OFFICIAL Gameday Thread: Game 3: 5/5/13 Penguins @ Islanders

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Re: OFFICIAL Gameday Thread: Game 3: 5/5/13 Penguins @ Islan

Postby Eismann on Sun May 05, 2013 10:04 pm

SoCalPenguin wrote:Surprise them with a 1-2-2


I was thinking that in the second. At least they deliberately slowed thepace. I loved how they stood with the puck. Of course, it wasn't ultimately effective, but I acknowledge that db made an adjustment that the players followed.
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Re: OFFICIAL Gameday Thread: Game 3: 5/5/13 Penguins @ Islan

Postby SoCalPenguin on Sun May 05, 2013 10:05 pm

murphydump55 wrote:
SoCalPenguin wrote:Surprise them with a 1-2-2


yeah right...stick to the system.

If that doesn't work.

Revert back to the system.

Still not working?

Try the system.

It's what Bylsma does, we've seen it year after year. Stubborn. One way to do it and that's it.


Yeah I'm getting tired of the get to our game BS. Unlike last year I think Dan will overcome his inner demons and adjust, because with all these moves his job might finally be on the line.
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Re: OFFICIAL Gameday Thread: Game 3: 5/5/13 Penguins @ Islan

Postby Hugo Stiglitz on Sun May 05, 2013 10:05 pm

Malkamaniac wrote:This is why I feel it's a coaches thing ultimately as well. Bylsma's next option for line swapping appears to always be either grasping at straws, or putting Malkin/Crosby together. The fact that Iginla isn't even used correctly bothers me. It's playoff hockey time, if you're not using all the weapons you have in the right instance, you're doing it wrong.


Here's what happens:
1) The Penguins are on a rush, get a shot, the Islanders get the rebound and are in the Penguins zone faster than the Penguins get there.
2) Now the Penguins are playing catch up, scramble and are just all over the place allowing the Islanders to cycle. Once they get back into their own zone, they're so jumbled it's difficult to settle down and play solid positional defense.

Rinse. Repeat.

What needs to happen:
1) The Penguins don't rush off the transition. They clog up the ice( I guess a trap of sorts), chip their way into the Islanders zone, cycle and shoot.
2) Play safe. These errand passes by Sid, Malkin and Letang can't be attempted when you're playing a team that can grab a turnover and transition faster than you can.
3) Shoot! Shoot! Shoot! Leave players near the blue line. Sometimes it's good to activate your D and sometimes it's not. Right now, it's not.

A big flaw for the Islanders is combatting the cycle. The Penguins are too skilled for them in a solid cycle and they take penalties. The Penguins need to play more on the perimeter rather than everyone surrounding the net. Those rebounds are not working out in the Penguins favor because everyone is in too deep.
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Re: OFFICIAL Gameday Thread: Game 3: 5/5/13 Penguins @ Islan

Postby shmenguin on Sun May 05, 2013 10:06 pm

Hugo Stiglitz wrote:I don't think speed is the problem. The Penguins have plenty of speed.


glass - average speed at best
cooke - pretty slow
adams - slow
morrow - slower
sutter - even slower
iginla -not fast
crippled malkin - still pretty fast, but he's no uncrippled malkin
kunitz - good skater, not a burner
jokinen - good skater, not a burner
bennett - not particularly fast
dupuis - legit fast. our only burner in the lineup
sid - god

eaton - 100 years old, based on today
murray - yeah...
martin - not fast
niskanen - good enough skater
depres/engo - pretty good but not super fast
letang - well he's ok

...speed wise, this is a below average lineup. i don't even think we're close to being a fast team

edit: dupuis is the only FORWARD burner. letang is beyond burner
Last edited by shmenguin on Sun May 05, 2013 10:10 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: OFFICIAL Gameday Thread: Game 3: 5/5/13 Penguins @ Islan

Postby Fire0nice228 on Sun May 05, 2013 10:06 pm

DB always says the same thing.. 'we have to get to our game' over and over again. "we didnt get to our game enough" was his quote after game 2. Well dan thats kinda hard to do when the Islanders have the puck and are flying into your zone unopposed time after time after time. Banging their heads against a wall would be more productive than continuing to attempt to do what clearly isn't working. Its infuriating.

Sure DB bought a reprieve after many were calling for his head earlier this season after the slow start, but alot of that was due to and reverted back to the loss of control and refusal to adapt last post season. We're seeing it again now.
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Re: OFFICIAL Gameday Thread: Game 3: 5/5/13 Penguins @ Islan

Postby SolidSnake on Sun May 05, 2013 10:08 pm

Speed- 1st gear it sucks, 2nd gear even slower, 3rd gear look at the ducks. Slower and Slower.
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Re: OFFICIAL Gameday Thread: Game 3: 5/5/13 Penguins @ Islan

Postby Rocco on Sun May 05, 2013 10:11 pm

Fire0nice228 wrote:They're not the joke that everyone made them out to be. Wake up and smell the coffee.


