not trying to win a game based on what the refs saw. I'm trying to win a game based on what actually happened.

I don't care that most players would like and give themselves the advantage. Have some respect for yourself and others and admit what really happened. That goes for everything, not just obscure, once-in-a-lifetime plays in hockey.

Your under no obligation to answer that question though, it's not like a score card violation in golf.

I'd just tell the Ref "it happened pretty quickly..." which obviously doesn't answer his question definitively but is still an honest answer. Put the onus on the refs, it is their responsibility.
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Re: Awesome fair play and/or unbelievably dumb?

Postby IanMoran on Thu May 02, 2013 5:28 pm

Dumb
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Re: Awesome fair play and/or unbelievably dumb?

Postby MRandall25 on Thu May 02, 2013 5:44 pm

MRandall25 wrote:Not his fault that his center couldn't win the draw.
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Re: Awesome fair play and/or unbelievably dumb?

Postby Idoit40fans on Fri May 03, 2013 7:46 am

Yeah, just his fault that the draw was being taken there and they had to effectively rely on a coin toss to prevent the other team from getting an offensive possession.
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Re: Awesome fair play and/or unbelievably dumb?

Postby brwi on Fri May 03, 2013 9:00 am

Tomas Slovak has no future at all as a politician :D

I really admire his integrity and I also don't think I would have answered the ref there. He's obviously made of stronger stuff than I am.
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Re: Awesome fair play and/or unbelievably dumb?

Postby yubb on Fri May 03, 2013 11:44 am

ExPatriatePen wrote:
yubb wrote:I'd tell the stripes the truth.

I want to win the game as it's played. The refs are the closest we can get to making the game objective and fair. I'm not trying to win a game based on what the refs saw. I'm trying to win a game based on what actually happened.

I don't care that most players would like and give themselves the advantage. Have some respect for yourself and others and admit what really happened. That goes for everything, not just obscure, once-in-a-lifetime plays in hockey.

Your under no obligation to answer that question though, it's not like a score card violation in golf.

I'd just tell the Ref "it happened pretty quickly..." which obviously doesn't answer his question definitively but is still an honest answer. Put the onus on the refs, it is their responsibility.


If you know it hit you and you answer "it happened pretty quickly..." that is not an honest answer. An honest answer is "Yes." A lie is to say "No." Saying "it happened pretty quickly" is at least deceitful, insinuating that you don't know the answer, and is at most a flat out lie.

I realize you're under no obligation by the rules of the game to tell the ref what happened, but there are other rules to live by as well. My own personal rules would say that I should tell the ref.
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Re: Awesome fair play and/or unbelievably dumb?

Postby brwi on Fri May 03, 2013 11:54 am

Tomas wrote:This is weird: turns out that Tomas Slovak happens to be a devoted Christian, and because of that he will get a fair-play award from the Czech Catholic Bishop Conference, presented directly by Cardinal Dominik Duka???

http://translate.google.com/translate?s ... -zpravy_pp

http://plzen.idnes.cz/foto.aspx?r=plzen ... 730665.jpg


He definitely deserved it.
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Re: Awesome fair play and/or unbelievably dumb?

Postby ExPatriatePen on Fri May 03, 2013 12:53 pm

yubb wrote:
ExPatriatePen wrote:
yubb wrote:I'd tell the stripes the truth.

I want to win the game as it's played. The refs are the closest we can get to making the game objective and fair. I'm not trying to win a game based on what the refs saw. I'm trying to win a game based on what actually happened.

I don't care that most players would like and give themselves the advantage. Have some respect for yourself and others and admit what really happened. That goes for everything, not just obscure, once-in-a-lifetime plays in hockey.

Your under no obligation to answer that question though, it's not like a score card violation in golf.

I'd just tell the Ref "it happened pretty quickly..." which obviously doesn't answer his question definitively but is still an honest answer. Put the onus on the refs, it is their responsibility.


If you know it hit you and you answer "it happened pretty quickly..." that is not an honest answer. An honest answer is "Yes." A lie is to say "No." Saying "it happened pretty quickly" is at least deceitful, insinuating that you don't know the answer, and is at most a flat out lie.

I realize you're under no obligation by the rules of the game to tell the ref what happened, but there are other rules to live by as well. My own personal rules would say that I should tell the ref.


:face:

To take your logic to the extreme, lets say for instance that you're a winger who crosses over the blue line before the puck. Your teammate takes the pass and scores. Do you go to the refs and tell them to wipe it off the scoreboard? :?:

I'll bet there's not a single poster on this board that would do that.

You're under no obligation to answer his question. And yes the play happened quickly. What's dishonest about pointing that out?
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Re: Awesome fair play and/or unbelievably dumb?

Postby yubb on Fri May 03, 2013 1:28 pm

When you're crossing the blue line you're in no position to be able to determine if you were offsides or not.
When you're standing on the ice, you're in the best position to be able to determine if a puck hits you in the helmet or not.

