You're the GM 2013-14, 2014-15

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Re: You're the GM 2013-14

Postby MRandall25 on Wed Apr 24, 2013 3:18 pm

I think we should try to see what we can get for Despres.























Spoiler:
:slug:
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Re: You're the GM 2013-14

Postby FLPensFan on Wed Apr 24, 2013 3:20 pm

thehockeyguru wrote:I know I am going to catch some flak for this, but my #1 prioirty would be to ask around and see what I could get for Malkin.

No reason for flak, it's your opinion. I just don't see if happening after we had to let Staal go. I don't see who we could get back in a trade that would make this team better in the long run.
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Re: You're the GM 2013-14

Postby pens_CT on Wed Apr 24, 2013 3:23 pm

Nizzy wrote:The Story of Evgeni Malkin will end like this:

July of 2013, he will sign an 8-year, 71 Million dollar contract. 71 being significant by his jersey number. This turns out to be 8.875 per year. He will be honored to be the highest paid player on the team. Crosby won't care one bit.

Why would Crosby be upset? Based on your proposed Malkin contract, Geno makes 16 million (actual salary not cap hit) less than Sid over the length of that proposed deal. I doubt Malkin or his agent (who also is Crosby's agent) take 16 million less. People need to wake up to the fact that Malkin and is agent will push for a similar salary to Sid's deal, and due to the new CBA rules, that it will exceed a 10 million/year cap hit.
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Re: You're the GM 2013-14

Postby thehockeyguru on Wed Apr 24, 2013 3:28 pm

FLPensFan wrote:
thehockeyguru wrote:I know I am going to catch some flak for this, but my #1 prioirty would be to ask around and see what I could get for Malkin.

No reason for flak, it's your opinion. I just don't see if happening after we had to let Staal go. I don't see who we could get back in a trade that would make this team better in the long run.


If we could get a good young center and a young defenseman in return which would free up some cap space, I'd do it.
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Re: You're the GM 2013-14

Postby Fire0nice228 on Wed Apr 24, 2013 3:32 pm

Nizzy wrote:The Story of Evgeni Malkin will end like this:

July of 2013, he will sign an 8-year, 71 Million dollar contract. 71 being significant by his jersey number. This turns out to be 8.875 per year. He will be honored to be the highest paid player on the team. Crosby won't care one bit.


Crosby shouldnt care because he'll be making 12 mil a year for the first few years of genos contract, then 10.9 for a few more, then 9.6 for a few more after that and then genos 8 year contract will EXPIRE and then Sid will make 3.0 per year while Gene goes to Russia for his farewell tour.


there is 2 schools of thought on this. 1) Contracts pre/post new CBA are not compatible/comparable. or 2) You take Sids real salary (not cap hit, (86.4 million)) for the first 8 years and come out with a cap hit of 10.8 mil. Do you think Geno will take basically 15 million dollars LESS than Crosby during those 8 years?

or somewhere in the middle?

We'll find out this summer.

edit: pens_ct beat me to it while I was researching/typing this post.
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Re: You're the GM 2013-14

Postby It'sagreatdayforhockey! on Wed Apr 24, 2013 4:11 pm

Froggy wrote:i think we probably let kennedy test the waters. someone will either match his 2mil or give him more based on the fact that he scored 20g one year and has a ton of post season experience.


I guess it makes sense if you actually think about it, but on a quick glance, wow....

Tyler Kennedy has more playoff experience than Jarome Iginla.



FLPensFan wrote:You are right in some respects, and Edmonton is probably a bad choice. But there will be teams that are looking to bring on a big, reasonable contract to stay above the cap floor. Ottawa has 19 players signed for next year and is just under the cap floor. Martin might make a nice replacement for Gonchar, who is UFA. The Islanders have 14 players signed for next year and are almost 10mil below the cap floor. If they lose Mark Streit to free agency, they will need a big contract to eat up space, not to mention some serious help on defense.



What year am I in? :D
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Re: You're the GM 2013-14

Postby FLPensFan on Wed Apr 24, 2013 4:28 pm

I'm going to stray slightly off topic and make things a bit more interesting by asking if you were the Pens GM for the 2014-2015 season, what would you do?

That is really the season to look at, because:

1. First year Malkin and Letang contract extensions kick in.
2. More big name UFAs (Orpik, Kunitz, Niskanen, Vokoun
3. Most players that would be signed in 2013-2014 would still be on the roster in 2014-2015.

