You're the GM 2013-14, 2014-15

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Re: You're the GM 2013-14, 2014-15

Postby mikey287 on Thu Apr 25, 2013 12:07 am

columbia wrote:Was that a compliment?


Yes, relatively speaking.
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Re: You're the GM 2013-14, 2014-15

Postby DesertPenguin on Thu Apr 25, 2013 8:03 am

.5M one way or another on contracts for Dupuis, Iginla, Murray, Morrow etc will make all the difference on whether you can keep them. You cannot keep them all.

I also expect RS to begin negotiating with Malkin and Letang immediately after the season (hopefully in mid-late June!) so he knows what his cap picture looks like moving forward.

Jokinen's 2.1M and Glass's 1.1M are luxuries we cannot afford once those new deals kick in, also.
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Re: You're the GM 2013-14, 2014-15

Postby Beveridge on Thu Apr 25, 2013 8:15 am

DesertPenguin wrote:Jokinen's 2.1M and Glass's 1.1M are luxuries we cannot afford once those new deals kick in, also.


Only one year on those deals, anyhow. They have no impact on Malkin and Letang's new cap hits.

But the overall point, which I think is what you're getting at, is spot on.
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Re: You're the GM 2013-14, 2014-15

Postby Nizzy on Thu Apr 25, 2013 8:38 am

I think out of Dupuis, Iginla, Murray, Morrow that we need to keep the first 3. Morrow is a great, but I see him breaking down first. All the comments the Dallas fanbase made for over a year really concerns me long term. They made the same comments about Niskanen as well. Niskanen is doing better in our system, as the #5. I think Morrow is doing better here on the 3rd line, with maybe less pressure than he had as the captain in Dallas.

Thanks Mikey :)))) <3<3<3<3
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Re: You're the GM 2013-14, 2014-15

Postby Rylan on Thu Apr 25, 2013 8:40 am

Never trust a fanbase's overall thoughts. Generally they are not accurate barometers to the value of a player.
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Re: You're the GM 2013-14

Postby RxBandit66 on Thu Apr 25, 2013 11:26 am

thehockeyguru wrote:I know I am going to catch some flak for this, but my #1 prioirty would be to ask around and see what I could get for Malkin.


Actually I agree with this. If another team offered two young roster players and a high draft pick, it would be tempting. Geno has been great here, at least some of the time. But he loses a ton of draws and can't shake his tendency of taking bad penalties. He'll be 27 in July which is not old by any stretch, but his value will never be greater than it is right now.

And to Nizzy, I agree that Adams is old and has not played well for several seasons now. It's beyond time for him to go, but is there anyone in WBS who can kill penalties? Glass has been a little better lately, but overall the 4th line has not been good. I'd love for them to upgrade here. Jokinen could fill the 4th line center role, but he's very skilled and making 2.1 million, which would be a waste on the 4th line IMO. For some reason, Bylsma does not trust Vitale in that role :?
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Re: You're the GM 2013-14, 2014-15

Postby pcm on Thu Apr 25, 2013 12:36 pm

Shero will trade Martin before the thought of trading Malkin even crosses his mind. Martin is replaceable in the organization's pipeline.

I wonder if Morrow and Iginla won't sign for insanely cheap contracts to stay with this team. I could see Morrow signing for $1.5 for a few years. And what's Cooke going to do? This organization has stood up for him through some rough times. We can't afford him, but will he take a crazy pay cut to make himself affordable? I think there's going to be a huge competition for contracts on this team, that players are going to take a lot less to stay here.
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Re: You're the GM 2013-14, 2014-15

Postby owtahear on Thu Apr 25, 2013 1:03 pm

Okay......the first thing I do is set the mark on where I think I can afford Kris Letang and Geno. Everything revolves around these two guys. If Tanger wants Suter type of money, I have to let him walk. If Geno is willing to take Sid type of money, I am fine with that. If not, you have to move him.

And by moving Tanger or Geno that means at this draft, so you can get some in return instead of leaving as UFA's in 2014.

Every personnel decision I make has to be subordinate to these two players.

