George R.R. Martin

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Re: George R.R. Martin

Postby PensFanInDC on Mon Apr 22, 2013 9:31 am

One thing that has not translated well onto the screen is the lure of Jaime Lannister. The books do a much better job of building up how famous he really is, especially for his sword fighting ability. It seems to me that in the show he's Cersei's brother, a Lannister, killed the previous King during the rebellion, and a good swordsman.

TV Show spoilers through last night's episode

Spoiler:
He says "I was that hand" or whatever, and that's close, but it doesn't even begin to touch how much of a big deal losing that hand is. Yes, losing a hand in our world would really, really suck, and in that world (no modern medicine) it would suck even worse. But Jaime Lannister is the greatest swordsman to ever live and he was right handed. I feel that it's a bigger deal in the book than it is on screen.


I still love the portrayal of Varys. I'm still not sure if that dude has ever told the truth.
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Re: George R.R. Martin

Postby Kraftster on Mon Apr 22, 2013 9:48 am

I am just going to be overly cautious and spoiler this entire discussion. But I question for those who read the books and follow the show. Note that for those responding, I'd prefer to avoid any "book spoilers" of what may happen in the future.

Spoiler:
I feel like this season has been a real snoozefest. This may be attributable to the fact that I marathoned through S1 and S2 and now am actually having to wait week to week to see "what happens next," but I have a question regarding how the books have translated to the screen.

I feel that a lot of the "slow moving" failures that I attribute to the show right now stem from the fact that the show initially sets up, in my opinion, as being a somewhat Stark-centric show. Or, at the very least, that it sets up as having central plot lines. Watching S1, I would have never thought that I might have to be watching Theon Greyjoy enough to be prepared for him deserving 1/10th of an episode at a point where I'm dying to see Tyrell manipulation, how Khaleesi keeps her dragon, etc. And 1/10th an episode in an episode where, if I recall correctly, we don't see Robb Stark or Jon Snow for even a single second.

I think I appreciate the complexity of just how much is going on right now, but I feel like S1 did a bad job of setting the show up as one that would be so slow moving (perhaps out of necessity) and one where literally every character, it seems, is deserving of equal attention and development.

I guess I think this would make for a better book than show in this regard, and I'm just wondering if the books do a better job of setting up the world as being as multi-directional (from a plot standpoint) as it seems to be.
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Re: George R.R. Martin

Postby Hockeynut! on Mon Apr 22, 2013 10:10 am

PensFanInDC wrote:I still love the portrayal of Varys. I'm still not sure if that dude has ever told the truth.


Next to Tyrion, Lord Varys is easily my favorite character. So well written and acted.
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Re: George R.R. Martin

Postby largegarlic on Mon Apr 22, 2013 10:23 am

Kraftster wrote:I am just going to be overly cautious and spoiler this entire discussion. But I question for those who read the books and follow the show. Note that for those responding, I'd prefer to avoid any "book spoilers" of what may happen in the future.

Spoiler:
I feel like this season has been a real snoozefest. This may be attributable to the fact that I marathoned through S1 and S2 and now am actually having to wait week to week to see "what happens next," but I have a question regarding how the books have translated to the screen.

I feel that a lot of the "slow moving" failures that I attribute to the show right now stem from the fact that the show initially sets up, in my opinion, as being a somewhat Stark-centric show. Or, at the very least, that it sets up as having central plot lines. Watching S1, I would have never thought that I might have to be watching Theon Greyjoy enough to be prepared for him deserving 1/10th of an episode at a point where I'm dying to see Tyrell manipulation, how Khaleesi keeps her dragon, etc. And 1/10th an episode in an episode where, if I recall correctly, we don't see Robb Stark or Jon Snow for even a single second.

I think I appreciate the complexity of just how much is going on right now, but I feel like S1 did a bad job of setting the show up as one that would be so slow moving (perhaps out of necessity) and one where literally every character, it seems, is deserving of equal attention and development.

I guess I think this would make for a better book than show in this regard, and I'm just wondering if the books do a better job of setting up the world as being as multi-directional (from a plot standpoint) as it seems to be.