First, rid the roster of this years UFAs/RFAs and 2014 UFAs/RFAs, and you have left:

Crosby 8700K
Neal 5000K
Bennett 900K
Martin 5000K
Fleury 5000K

14.6mil in Forwards,5mil in Defense, 5mil in Goal =24.6mil committed to 5 players
Expected Salary cap in 2014-2015 would be the same 64.3million

UFAs from past 2 seasons Iginla, Morrow, Murray, Dupuis, Malkin, Kunitz, Jokinen, Adams, Eaton, Cooke, Vitale, Orpik, Letang, Niskanen, Engelland
RFAs from past 2 seasons are Kennedy, Bortuzzo, Hartzell, Jeffrey, Sutter, Despres

1. Malkin and Letang would be resigned, 9mil for Malkin, 6.5mil for Letang
CAP TOTAL 41.1mil for 7 total players (WOW, that is crazy).
2. Sutter is resigned for 3mil, 2 years.
CAP TOTAL 44.1mil for 8 players.

At this point, I'm not even going to finish. This really gives a BIG PICTURE of what is going on with the Pens. They need to win now, and win next year, because in 2014-2015 the core will have to be blown up. There is no way to keep Malkin, Letang, Crosby, Fleury, Neal, and Martin on this team beyond next year with the cap where it is, and still field a competitive team.

I'd expect a lot of short term deals from this point on except for Malkin, Letang, maybe Sutter. Anything that is long-term, I would expect would also be moveable if needed. By 2014-2015 we are going to need at least 2 of those young D-men (Dumoulin, Harrington, Maata, Pouliot) to step in on the blue line and add some cap relief that way.
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Re: You're the GM 2013-14

Postby Wjsan on Wed Apr 24, 2013 4:35 pm

Fire0nice228 wrote:
Wjsan wrote:
I would love to keep Iggy but Martin would have to go and he would have to take a pay cut. Maybe a 5 for 5 deal, peddle Martin for some draft picks and sign Iggy for 5.


You want to sign Iggy through age 40 at 5 million per season?


No, I mean sign Iginla for 5 mill for no more than 2-3 years and peddle Martin for draft picks to get rid of his big contract. Just a thought.
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Re: You're the GM 2013-14

Postby RisslingsMissingTeeth on Wed Apr 24, 2013 5:18 pm

Not going to re-quote all of FLPensFan's post but suffice it to say. Marginal players on the Pens can look like all-stars (cough-Neal-cough) and the reality is that a number of these players will have the stats to get them huge contracts elsewhere. Then the Pens will bring in some players that look like nobodies and then the whole process starts over again.

In other words, I expect significant roster turnover.

P.S. - all of this said, Letestu really does like solid in Columbus.
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Re: You're the GM 2013-14

Postby columbia on Wed Apr 24, 2013 5:22 pm

Who is more valuable to the team, Martin or Neal?
Just sayin'.
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Re: You're the GM 2013-14

Postby RisslingsMissingTeeth on Wed Apr 24, 2013 5:32 pm

columbia wrote:Who is more valuable to the team, Martin or Neal?
Just sayin'.


We've won a ton of games with neither of them so I guess the answer is, does it even matter? Not trying to be a jerk, just have had a couple weeks to really look at the depth of this team.
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Re: You're the GM 2013-14

Postby MRandall25 on Wed Apr 24, 2013 5:54 pm

Martin is more important than Neal. The team defense is that much better when he's in the lineup as opposed to the offense when Neal isn't in the lineup (and even then, Neal needs Malkin or Crosby to put up numbers).
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Re: You're the GM 2013-14

Postby Fire0nice228 on Wed Apr 24, 2013 6:05 pm

The thing with the cap squeeze for 2014-2015 is that the Pens can suck it up, keep the core, maybe not do quite as well for a season or two while the cap recovers, and then by 2016-2017 have cap space again. I mean, thats what I would do if I was in charge. The core will still be early 30's which is plenty left in the tank to make another couple serious runs when they have enough space to get some decent enough depth players.

Orpik, Kunitz, Niskanen, Vokoun. To be quite frank, I don't really want any of these guys to be on the team in 2014. Orpik will be 34, Kunitz 35, Vokoun almost 40, and Nisky just isn't that good.

But yeah, the Pens need to win and win now or it could be a few years while they reload
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Re: You're the GM 2013-14

Postby sniper on Wed Apr 24, 2013 7:51 pm

The first thing you do is find out what it's going to take to re-sign Malkin and Letang. If Malkin will take anything under $10M/yr you do it. Letang you try to get for $6.5M/yr or less. Sign both to 8 year deals.