I would offer Iginla a 4 year deal (man he looks good still) at a reasonable price (4.5 to 5MM a year) and hope he enjoys it here, sees how he can win/contend for cups every year, score 40 goals and have a much easier travel conditions than they do out West.

Especially if Martin does well in he post season, look to see if you can move him. If not him, at least Matty Ice.
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Re: You're the GM 2013-14, 2014-15

Postby columbia on Thu Apr 25, 2013 1:08 pm

I do question whether Shero can give Geno and Letang open market value contracts.
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Re: You're the GM 2013-14, 2014-15

Postby GreenLantern on Thu Apr 25, 2013 1:12 pm

Again, an ignorant Flames fan here blinded by the light shining off of the Kiprusoffian disciple Iginla.. but there is no way Iginla is worth 4 if Dupuis is worth 3.

I think a lot of people are being naive to the fact that this team is playing incredible hockey and has been for the majority of this season. You guy aren't used to seeing a team play as bad as my Flames.. so you just aren't seeing the bigger picture here. If you take Dupuis off Crosby's line, you take him off the Pens, and his production will drop dramatically. No way this guy puts up 50+ points on any other team. I can see him ending up in Montreal, they love to over pay french players. I have the same opinion of Cooke, and unless he is willing to take a pay cut I can see him being gone as well, probably back to the Canucks.

I really hope the Pens don't make the mistake of over paying Dupuis at the expense of a franchise talent like Iginla. Keep in mind Dupuis is only 2 years younger than Iginla, does he have the skill level to continue this production into his twilight years? Very few players are able to do that, but I believe Iginla is one of them.

If any player wants to stay on this team then they have to start taking pay cuts. That goes for guys like Malkin as well, set the bar. In Calgary when Iginla was in his prime he set the bar, 7 million a year. Nobody could earn over the captain, that was it. Your salary was ranked off of your skill compared to Iginla's and what you can bring to the table. It should be the same in Pitts, and Malkin is not worth the same as Crosby.

It comes down to, do you want to be a Pittsburgh Penguin? If yes, here is your pay cut, if not, there is the open market, best of luck to you. A team like this can't afford to match open market, and shouldn't have to, that is the allure of being a contender.
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Re: You're the GM 2013-14, 2014-15

Postby Rylan on Thu Apr 25, 2013 1:16 pm

I like this Calgary guy. He understands what's up.
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Re: You're the GM 2013-14, 2014-15

Postby headh on Thu Apr 25, 2013 1:26 pm

GreenLantern wrote:Again, an ignorant Flames fan here blinded by the light shining off of the Kiprusoffian disciple Iginla.. but there is no way Iginla is worth 4 if Dupuis is worth 3.

I think a lot of people are being naive to the fact that this team is playing incredible hockey and has been for the majority of this season. You guy aren't used to seeing a team play as bad as my Flames.. so you just aren't seeing the bigger picture here. If you take Dupuis off Crosby's line, you take him off the Pens, and his production will drop dramatically. No way this guy puts up 50+ points on any other team. I can see him ending up in Montreal, they love to over pay french players. I have the same opinion of Cooke, and unless he is willing to take a pay cut I can see him being gone as well, probably back to the Canucks.

I really hope the Pens don't make the mistake of over paying Dupuis at the expense of a franchise talent like Iginla. Keep in mind Dupuis is only 2 years younger than Iginla, does he have the skill level to continue this production into his twilight years? Very few players are able to do that, but I believe Iginla is one of them.

If any player wants to stay on this team then they have to start taking pay cuts. That goes for guys like Malkin as well, set the bar. In Calgary when Iginla was in his prime he set the bar, 7 million a year. Nobody could earn over the captain, that was it. Your salary was ranked off of your skill compared to Iginla's and what you can bring to the table. It should be the same in Pitts, and Malkin is not worth the same as Crosby.

It comes down to, do you want to be a Pittsburgh Penguin? If yes, here is your pay cut, if not, there is the open market, best of luck to you. A team like this can't afford to match open market, and shouldn't have to, that is the allure of being a contender.