It's not mutually exclusive that the Isles are playing really well and the Pens are playing like absolute idiots.
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Re: OFFICIAL Gameday Thread: Game 3: 5/5/13 Penguins @ Islan

Postby MRandall25 on Sun May 05, 2013 10:11 pm

Fire0nice228 wrote:DB always says the same thing.. 'we have to get to our game' over and over again. "we didnt get to our game enough" was his quote after game 2. Well dan thats kinda hard to do when the Islanders have the puck and are flying into your zone unopposed time after time after time. Banging their heads against a wall would be more productive than continuing to attempt to do what clearly isn't working. Its infuriating.

Sure DB bought a reprieve after many were calling for his head earlier this season after the slow start, but alot of that was due to and reverted back to the loss of control and refusal to adapt last post season. We're seeing it again now.


Of course he says that to the media.

He's not going to give up what they did wrong to the public.
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Re: OFFICIAL Gameday Thread: Game 3: 5/5/13 Penguins @ Islan

Postby Fire0nice228 on Sun May 05, 2013 10:11 pm

I would probably like to see Vitale in for glass and , I can't believe I'm going to say this.. TK in for Bennett.

Vitale brings more speed and can forecheck like Glass does and TK shooting it into the goalie for a whistle might actually be a good thing with regards to it slows the game down and makes more start.stop, situations.
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Re: OFFICIAL Gameday Thread: Game 3: 5/5/13 Penguins @ Islan

Postby columbia on Sun May 05, 2013 10:13 pm

Some people here for the sake of arguing will say hold the players accountable too. Whatever.


Maybe I should leave the Internet, if hockey players are no longer accountable for wins and losses.
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Re: OFFICIAL Gameday Thread: Game 3: 5/5/13 Penguins @ Islan

Postby tfrizz on Sun May 05, 2013 10:16 pm

columbia wrote:
Some people here for the sake of arguing will say hold the players accountable too. Whatever.


Maybe I should leave the Internet, if hockey players are no longer accountable for wins and losses.


:thumb:

Bylsma is accountable for not making the proper adjustments, but the players still have to execute and that just isn't happening.
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Re: OFFICIAL Gameday Thread: Game 3: 5/5/13 Penguins @ Islan

Postby Fire0nice228 on Sun May 05, 2013 10:17 pm

Rocco wrote:
Fire0nice228 wrote:They're not the joke that everyone made them out to be. Wake up and smell the coffee.


It's not mutually exclusive that the Isles are playing really well and the Pens are playing like absolute idiots.


You're right, its a combo of both, but my point is that the people who were clamoring about the Pens sweeping easily and that the Pens should roll these guys and even now those that say "the only team that can beat the penguins, is the penguins" were not, and are not living in reality either. Maybe the Islanders are the cause of the Pens "idiotic" play. Call a spade a spade: They're a decent team that has a gameplan to extrapolate their strengths and exploit the Penguins weaknesses, and its working.
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Re: OFFICIAL Gameday Thread: Game 3: 5/5/13 Penguins @ Islan

Postby Fire0nice228 on Sun May 05, 2013 10:19 pm

tfrizz wrote:
columbia wrote:
Some people here for the sake of arguing will say hold the players accountable too. Whatever.


Maybe I should leave the Internet, if hockey players are no longer accountable for wins and losses.


:thumb:

Bylsma is accountable for not making the proper adjustments, but the players still have to execute and that just isn't happening.


execute what? The wrong game plan? I could tell my army to charge that hill, and they could carry out my plan, but if my plan is crap and they get slaughtered by the gunners on the high ground, whose fault is it?

Hockey is an imperfect game. Players are gonna miss passes and shank it on wide open nets and even do something dumb like a no look drop pass at the blue line, coughcough, from time to time. But those arn't reallllllythe issue right now, and thats not "not executing" per say, IMO, and I believe the problems are more systematic.
Last edited by Fire0nice228 on Sun May 05, 2013 10:28 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: OFFICIAL Gameday Thread: Game 3: 5/5/13 Penguins @ Islan

Postby farnham16 on Sun May 05, 2013 10:22 pm

The Pens breakout is in shambles right now because the Islanders are taking away all the options along the wall. The Pens have yet to adjust, hence all the turnovers.
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Re: OFFICIAL Gameday Thread: Game 3: 5/5/13 Penguins @ Islan

Postby bhaw on Sun May 05, 2013 10:35 pm

Scott wrote:
bhaw wrote:There are two issues going on in the defensive zone right now that need to be corrected:

1. Over-pursuit: the Isles are using this against us. When they enter our zone or are controlling it in our end, the Pens are chasing hard. The Islander players are letting the play come to them then passing to open ice, where they have guys waiting. This is where their zone control is stemming from. Pens need to hit their assignments, battle for the puck and move it out.
2. The Isles are playing a lot from the side of our net. Over 50% of the goals this series have been set up or scored from this area. Pens haven't adjusted and are letting them control it in this area. This is very similar to how the Flyers beat us, so I'm sure the Islanders are using tape and seeing if we are still soft along the goal line to set up and shoot. We are, and they are scoring from here.