Let Morrow, Iginla, Murray, Cooke walk.

Re-sign Dupuis for around $2 to 2.2M/yr for 2 years maybe 3.

Re-sign Jeffrey (2yr) and Eaton (1yr) for about the same they are making now.

Trade either Engelland or Bortuzzo to make room for Dumoulin.

Re-sign Kennedy for 1 yr or trade him and use the cap space to sign Morrow.

Kunitz (3.725M) Crosby (8.7M) Dupuis (2.2M)
Bennett (0.9M) Malkin (8.7M) Neal (5M)
Jokinen (2.1M) Sutter (2.07M) Kennedy(2.1M)/Morrow (3M)
Glass (1.1M) Vitale (0.55M) Jeffrey (0.6M)

Orpik (3.75M) Martin (5M)
Niskanen (2.3M) Letang (3.5M)
Eaton (0.725M) Despres (0.84M)

Bortuzzo or Engelland (0.56M)
Dumoulin (0.9M) or other D man.

Fleury (5M)
Vokoun (2M)

Cap hit $62.5M with Kennedy or $63.3M with Morrow. You could add a league minimum depth forward..maybe Adams. I think Dumoulin (or other D man) could also be sent down to save some space.

The following year is tougher.

Malkin at 10M and Letang at 6.25 to 6.5M kicks in.

Kunitz, Orpik, Niskanen, Jokinen, Vitale, Glass, Vokoun become UFA. Sutter and Despres are RFA. If Morrow is kept he is also UFA. I think Kennedy would be UFA.

Kunitz will be 35 this year. If he is still playing well sign him for a yr at same salary or less.

Orpik will be 34. Again give him up to 2 years at same salary if he is playing at same level.

Let Niskanen walk unless Orpik isn't holding up and there is nothing better in UFA in price range.

Re-sign Jokinen if possible $2.2M for 2 years. Re-sign Vitale for (0.6M) for 2 years.

Let Glass and Vokoun walk. If Morrow is still around let him walk. Same with Kennedy.

Re-sign Sutter for $2.6-3M for as many years as possible. Re-sign Despres for $1.5-2M for as many years as possible.

Kunitz (3.725M) Crosby (8.7M) Dupuis (2.2M)
Bennett (0.9M) Malkin (10M) Neal (5M)
Jokinen (2.2M) Sutter (2.6M) UFA
UFA Vitale (0.6M) Jeffrey (0.6M)
UFA

Orpik (3.75M) Martin (5M)
Despres (1.5M) Letang (6.25M)
Pouliot (1.35) Dumoulin (0.9M)
Bortuzzo (0.6M)

Fleury (5M)
Zatkoff (0.6M)

Total $61M and you need to sign 3 forwards for the bottom 2 lines. Likely the Cap goes back up this year to say $68M. So you have $7M to sign 3 guys and to take care of what may be somewhat low estimates for Despres and Sutter. I did use Pouliot's salary which is the highest of the potential internal D men who might be able to make the team. If Kunitz or Orpik aren't playing at similar level to now you let them walk and go shopping UFA who fits your salary structure. The 3rd D pairing might be a little scary, but should still be workable. As the cap rises in subsequent years they might be able to upgrade some positions depending on how some of the younger guys like Bennett, Despres, and the other D men progress and what their salary demands become. The following year Martin would be UFA as would potentially Kunitz. May lose one of them.

Bottom line they don't need Iginla. He is a luxury they can't afford.

If they can sign Malkin and Letang for around the $10M and $6.5M per yr figures or less to long term deals you do it. I don't think you give up your young stars to keep complimentary or aging players with mid range salaries like Kunitz, Orpik, Iginla, Morrow. Losing them hurts, but they are easier to replace a year or two later when the rising cap gives you more room and you remain competitive in the mean time.

I don't think any team can go for it year after year. I think you have to keep your core of young stars together and as the cap rises while their cap hits remain constant you make your upgrades and go for it in a 2 to 3 year window. The years your cores new cap hits kick in will be the down years.
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Re: You're the GM 2013-14

Postby Beveridge on Wed Apr 24, 2013 8:00 pm

I'm going to revisit this after playoffs, but I start by going 8 years 76 million for Geno (AAV of 9.5) and 8 years 50 million for Letang (AAV of 6.25).

I don't think any teams (maybe 1 or 2) would offer Geno more than 7 years 70 million so I think the extra 6 million and extra year keep him at a 500k less cap hit.