I haven't read the books either, but I share a similar frustration.
Spoiler:
I appreciate that it is a very complex world being created with dozens of interesting characters and plotlines, but certain things seem like they could be streamlined or just eliminated. Theon's plotline literally went in a circle these past few episodes. I get that we need to be reminded that Bran still exists every once in a while, but that dream sequence with him was pretty pointless. The Night's Watch mutiny was interesting and important, but I really don't want to watch Sam and that girl stumble around in the snow for several episodes after this. There are so many other more interesting things that could benefit from that screen time.
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Re: George R.R. Martin

Postby Spangler on Mon Apr 22, 2013 12:04 pm

largegarlic wrote:
Kraftster wrote:I am just going to be overly cautious and spoiler this entire discussion. But I question for those who read the books and follow the show. Note that for those responding, I'd prefer to avoid any "book spoilers" of what may happen in the future.

Spoiler:
I feel like this season has been a real snoozefest. This may be attributable to the fact that I marathoned through S1 and S2 and now am actually having to wait week to week to see "what happens next," but I have a question regarding how the books have translated to the screen.

I feel that a lot of the "slow moving" failures that I attribute to the show right now stem from the fact that the show initially sets up, in my opinion, as being a somewhat Stark-centric show. Or, at the very least, that it sets up as having central plot lines. Watching S1, I would have never thought that I might have to be watching Theon Greyjoy enough to be prepared for him deserving 1/10th of an episode at a point where I'm dying to see Tyrell manipulation, how Khaleesi keeps her dragon, etc. And 1/10th an episode in an episode where, if I recall correctly, we don't see Robb Stark or Jon Snow for even a single second.

I think I appreciate the complexity of just how much is going on right now, but I feel like S1 did a bad job of setting the show up as one that would be so slow moving (perhaps out of necessity) and one where literally every character, it seems, is deserving of equal attention and development.

I guess I think this would make for a better book than show in this regard, and I'm just wondering if the books do a better job of setting up the world as being as multi-directional (from a plot standpoint) as it seems to be.


I haven't read the books either, but I share a similar frustration.
Spoiler:
I appreciate that it is a very complex world being created with dozens of interesting characters and plotlines, but certain things seem like they could be streamlined or just eliminated. Theon's plotline literally went in a circle these past few episodes. I get that we need to be reminded that Bran still exists every once in a while, but that dream sequence with him was pretty pointless. The Night's Watch mutiny was interesting and important, but I really don't want to watch Sam and that girl stumble around in the snow for several episodes after this. There are so many other more interesting things that could benefit from that screen time.


Theon's plotline going in a circle is necessary in this circumstance.

It was mentioned earlier that Jamie's swordsmanship hasn't translated well, and I agree. There is still time to address it though.
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Re: George R.R. Martin

Postby canaan on Mon Apr 22, 2013 12:49 pm

i really thought they were going to avoid the torturing of theon...im glad that is not the case.
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Re: George R.R. Martin

Postby WDWBurghGooner on Mon Apr 22, 2013 3:52 pm

PensFanInDC wrote:One thing that has not translated well onto the screen is the lure of Jaime Lannister. The books do a much better job of building up how famous he really is, especially for his sword fighting ability. It seems to me that in the show he's Cersei's brother, a Lannister, killed the previous King during the rebellion, and a good swordsman.

TV Show spoilers through last night's episode

Spoiler:
He says "I was that hand" or whatever, and that's close, but it doesn't even begin to touch how much of a big deal losing that hand is. Yes, losing a hand in our world would really, really suck, and in that world (no modern medicine) it would suck even worse. But Jaime Lannister is the greatest swordsman to ever live and he was right handed. I feel that it's a bigger deal in the book than it is on screen.


I still love the portrayal of Varys. I'm still not sure if that dude has ever told the truth.


Having only read the first 300 pages of the first book and watched the show I never got the sense that he was an amazing swordfighter. I even questioned why his captors stopped at one. It makes more sense and seems almost like a taunt to do what they did just the once instead of twice. (trying to be spoiler free)
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Re: George R.R. Martin

Postby PensFanInDC on Mon Apr 22, 2013 4:01 pm

Exactly. Youve watched the show and haven't found the lure that truly follows his character. The first 300 pages of the first book don't do it justice. IIRC, what happened to him recently happens in Storm of Swords (3rd book) so there are 2.5 books or so before that event. Just keep reading.
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Re: George R.R. Martin

Postby Gaucho on Mon Apr 22, 2013 6:21 pm

So, that sorcerer...