I think you are right about players needing to take a discount. Everyone knows that. The debate is will they or won't they and who should they sign because even at a discount you can't keep em all. IMO we are watching the end of an era this season. Unfortunately there are not many people willing to take as steep a discount as they'll need to take in order to keep the core together. It's do or die time for the Pens.
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Re: You're the GM 2013-14, 2014-15

Postby headh on Thu Apr 25, 2013 1:32 pm

columbia wrote:I do question whether Shero can give Geno and Letang open market value contracts.



IMO he won't even consider paying them their open market value and they won't sign for less. There is a clear argument for Malkin to be the best hockey player on earth.

There is a clear argument for Letang being the best Defensive player on earth. If you are either of them why settle for less when you are the best? A cup? They each have one already. A love for Pittsburgh or yinzer nation...why would they love Pittsburgh when Pittsburghers openly crap on them and their toughness? Do either of them live here all year round? I don't know but I'd be shocked if they did. IMO this is the last run with this nucleus in place. After this GMRS will have to trade them.
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Re: You're the GM 2013-14, 2014-15

Postby Nizzy on Thu Apr 25, 2013 1:32 pm

RxBandit66 wrote:
And to Nizzy, I agree that Adams is old and has not played well for several seasons now. It's beyond time for him to go, but is there anyone in WBS who can kill penalties? Glass has been a little better lately, but overall the 4th line has not been good. I'd love for them to upgrade here. Jokinen could fill the 4th line center role, but he's very skilled and making 2.1 million, which would be a waste on the 4th line IMO. For some reason, Bylsma does not trust Vitale in that role :?


To be honest, besides Adams veteran leadership, I'm not sure if he can do anything better than Vitale. I want Adams for this last playoff run. Then Vitale can be the full time 4th line C. We probably will need to pick up another bottom line player for next years playoff run. I don't think it should be a big issue if Jeffrey plays there for a bunch of games.

------------------------------

GreenLantern wrote:Again, an ignorant Flames fan here blinded by the light shining off of the Kiprusoffian disciple Iginla.. but there is no way Iginla is worth 4 if Dupuis is worth 3.

I think a lot of people are being naive to the fact that this team is playing incredible hockey and has been for the majority of this season. You guy aren't used to seeing a team play as bad as my Flames.. so you just aren't seeing the bigger picture here. If you take Dupuis off Crosby's line, you take him off the Pens, and his production will drop dramatically. No way this guy puts up 50+ points on any other team. I can see him ending up in Montreal, they love to over pay french players. I have the same opinion of Cooke, and unless he is willing to take a pay cut I can see him being gone as well, probably back to the Canucks.

I really hope the Pens don't make the mistake of over paying Dupuis at the expense of a franchise talent like Iginla. Keep in mind Dupuis is only 2 years younger than Iginla, does he have the skill level to continue this production into his twilight years? Very few players are able to do that, but I believe Iginla is one of them.

If any player wants to stay on this team then they have to start taking pay cuts. That goes for guys like Malkin as well, set the bar. In Calgary when Iginla was in his prime he set the bar, 7 million a year. Nobody could earn over the captain, that was it. Your salary was ranked off of your skill compared to Iginla's and what you can bring to the table. It should be the same in Pitts, and Malkin is not worth the same as Crosby.

It comes down to, do you want to be a Pittsburgh Penguin? If yes, here is your pay cut, if not, there is the open market, best of luck to you. A team like this can't afford to match open market, and shouldn't have to, that is the allure of being a contender.


Welcome Flames fan! Great post thanks.

In my lineup, I have Dupuis at 2.5M (2 years 5M total) and Iginla at 4M (3 years 12M total). I agree completely that Dupuis really fits this system, got used to Crosby's play style, and would struggle putting up 50 points anywhere else. In addition, I was thinking about what other teams that he could play for. The #1 team that came to my mind was also the Montreal Canadiens lol. Also because they have Therrien up there. I think Dupuis won't take over 2.5M. I think he likes Pittsburgh and will stay for 2 more seasons, maybe 3 at a lower rate. We shall see though how much a team like Montreal is willing to pay.