If Letang thinks he can get close to 50 million on just a 7 year deal, then either move him for a package (I will also come back to this) or let him walk. I just don't see any team even offering him 7 years at 49 million.
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Re: You're the GM 2013-14, 2014-15

Postby Nizzy on Wed Apr 24, 2013 9:09 pm

multiple people requesting / already talking about 2014-15 so I added it to the title. Going to put together my 13-14 first.

Some really good posts everyone. Good point, about the malkin making more than crosby thing.

I like those malkin/letang AAV's Bev.
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Re: You're the GM 2013-14, 2014-15

Postby KG on Wed Apr 24, 2013 9:12 pm

Obviously depends on how we do in the playoffs. But I would love to find a way to keep Iginla, Morrow and Murray. They have a lot left to give and bring an element to the team that we would be seeking to replace if they leave.

Dupuis is the wild card. They really can't (won't/shouldn't?) overspend to keep him. He deserves a big pay day, he will probably get that and he should take it.

Cooke, Kennedy gone.
I wouldn't be surprised if Niskanen gets dealt for picks, save some cap space. Orpik probably won't get moved as he is part of the "core."

Again, let's see what kind of run we go on as presently constituted and we go from there...

Malkin/Letang also need to be re-signed!
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Re: You're the GM 2013-14, 2014-15

Postby Gaucho on Wed Apr 24, 2013 9:24 pm

There's no way we'll be able to keep Despres beyond 2017. Deal him in 2015 for a draft pick in 2016. Replacement should be ready by 2019. Hindsight is 2020.
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Re: You're the GM 2013-14, 2014-15

Postby Headshot77 on Wed Apr 24, 2013 9:34 pm

Gaucho wrote:There's no way we'll be able to keep Despres beyond 2017. Deal him in 2015 for a draft pick in 2016. Replacement should be ready by 2019. Hindsight is 2020.

We're going to have to give up a lot to get Hindsight, he will be really valuable by then.
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Re: You're the GM 2013-14, 2014-15

Postby shmenguin on Wed Apr 24, 2013 9:36 pm

-if we lose dupuis, iginla and morrow, then at worst, bennett and jokinen will be our other 2 top 6 wings. that's not awful
-i think we'll get cooke back at around the same price
-kennedy is probably gone. though if he can be brought back at a pay cut then maybe he'll be re-signed if we lose all our UFAs
-adams is playing at the same level as he was last year. while i think that level is extremely low, the team seems to like him for some reason. i expect him to be re-signed. our 4th line will be the exact same as we started the year with.
-niskanen will be traded if we need cap room
-murray is a catch 22. if we go deep in the playoffs, he'll get poached in july by someone who can pay him more

here's my guess...

kunitz-sid-iginla
bennett-geno-neal
cooke-sutter-jokinen
vitale-adams-glass

letang-depres
orpik-martin
bortuzzo-eaton-engelland

dupuis and murray become too expensive, niskanen is traded for cap reasons, iginla re-signs at 5 mill, maybe morrow is in there for cooke. if we can't get iginla back, maybe we keep dupuis or just promote jokinen and re-sign TK on a 1 year deal.
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Re: You're the GM 2013-14, 2014-15

Postby mikey287 on Wed Apr 24, 2013 10:08 pm

Gaucho wrote:There's no way we'll be able to keep Despres beyond 2017. Deal him in 2015 for a draft pick in 2016. Replacement should be ready by 2019. Hindsight is 2020.


Good post, would read again. :thumb:
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Re: You're the GM 2013-14, 2014-15

Postby FLPensFan on Wed Apr 24, 2013 10:21 pm

mikey287 wrote:
Gaucho wrote:There's no way we'll be able to keep Despres beyond 2017. Deal him in 2015 for a draft pick in 2016. Replacement should be ready by 2019. Hindsight is 2020.


Good post, would read again. :thumb:


Can't get to reading this post again until 2021. :D
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Re: You're the GM 2013-14, 2014-15

Postby Nizzy on Wed Apr 24, 2013 10:48 pm

2013-14

Niskanen (2.3) - TRADE I Start by trading Niskanen in the offseason. The goal is to try and replace one of the draft picks that were used for acquiring players in the previous season. Niskanen is completely expendable due to the defensive prospects. I do not personally like Nisky in the top 4, and do not believe he is a top 4 consistent player. His 2.3 is too valuable, and needs to be gone to bring back Murray. Murray addresses more of a need = crease clearing defenseman. Why Niskanen has some offensive talent, I fully believe that the combination of Despres/Bortuzzo can pick up the duties. Could Nisky bring in a 3rd round pick?