Spoiler:
He's been in that crate for an awful long time, yes?
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Re: George R.R. Martin

Postby the wicked child on Mon Apr 22, 2013 7:03 pm

Kraftster wrote:I am just going to be overly cautious and spoiler this entire discussion. But I question for those who read the books and follow the show. Note that for those responding, I'd prefer to avoid any "book spoilers" of what may happen in the future.

Spoiler:
I feel like this season has been a real snoozefest. This may be attributable to the fact that I marathoned through S1 and S2 and now am actually having to wait week to week to see "what happens next," but I have a question regarding how the books have translated to the screen.

I feel that a lot of the "slow moving" failures that I attribute to the show right now stem from the fact that the show initially sets up, in my opinion, as being a somewhat Stark-centric show. Or, at the very least, that it sets up as having central plot lines. Watching S1, I would have never thought that I might have to be watching Theon Greyjoy enough to be prepared for him deserving 1/10th of an episode at a point where I'm dying to see Tyrell manipulation, how Khaleesi keeps her dragon, etc. And 1/10th an episode in an episode where, if I recall correctly, we don't see Robb Stark or Jon Snow for even a single second.

I think I appreciate the complexity of just how much is going on right now, but I feel like S1 did a bad job of setting the show up as one that would be so slow moving (perhaps out of necessity) and one where literally every character, it seems, is deserving of equal attention and development.

I guess I think this would make for a better book than show in this regard, and I'm just wondering if the books do a better job of setting up the world as being as multi-directional (from a plot standpoint) as it seems to be.

Spoiler:
I think the first season (and book, for that matter) give a false impression that this is a Starks vs. Lannister story with some side action... whereas they themselves are only a piece of the bigger whole. I guess I can understand why some pieces of the story don't really feel like they "matter" now, but everything that is happening is for a reason. Some story lines are more important than others, but I can assure you that none are pointless.

I can maybe understand your point of view to an extent because it would be more challenging to get where some of these things are going when you only get scenes here and there. Season 2 occasionally dragged for me a bit during the initial viewings, but I felt it was much better when I watched it from start to finish when the blu-ray came out. Perhaps you'll feel the same towards S3 when it's all said and done...

I feel like S3 is doing a better job of handling the multiple story lines than season 2 did... I also feel like a hell of a lot more is happening, but then again, I know more of what is on the horizon, so I can see where the stuff is leading...

Stick with it though... you'll be glad you did.
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Re: George R.R. Martin

Postby DelPen on Mon Apr 22, 2013 7:06 pm

Things while keep getting better. We are entering some of the best parts if the books soon. If these translate as well as when Dany "buys" the Unsullied this should be great.

And question
Spoiler:
Theon just appears as Reek, right? This is just to keep the actor in the series because he's not even in Storm of Swords as I recall. And I also don't remember Varys having a sorcerer in a box. And I am still missing Strong Belwas.
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Re: George R.R. Martin

Postby the wicked child on Mon Apr 22, 2013 7:12 pm

DelPen wrote:Things while keep getting better. We are entering some of the best parts if the books soon. If these translate as well as when Dany "buys" the Unsullied this should be great.

And question
Spoiler:
Theon just appears as Reek, right? This is just to keep the actor in the series because he's not even in Storm of Swords as I recall. And I also don't remember Varys having a sorcerer in a box. And I am still missing Strong Belwas.

Minor SOS spoilers to follow...
Spoiler:
I don't remember if Theon was in SOS tbh. If he was, it was as Reek... but really don't recall. They can't really let him disappear for 2 seasons though, so I am fine with them spending the occasional scene on him... especially because it allows them to play up how sick Ramsay is. Perhaps Strong Belwas will be added later (like Season 4 later)... can't imagine they will leave him out forever... but they are probably trying to keep the number of new characters down.
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Re: George R.R. Martin

Postby Gaucho on Mon Apr 22, 2013 7:22 pm

I just realized that Vaerys and Olenna are taking a stroll in the Arboretrum in Trsteno, Croatia.

/csb
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Re: George R.R. Martin

Postby the wicked child on Mon Apr 22, 2013 7:37 pm

Lady Olenna is easily my favorite new character. Her dialogue has largely been out of the book, but she's been portrayed extremely well. Her + Varys together was fun.
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Re: George R.R. Martin

Postby Digitalgypsy66 on Tue Apr 23, 2013 9:31 am

Gaucho wrote:I just realized that Vaerys and Olenna are taking a stroll in the Arboretrum in Trsteno, Croatia.