I fully agree that Iginla looks amazing still. I think he will have 2-3 more solid seasons. 100% need to keep him over Morrow. I don't think Morrow has the motor to keep this up for the entirety of another contract:

Dupuis (2.5) - Crosby (8.7) - Iginla (4.0)
Kunitz (3.725) - Malkin (8.7) - Neal (5.0)
Jokinen (2.1) - Sutter (2.06) - Bennett (.900)
Glass (1.1) - Vitale (.550) - Jeffrey (.800)

Letang (3.5) - Despres (.840)
Orpik (3.75) - Martin (5.0)
Murray (2.667) - Bortuzzo (.750)
Engelland (.566)

Fleury (5.0)
Vokoun (2.0)

Total = 64.208
Cap = 64.3
Free = >.1

P.S. whats your take on IGGY selling his house? Do you think he is ever going to return to the flames eventually? thx
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Re: You're the GM 2013-14, 2014-15

Postby columbia on Thu Apr 25, 2013 1:34 pm

headh wrote:
columbia wrote:I do question whether Shero can give Geno and Letang open market value contracts.



IMO he won't even consider paying them their open market value and they won't sign for less. There is a clear argument for Malkin to be the best hockey player on earth.

There is a clear argument for Letang being the best Defensive player on earth. If you are either of them why settle for less when you are the best? A cup? They each have one already. A love for Pittsburgh or yinzer nation...why would they love Pittsburgh when Pittsburghers openly crap on them and their toughness? Do either of them live here all year round? I don't know but I'd be shocked if they did. IMO this is the last run with this nucleus in place. After this GMRS will have to trade them.


I should have been more explicit. I don't think Shero can do that for both of them.
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Re: You're the GM 2013-14, 2014-15

Postby SolidSnake on Thu Apr 25, 2013 1:36 pm

Rylan wrote:I like this Calgary guy. He understands what's up.

Ditto
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Re: You're the GM 2013-14, 2014-15

Postby Nizzy on Thu Apr 25, 2013 1:41 pm

I haven't spent one second looking into my 2014-15 cap roster yet...however, I can't see anything working (malkin contract, letang contract, keeping iggy) unless Martin's cap hit comes off the books. I think next year has to be his last season in Pittsburgh either way.
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Re: You're the GM 2013-14, 2014-15

Postby headh on Thu Apr 25, 2013 1:43 pm

Nizzy wrote:
RxBandit66 wrote:
And to Nizzy, I agree that Adams is old and has not played well for several seasons now. It's beyond time for him to go, but is there anyone in WBS who can kill penalties? Glass has been a little better lately, but overall the 4th line has not been good. I'd love for them to upgrade here. Jokinen could fill the 4th line center role, but he's very skilled and making 2.1 million, which would be a waste on the 4th line IMO. For some reason, Bylsma does not trust Vitale in that role :?


To be honest, besides Adams veteran leadership, I'm not sure if he can do anything better than Vitale. I want Adams for this last playoff run. Then Vitale can be the full time 4th line C. We probably will need to pick up another bottom line player for next years playoff run. I don't think it should be a big issue if Jeffrey plays there for a bunch of games.

------------------------------

GreenLantern wrote:Again, an ignorant Flames fan here blinded by the light shining off of the Kiprusoffian disciple Iginla.. but there is no way Iginla is worth 4 if Dupuis is worth 3.

I think a lot of people are being naive to the fact that this team is playing incredible hockey and has been for the majority of this season. You guy aren't used to seeing a team play as bad as my Flames.. so you just aren't seeing the bigger picture here. If you take Dupuis off Crosby's line, you take him off the Pens, and his production will drop dramatically. No way this guy puts up 50+ points on any other team. I can see him ending up in Montreal, they love to over pay french players. I have the same opinion of Cooke, and unless he is willing to take a pay cut I can see him being gone as well, probably back to the Canucks.

I really hope the Pens don't make the mistake of over paying Dupuis at the expense of a franchise talent like Iginla. Keep in mind Dupuis is only 2 years younger than Iginla, does he have the skill level to continue this production into his twilight years? Very few players are able to do that, but I believe Iginla is one of them.