Murray (2.5) - SIGNED I've been doing research on Murray. Cornell grad, captain of the team. Went from a 3 year, 1.65M total deal, to a 4 year 10M deal (current), and I offer him a 3 year deal/8 mill total for a slight AAV raise. He's 33 so I believe we can get good use out of him for a few more seasons. He is needed. Look at the team from Gill until Borts/Engelland. We need toughness on the bottom pairing. Haven't had the crease clearing since Gill. Need to keep Murray.

Bortuzzo (.525) - SIGNED Bortuzzo is 24 years old. So I give him a 2 year "Transition" contract. After these 2 years, he'll still be RFA, and we should have a better idea of his worth at that time to offer him a longer term deal. 2 years, 1.5M total, .750k AAV.

Eaton (.725) - WALK Mark was such a great veteran pick up, not sure how much he would have left for an entire season at age 36. I think another year of Despres/Bortuzzo helped their development and they should be fine picking up Eaton's playing time. Good luck on some dumb team like the Flordia Panthers or Tampa Bay Lightning.

Kennedy (2.0) - TRADE The time has ran out for the Little Tiger Grinder. Beau Bennett will need a new contract in the near future, and TK just cannot be making anywhere near 2.0M. He worked well with Staal/Cooke because they were able to get the puck deep, Cooke leading, Jordan/Tyler cycling. TK got a lot of big goals around the net for this team in the past 5 years. He just hasnt got any better, no more skills to add...I trade him to some dumb team like Phoenix for a 5th round pick or something.

Morrow (4.1) - WALK This is a tough decision, however I decide to let Morrow go, or if he requests a list of teams, trade his rights after the season before UFA. He had a great playoffs in 2008 with the Stars, and most dallas fans weren't to high on him this past year. I question whether he has the motor for another full season, or even multiple seasons. If he was 32 instead of 34, it would be a completely different discussion. I was thinking for a second about what other teams he could play for next year. Something tells me some team like the Winnipeg Jets are going to throw some serious cash at him for a 3-year deal.

Iginla (7.0) - SIGNED I offer him a 2 year, 4.0M AAV deal. Iggy is another tough guy to play against and I question how much he has left. He's has to know, that he has to take a discount to stay here. However 4.0M for a 36 year old (turning 36 on July 1) winger with all his miles on his body is a decent deal for both sides. I think he can still produce. He'll turn 38 years old when the deal is over, could retire, or go back to CAL for another season. His house is on the market which is driving a lot of questions. I've heard he doesn't want to play in the WEST so he doesn't risk matching the Flames at any point. I think he wants to play a few seasons here.

Dupuis (1.5) - SIGNED Pascal has turned into the perfect player for a Dan Bylsma's system. Multiple areas of his game have got better since hes been here. I will try to offer him a 2 year deal. I think 3 year deal is too much right now. Hes still a few fast player. I think Pascal is well aware of who he plays with, which helps his stats. I think he can jump from 1.5M to 2.5M. I offer him 2 year, 5M. Its a strong discount that he's taking. Many teams out there would probably offer him 3M per year. I think he probably wants to stay here, but might not be able too.

Cooke (1.8) - WALK I let Cooke go in the offseason. I think a change of scenery is a good thing at this point in time, for both sides.

Adams (.675) - WALK Too old now. I never liked having a guy on the team just for PK really. I don't know why Crosby/Malkin can't do some PK. We are bringing back Dupuis. Maybe Vitale can take over on the PK now.

--------------------------------------------------------

Dupuis (2.5) - Crosby (8.7) - Iginla (4.0)
Kunitz (3.725) - Malkin (8.7) - Neal (5.0)
Jokinen (2.1) - Sutter (2.06) - Bennett (.900)
Glass (1.1) - Vitale (.550) - Jeffrey (.800)

Letang (3.5) - Despres (.840)
Orpik (3.75) - Martin (5.0)
Murray (2.667) - Bortuzzo (.750)
Engelland (.566)

Fleury (5.0)
Vokoun (2.0)

Total = 64.208
Cap = 64.3
Free = >.1

--------------------------------------------------------
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Re: You're the GM 2013-14, 2014-15

Postby mikey287 on Wed Apr 24, 2013 10:53 pm

Hmm...that was strangely coherent. Good on ya...
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Re: You're the GM 2013-14, 2014-15

Postby columbia on Wed Apr 24, 2013 11:45 pm

Was that a compliment?
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