/csb

It's a beautiful place. I have other things in mind when I hear Croatia, not Mediterranean paradise. Sigh. You Europeans are lucky to be close to all of that sort of thing. :lol:

Also: it was announced that Strong Belwas is not in the show, which is unfortunate. More streamlining, and one less face to keep up with. Good to see Barristan again, though.
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Re: George R.R. Martin

Postby Gaucho on Tue Apr 23, 2013 9:45 am

Digitalgypsy66 wrote:
Gaucho wrote:I just realized that Vaerys and Olenna are taking a stroll in the Arboretrum in Trsteno, Croatia.

/csb

It's a beautiful place. I have other things in mind when I hear Croatia, not Mediterranean paradise. Sigh. You Europeans are lucky to be close to all of that sort of thing. :lol:



True. Then again, it's not like you people on the other side of the pond don't have your fair share of scenic awesomeness. :wink:
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Re: George R.R. Martin

Postby Idoit40fans on Tue Apr 23, 2013 9:48 am

Multiple 5 hour flights over the past week have allowed me to do some work. I've gotten well through A Game of Thrones and Ned is about to get excecuted, Jon just saved Mormont, and Khal Drago just decided to go to the Seven Kingdoms for war. Still have to watch Sunday's episode though...so I will now leave this thread.
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Re: George R.R. Martin

Postby Gaucho on Tue Apr 23, 2013 10:04 am

I just realized (happens a lot these days) that...

Spoiler:
...the knight who's travelling with Danaerys is related to the Lord Commander of the Night's Watch. Is that something I should've known by now and simply missed?
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Re: George R.R. Martin

Postby Digitalgypsy66 on Tue Apr 23, 2013 10:07 am

Gaucho wrote:I just realized (happens a lot these days) that...

Spoiler:
...the knight who's travelling with Danaerys is related to the Lord Commander of the Night's Watch. Is that something I should've known by now and simply missed?

Spoiler:
I'm not sure. I've read the books, and it is mentioned early on that they are related...and there is a reason why the elder Mormont took the Black, but I don't remember why.
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Re: George R.R. Martin

Postby eddysnake on Tue Apr 23, 2013 10:07 am

Lightning Lord was great, can't wait to see next week. Good choice with actor, his voice is awesome.
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Re: George R.R. Martin

Postby canaan on Tue Apr 23, 2013 10:22 am

Digitalgypsy66 wrote:
Gaucho wrote:I just realized (happens a lot these days) that...

Spoiler:
...the knight who's travelling with Danaerys is related to the Lord Commander of the Night's Watch. Is that something I should've known by now and simply missed?

Spoiler:
I'm not sure. I've read the books, and it is mentioned early on that they are related...and there is a reason why the elder Mormont took the Black, but I don't remember why.

Spoiler:
Joer took the black as an endgame profession. I saw it honorable. He wanted Jorah to have Bear Island.

and yes, it was mentioned in the series that Joer was a Mormont and that Jorah was his son.
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Re: George R.R. Martin

Postby Idoit40fans on Wed Apr 24, 2013 7:52 am

PensFanInDC wrote:Exactly. Youve watched the show and haven't found the lure that truly follows his character. The first 300 pages of the first book don't do it justice. IIRC, what happened to him recently happens in Storm of Swords (3rd book) so there are 2.5 books or so before that event. Just keep reading.


Yeah, I finally watched the episode last night, so I'm comfortable wandering in here, but I definitely enjoy Jaime's character in the book a lot more. I'm not at the end of A Game of Thrones yet, but its already establishing that he's the best.
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Re: George R.R. Martin

Postby Letang Is The Truth on Fri Apr 26, 2013 11:40 am

so why did they release theon just to have the same guy come back and capture him...?
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Re: George R.R. Martin

Postby PensFanInDC on Fri Apr 26, 2013 11:42 am

Letang Is The Truth wrote:so why did they release theon just to have the same guy come back and capture him...?


Part to torture him and part because the guy who let him go wanted a reward for capturing him
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Re: George R.R. Martin

Postby Letang Is The Truth on Fri Apr 26, 2013 11:45 am

ah. also, those stupid valryians were stupid for not expecting anything for danaerys
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