If any player wants to stay on this team then they have to start taking pay cuts. That goes for guys like Malkin as well, set the bar. In Calgary when Iginla was in his prime he set the bar, 7 million a year. Nobody could earn over the captain, that was it. Your salary was ranked off of your skill compared to Iginla's and what you can bring to the table. It should be the same in Pitts, and Malkin is not worth the same as Crosby.

It comes down to, do you want to be a Pittsburgh Penguin? If yes, here is your pay cut, if not, there is the open market, best of luck to you. A team like this can't afford to match open market, and shouldn't have to, that is the allure of being a contender.


Welcome Flames fan! Great post thanks.

In my lineup, I have Dupuis at 2.5M (2 years 5M total) and Iginla at 4M (3 years 12M total). I agree completely that Dupuis really fits this system, got used to Crosby's play style, and would struggle putting up 50 points anywhere else. In addition, I was thinking about what other teams that he could play for. The #1 team that came to my mind was also the Montreal Canadiens lol. Also because they have Therrien up there. I think Dupuis won't take over 2.5M. I think he likes Pittsburgh and will stay for 2 more seasons, maybe 3 at a lower rate. We shall see though how much a team like Montreal is willing to pay.

I fully agree that Iginla looks amazing still. I think he will have 2-3 more solid seasons. 100% need to keep him over Morrow. I don't think Morrow has the motor to keep this up for the entirety of another contract:

Dupuis (2.5) - Crosby (8.7) - Iginla (4.0)
Kunitz (3.725) - Malkin (8.7) - Neal (5.0)
Jokinen (2.1) - Sutter (2.06) - Bennett (.900)
Glass (1.1) - Vitale (.550) - Jeffrey (.800)

Letang (3.5) - Despres (.840)
Orpik (3.75) - Martin (5.0)
Murray (2.667) - Bortuzzo (.750)
Engelland (.566)

Fleury (5.0)
Vokoun (2.0)

Total = 64.208
Cap = 64.3
Free = >.1

P.S. whats your take on IGGY selling his house? Do you think he is ever going to return to the flames eventually? thx


Dupuis is producing just as much as Kunitz over the past two seasons but you have him making $1.2 million less. Why do you think he'd happily accept that?
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Re: You're the GM 2013-14, 2014-15

Postby headh on Thu Apr 25, 2013 1:46 pm

Nizzy wrote:I haven't spent one second looking into my 2014-15 cap roster yet...however, I can't see anything working (malkin contract, letang contract, keeping iggy) unless Martin's cap hit comes off the books. I think next year has to be his last season in Pittsburgh either way.


I think if they take an aggressive approach with securing Simon Despres and Robert Bortuzzo then the writing is on the wall regarding both Orpik and Martin.
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Re: You're the GM 2013-14, 2014-15

Postby GreenLantern on Thu Apr 25, 2013 1:50 pm

Nizzy wrote:
P.S. whats your take on IGGY selling his house? Do you think he is ever going to return to the flames eventually? thx


I posted something about this in the house thread, linking Iginla's press conference, but he has essentially said he had his choice of 29 hockey teams to go play for and he chose Pittsburgh. He chose this team because they have the two best players in the world, Sidney Crosby and Evgeni Malkin. He stated that he wants to play with those players and ultimately win a Cup. The only way I see Iginla leaving Pittsburgh is if they decide not to sign him at a discount (which as I said above would be foolish) OR he wins a Cup this year. He doesn't see any other team in the league with a better chance than the Pens. And keep in mind his list was submitted BEFORE Murray, BEFORE Morrow, so he isn't just jumping on the bandwagon hoping this one shot works out.

Iginla is a fierce competitor and the only quality that might go above this is his loyalty. He stuck to the city of Calgary like the class act he is despite season after season of crap players and disappointment. As the Captain should he take some blame for this disappointment? Absolutely. But the fault does not lie entirely at his feet. How does that old saying go, you can lead a man to water but you can't make him drink? Oh gosh now I am getting philosophical? Someone stop the madness!