We're going on the premise that you know the puck hit you. Based on that premise, answering "it happened quickly, i'm not sure" is a lie.

There are many times where I cross the blue line, drag my foot to try to stay onsides and look to the refs to see if they're going to blow the play dead. I can't tell if I actually stayed onsides from my vantage point. When a puck hits you in the helmet you feel it and you hear it. There's no question; it's not a judgment.

And if you did tell the ref you were offsides there's no chance he's going to reverse the call. And no ref is going to ask you if you were offsides, because he can tell better than you, the player, can.

Again, I agree that you're under no obligation to "turn yourself in" according to the law of the game. Just like I'm not under any obligation to tell my girlfriend I cheated on her, but if she asked, and if I did, I would tell her.

So lose the facepalm, and be objective.
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Re: Awesome fair play and/or unbelievably dumb?

Postby ExPatriatePen on Fri May 03, 2013 1:56 pm

yubb wrote:When you're crossing the blue line you're in no position to be able to determine if you were offsides or not.
When you're standing on the ice, you're in the best position to be able to determine if a puck hits you in the helmet or not.


Really? You've never done something and recognized that you should have been penalized and not gotten called on it? I Don't think you're being honest. :)

yubb wrote:We're going on the premise that you know the puck hit you. Based on that premise, answering "it happened quickly, i'm not sure" is a lie.


Don't put words in my mouth. I said "It happened quickly..." which is the truth. You added "I'm not sure", which is not only a lie, but the fact that you added those words, well, that's not a very ethical way of making your point is it? :)

yubb wrote:... and be objective.


Same back at you.

BtW, reasonable men can disagree... the question was "what would you do"... I respect that you think you'd do something different than me. Just like i respect those that say they'd out and out lie with a "No, it never hit me answer". It's not how I would handle it but we're talking about how we'd act in during a game. We're not talking about a Federal Murder case here.
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Re: Awesome fair play and/or unbelievably dumb?

Postby yubb on Fri May 03, 2013 2:19 pm

ExPatriatePen wrote:
yubb wrote:When you're crossing the blue line you're in no position to be able to determine if you were offsides or not.
When you're standing on the ice, you're in the best position to be able to determine if a puck hits you in the helmet or not.


Really? You've never done something and recognized that you should have been penalized and not gotten called on it? I Don't think you're being honest. :)

yubb wrote:We're going on the premise that you know the puck hit you. Based on that premise, answering "it happened quickly, i'm not sure" is a lie.


Don't put words in my mouth. I said "It happened quickly..." which is the truth. You added "I'm not sure", which is not only a lie, but the fact that you added those words, well, that's not a very ethical way of making your point is it? :)

yubb wrote:... and be objective.


Same back at you.

BtW, reasonable men can disagree... the question was "what would you do"... I respect that you think you'd do something different than me. Just like i respect those that say they'd out and out lie with a "No, it never hit me answer". It's not how I would handle it but we're talking about how we'd act in during a game. We're not talking about a Federal Murder case here.


1) The case of a puck hitting you is differnet than most penalties. It's different in that you know for sure that a puck hit you. It's also differnet in that the ref, in this case, is asking you. Refs never ask if you hook a guy. They either call it or they don't. I commit penalties all the time. I hack and hook people all the time. If a ref skated up and asked me if I did it, I'd give him an honest answer. If I knew it was a hook I'd say yes. If I wasn't sure I'd say I wasn't sure. If he asks if a puck hit me I'd tell him. Having a puck hit you is so much more black and white than committing most penalties. You can have ten people look at a slashing call and you'll get many different calls as to whether or not it was a penalty. If a puck hits your helmet, you know. You can't compare the puck hitting you to a non-called penalty.

2) I added the "I'm not sure" because that's the point that is being stated by the OP. The OP defined in the premise: "Only you know that it slightly brushed by your helmet." I'm saying that if I know the puck hit me and the ref asked me, then I would tell him it hit me. I can't put words in your mouth when I speaking on the ground rules that the OP defined for the sitatuation.

3) Murder is the case that they gave me; I'm innocent. I'm innocent.
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Re: Awesome fair play and/or unbelievably dumb?

Postby columbia on Fri May 03, 2013 3:34 pm

I enjoyed the unexpected Snoop reference.
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Re: Awesome fair play and/or unbelievably dumb?

Postby count2infinity on Fri May 03, 2013 9:10 pm

Many of times playing soccer a hard shot would come my way and I'd get a glove on it to just tip it wide. Anytime it was possible that ref may not have seen it, I would look to him/her and point to the corner to indicate that I touched it. There's no honor in lying, especially when it's just a game.
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Re: Awesome fair play and/or unbelievably dumb?

Postby yubb on Sun May 05, 2013 11:31 am

columbia wrote:I enjoyed the unexpected Snoop reference.

:thumb:
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