The 2 goal comeback today by the Islanders was because we sat back and let them come at us. You could pretty much see it coming from the start of the period. We were hoping to ride home on the 2 goal lead. The PP lines were shuffled from what they were to start the game to try and "protect" against SH goals. Ironically, it led to a SH goal. If you aren't sure what I'm talking about, just look at personnel. We swapped out a forward for Martin on our first PP in the 3rd. Trying to protect the lead and stop attacking.


Although I don't disagree with some of your sentiments with Bylsma, you can stop doing what you claim everyone else is doing in making excuses for excuses.
Nobody is saying the Islanders are too fast and using that as an excuse. They are saying the Islanders are fast. Period. Say what you want but the islanders top to bottom are the fastest team in the NHL. Having all that speed will cause players to over pursue. Its no different than in football. Speed is so hard to defend.

The bylsma sentiment I share to some degree. Sometimes he doesn't act like a coach. Sometimes I feel he is afraid to say or do certain things because he doesn't want to upset a star. Its not hard to get under the skin of the player you need to send a message to. It can be done without the player pouting. Michelle Therien was awful at this. He just said whatever and however and it pissed some players off. Bylsma is the other way...he doesn't say or do enough and he knows that the team quit on Michell Therien for being that way.....sssssoooooooo :? :?


I have to assume you quoted the wrong post of mine?

As for your points, it's not like the Pens showed up on Game 1 without knowing who they were playing. If you know the team you are playing is fast, you have to adjust to it. Unfortunately that's a six letter word DB struggles with. Saying that it's understandable we are struggling so much with the 8 seed because of speed is an excuse. We are playing a team that barely made it into the playoffs. The Pens should be able to control a majority of the game instead of being controlled for the last 5 periods. That's what I mean.
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Re: OFFICIAL Gameday Thread: Game 3: 5/5/13 Penguins @ Islan

Postby slappybrown on Sun May 05, 2013 10:41 pm

They've repeatedly "adjusted" their approach throughout the season depending on need and opponent. "Change the approach stupid Dan!" is the new, less mellifluous "SHOOT IT" or "HIT SOMEONE!"
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Re: OFFICIAL Gameday Thread: Game 3: 5/5/13 Penguins @ Islan

Postby MRandall25 on Sun May 05, 2013 10:41 pm

If Bylsma doesn't "adjust", what was that 2nd period?
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Re: OFFICIAL Gameday Thread: Game 3: 5/5/13 Penguins @ Islan

Postby slappybrown on Sun May 05, 2013 10:43 pm

MRandall25 wrote:If Bylsma doesn't adjust, what was that 2nd period?


It's just the default way to criticize the coach in a non specific meaningless way 90% of the time it's trotted out.
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Re: OFFICIAL Gameday Thread: Game 3: 5/5/13 Penguins @ Islan

Postby mac5155 on Sun May 05, 2013 10:44 pm

slappybrown wrote:They've repeatedly "adjusted" their approach throughout the season depending on need and opponent. "Change the approach stupid Dan!" is the new, less mellifluous "SHOOT IT" or "HIT SOMEONE!"

GET IT AHT!
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Re: OFFICIAL Gameday Thread: Game 3: 5/5/13 Penguins @ Islan

Postby Scott on Sun May 05, 2013 10:44 pm

tfrizz wrote:
columbia wrote:
Some people here for the sake of arguing will say hold the players accountable too. Whatever.


Maybe I should leave the Internet, if hockey players are no longer accountable for wins and losses.


:thumb:

Bylsma is accountable for not making the proper adjustments, but the players still have to execute and that just isn't happening.


this goes way beyond the game planning. You can be the greatest strategist in the world but if your message isn't getting to the players then it doesn't matter. Even though these players are adults they still all have different learning curves. If they aren't executing what you are saying then you are doing something wrong. You have to find out way they ARENT doing what you are teaching and change something so they do get it.
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Re: OFFICIAL Gameday Thread: Game 3: 5/5/13 Penguins @ Islan

Postby bhaw on Sun May 05, 2013 10:46 pm

slappybrown wrote:They've repeatedly "adjusted" their approach throughout the season depending on need and opponent. "Change the approach stupid Dan!" is the new, less mellifluous "SHOOT IT" or "HIT SOMEONE!"