The truth of it is, if it wasn't for him and Kipper the Flames would never had made the playoffs, we never would have had that magical 04 run and I would probably be on medication for severe depression. This kind of loyalty is what you want on your team, Iginla described leaving Calgary as hands down the toughest decision he has ever made in his life. A lot of people will say "Oh yea, no brainer..." but really think about that statement. The toughest decision in your entire life? When all you want to win is a Cup and this team is clearly going full rebuild and you still hesitate down to the last minute to leave? Loyal to a fault.

Also keep in mind that Iginla plays 82 games, and no offense but that seems to be pretty rare for stars on the Pens. In any training camp be it world junior, Olympic or NHL Iginla has always been praised as the best in shape, year after year, the guy is a fitness maniac.

As for selling his house, this doesn't surprise me as I said in the other thread, he summers in BC and I don't expect he will return to this area for at least a few years. The only way he comes back to Calgary as a hockey player is if he wins a Cup this year like I said above.. but even then I can't see it. The Iginla era is over and the best thing he can do for the Flames right now is stay away and let them rebuild their identity. He might come back to retire there if his current team isn't competitive, but believing that team will be the Pens I can't see it.

I fully expect he will be involved in the organization in some way post retirement though. Bah wow long post, sorry for the novel, can you tell I like Iginla? :)
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Re: You're the GM 2013-14, 2014-15

Postby FLPensFan on Thu Apr 25, 2013 3:12 pm

Nizzy wrote:I haven't spent one second looking into my 2014-15 cap roster yet...however, I can't see anything working (malkin contract, letang contract, keeping iggy) unless Martin's cap hit comes off the books. I think next year has to be his last season in Pittsburgh either way.

I liked your last roster post. It will still be a problem for 2014-15 season, and someone (Martin, Fleury, Malkin, Neal) is going to need to be dealt before 2014, as they would still have over 45mil tied up in less than 10 players.

Only other concern is, I can't see letting both Cooke and Morrow walk. Need to keep some element of toughness in the top 9. Sign one or the other, or find someone outside the organization who can fill the role of tough, gritty, able to score about 15 goals a season.
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Re: You're the GM 2013-14, 2014-15

Postby Idoit40fans on Thu Apr 25, 2013 3:21 pm

Its a little early to worry about 2014-2015. don't have any idea what the cap will look like then.
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Re: You're the GM 2013-14, 2014-15

Postby It'sagreatdayforhockey! on Thu Apr 25, 2013 4:43 pm

Nizzy wrote:
Dupuis (2.5) - Crosby (8.7) - Iginla (4.0)
Kunitz (3.725) - Malkin (8.7) - Neal (5.0)
Jokinen (2.1) - Sutter (2.06) - Bennett (.900)
Glass (1.1) - Vitale (.550) - Jeffrey (.800)

Letang (3.5) - Despres (.840)
Orpik (3.75) - Martin (5.0)
Murray (2.667) - Bortuzzo (.750)
Engelland (.566)

Fleury (5.0)
Vokoun (2.0)

Total = 64.208
Cap = 64.3
Free = >.1



Sounds reasonable, but the cap space is too tight. I'm not sure if Glass should be considered overpaid, but he is on this team. That seems like a contract that the pens can eat and make better use of the space. Might also need to make it an Iginla, Dupuis and Murray (pick 2 of the 3 deal) and move Bennett/young Dman up the line up with a salary min guy moved into the bottom spots.

Those moves add 2.5-5.0M in cap space and lets us set up again to make deadline moves or deal with injury call-ups.
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Re: You're the GM 2013-14, 2014-15

Postby Fire0nice228 on Thu Apr 25, 2013 4:54 pm

Idoit40fans wrote:Its a little early to worry about 2014-2015. don't have any idea what the cap will look like then.


But we do. The cap for 2014-2015 will be 64.3 million.
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Re: You're the GM 2013-14, 2014-15

Postby Big Easy Pens Fan on Thu Apr 25, 2013 5:10 pm

Wow, there is just so much to digest in this thread, I think I'm getting indigestion. :face: If GMRS reads this thread, he will probably quit. I think some of y'all are overthinking this thing. In any case, It's gonna shake itself out anyway...I hope. :scared:

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