So... please explain why this is happening for 5 straight periods:

1. Over-pursuit: the Isles are using this against us. When they enter our zone or are controlling it in our end, the Pens are chasing hard. The Islander players are letting the play come to them then passing to open ice, where they have guys waiting. This is where their zone control is stemming from. Pens need to hit their assignments, battle for the puck and move it out.
2. The Isles are playing a lot from the side of our net. Over 50% of the goals this series have been set up or scored from this area. Pens haven't adjusted and are letting them control it in this area. This is very similar to how the Flyers beat us, so I'm sure the Islanders are using tape and seeing if we are still soft along the goal line to set up and shoot. We are, and they are scoring from here.

"adjust" is short hand for not noticing what the other team is doing and changing your game plan to it. I even did someone like you favor of saying what I mean. But if you feel the need to dumb stuff down, go ahead. I was very clear in what I meant and gave pretty obvious examples that were going on all game.

We could also talk about how the Pens are actually letting NY get to the puck first and hoping to poke it away. Just because he made sweeping adjustments in the regular season doesn't mean he has improved even one iota at making micro adjustments in a series or in a game.

But please, let's talk about how people post more instead of hockey.
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Re: OFFICIAL Gameday Thread: Game 3: 5/5/13 Penguins @ Islan

Postby MRandall25 on Sun May 05, 2013 10:48 pm

Scott wrote:
tfrizz wrote:
columbia wrote:
Some people here for the sake of arguing will say hold the players accountable too. Whatever.


Maybe I should leave the Internet, if hockey players are no longer accountable for wins and losses.


:thumb:

Bylsma is accountable for not making the proper adjustments, but the players still have to execute and that just isn't happening.


this goes way beyond the game planning. You can be the greatest strategist in the world but if your message isn't getting to the players then it doesn't matter. Even though these players are adults they still all have different learning curves. If they aren't executing what you are saying then you are doing something wrong. You have to find out way they ARENT doing what you are teaching and change something so they do get it.


That's BS.

How are these players, who were able to execute the system with one of Malkin or Crosby out, suddenly unable to?

That doesn't sound like the coach's problem, to me. You should be able to add someone like Crosby in there and keep the lineup running. Yet, here we are. How does one lineup play the system to a T, but can't when 1 player is added back into it?
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Re: OFFICIAL Gameday Thread: Game 3: 5/5/13 Penguins @ Islan

Postby bhaw on Sun May 05, 2013 10:50 pm

So it's Sid's fault? :pop:
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Re: OFFICIAL Gameday Thread: Game 3: 5/5/13 Penguins @ Islan

Postby bhaw on Sun May 05, 2013 10:52 pm

MRandall25 wrote:
That's BS.

How are these players, who were able to execute the system with one of Malkin or Crosby out, suddenly unable to?

That doesn't sound like the coach's problem, to me. You should be able to add someone like Crosby in there and keep the lineup running. Yet, here we are. How does one lineup play the system to a T, but can't when 1 player is added back into it?


Micro vs macro issues.

The players softening up and playing "look what I can do too, Sid!" is their fault and they are accountable for that. Having it happen the last 3 times Sid has returned from injury and carrying into a 2nd game is a coaching issue. There's no one person.
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Re: OFFICIAL Gameday Thread: Game 3: 5/5/13 Penguins @ Islan

Postby slappybrown on Sun May 05, 2013 10:52 pm

bhaw wrote:
slappybrown wrote:They've repeatedly "adjusted" their approach throughout the season depending on need and opponent. "Change the approach stupid Dan!" is the new, less mellifluous "SHOOT IT" or "HIT SOMEONE!"


So... please explain why this is happening for 5 straight periods:

1. Over-pursuit: the Isles are using this against us. When they enter our zone or are controlling it in our end, the Pens are chasing hard. The Islander players are letting the play come to them then passing to open ice, where they have guys waiting. This is where their zone control is stemming from. Pens need to hit their assignments, battle for the puck and move it out.
2. The Isles are playing a lot from the side of our net. Over 50% of the goals this series have been set up or scored from this area. Pens haven't adjusted and are letting them control it in this area. This is very similar to how the Flyers beat us, so I'm sure the Islanders are using tape and seeing if we are still soft along the goal line to set up and shoot. We are, and they are scoring from here.

"adjust" is short hand for not noticing what the other team is doing and changing your game plan to it. I even did someone like you favor of saying what I mean. But if you feel the need to dumb stuff down, go ahead. I was very clear in what I meant and gave pretty obvious examples that were going on all game.

We could also talk about how the Pens are actually letting NY get to the puck first and hoping to poke it away. Just because he made sweeping adjustments in the regular season doesn't mean he has improved even one iota at making micro adjustments in a series or in a game.

But please, let's talk about how people post more instead of hockey.

I'm on my phone, but you certainly could be one of the ten percent that isn't reflexively saying "adjust". I didn't read the whole thread, but it's a pretty common refrain and in most cases silly IMO. Chill
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