What's the ruling: Graphics on a resume

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Re: What's the ruling: Graphics on a resume

Postby Gaucho on Mon May 06, 2013 7:20 pm

Times New Roman looks icky on screen, but great on paper.
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Re: What's the ruling: Graphics on a resume

Postby Shyster on Mon May 06, 2013 7:33 pm

tifosi77 wrote:This has turned into a oddly compelling discussion....!

Was talking to my graphic designer buddy about this thread and he sent me this video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wOgIkxAfJsk

:thumb: Nice video. Caslon, in particular, has always been very popular in the United States (oddly, more so that in the creator’s native England). I believe Ben Franklin used a set of type cut by Caslon. For years, typesetters in the U.S. had a saying: “When in doubt, use Caslon.”
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Re: What's the ruling: Graphics on a resume

Postby Gabe on Mon May 06, 2013 8:49 pm

tifosi,

do you have an MS Word version of your template? I'd like to steal it.

thanks
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Re: What's the ruling: Graphics on a resume

Postby tifosi77 on Mon May 06, 2013 9:45 pm

Sure, just pm where you want me to send it.
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Re: What's the ruling: Graphics on a resume

Postby Shyster on Mon May 06, 2013 10:01 pm

Gaucho wrote:Times New Roman looks icky on screen, but great on paper.

There’s nothing inherently wrong with TNR. It was originally designed for newspaper work, so that means it’s on the compact side. There are better choices for long passages of text, but it’s not terrible. The problem with the typeface is it’s been included as a standard typeface for just about every computer operating system for the last 20+ years, and it was the default typeface for Word for most of that time. It’s everywhere, and as the saying goes, “familiarity breeds contempt.” It certainly will not make a document stand out from a pack. And there are other choices that IMO are equally if not more legible and look more elegant/refined/etc.
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Re: What's the ruling: Graphics on a resume

Postby Shyster on Wed May 08, 2013 6:47 pm

The discussion in this thread prompted me to pick up and start reading A Short History of the Printed Word by Warren Chappell and Robert Bringhurst, which I bought used a while back but hadn't gotten around to reading. If anyone has any interest in the history of type and printing, he or she will like this book. For example, did you know that capital and lower-case letters developed separately? That italics were originally a way to save space, not add emphasis? That many typefaces still extremely popular today are based on forms more than 500 years old?

Also, if any of you are mechanical nerds too, I bet you will enjoy this educational video on how the Linotype typesetting machine works. It casts type one line at a time from molten lead, automatically recycling and reusing the forms on the fly.

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Re: What's the ruling: Graphics on a resume

Postby Pitts on Wed May 08, 2013 11:40 pm

skullman80 wrote:
blackjack68 wrote:Basics.

No color.


This is what I've always done. Though I could see if you are going for a graphic arts job or web design that they may be more lenient on creativity that way.

I am an Art Director and my resume is plain as day. Resumes are meant to convey facts and history quickly and legibly. Adding a bunch of junk to it makes it harder to scan for pertinent information. If you want to stand out, send it in a different way. Or, once interviewed, send a unique thank you (fruit or candy basket).
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Re: What's the ruling: Graphics on a resume

Postby bhaw on Thu May 09, 2013 12:40 am

I have done like 60 interviews the last 3-4 months (someone shoot me). For sales, I barely look at the resume other than to see where they've worked and what they've done. I don't care about format, how it looks, etc. The content is more important than the looks. Errors are a big no no (spelling, grammar), but if anyone things fancy fonts or lines separate them, they are over thinking it. If someone put a weird graphic on their resume, I probably wouldn't even notice it.

That's how I look at it from a hiring manager perspective. I also rarely, if ever, ask for a hard copy in the interview because resumes lie, but you can't if I ask you enough questions. I can't tell you how many interviewees say that they are a top 10% performer at their current/past job but don't know how to handle "So let's say you are calling an air conditioning company in town to sell them our services. What do you do when they tell you in the first 10 seconds 'I don't have time for this right now.'"

Oh really? You closed 200% to your goal every month and you can't identify a false objection you get on 90% of your phone calls? Please tell me more...
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Re: What's the ruling: Graphics on a resume

Postby bhaw on Thu May 09, 2013 12:41 am

Do people believe font matters? Unless you are using Wingding, I'm probably not going to notice it :lol: I guess it depends on the job... not for what I hire for though :D
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Re: What's the ruling: Graphics on a resume

Postby mikey287 on Thu May 09, 2013 8:44 am

As someone not in sales necessarily, but always like to be prepared for things, what kind of answer would you like to hear from that question, bhaw? Just out of curiosity...
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Re: What's the ruling: Graphics on a resume

Postby JS© on Thu May 09, 2013 8:49 am

bhaw wrote:I have done like 60 interviews the last 3-4 months (someone shoot me). For sales, I barely look at the resume other than to see where they've worked and what they've done. I don't care about format, how it looks, etc. The content is more important than the looks. Errors are a big no no (spelling, grammar), but if anyone things fancy fonts or lines separate them, they are over thinking it. If someone put a weird graphic on their resume, I probably wouldn't even notice it.


I noticed your spelling error ;)
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Re: What's the ruling: Graphics on a resume

Postby Fire0nice228 on Thu May 09, 2013 1:22 pm

Good discussion folks. I'm about to graduate from college and resume building has been my life for the last 6 months. Mine is pretty plain. And its in Times New Roman. I do have my middle name and its not top right aligned though, so I'm going to think about that.

I did get a great, and paid, internship with it for the summer however.
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Re: What's the ruling: Graphics on a resume

Postby tifosi77 on Thu May 09, 2013 1:38 pm

bhaw wrote:Do people believe font matters? Unless you are using Wingding, I'm probably not going to notice it :lol: I guess it depends on the job... not for what I hire for though :D

For me, it's not a question of the font mattering, in terms of "Wow! Look at that font! I must bring this person in for an interview, because they are clearly a thoughtful individual." It's really just an acknowledgment that some fonts (predominantly serifs and italics) can get screwed up during digital transmission and when being scanned.

That said, I personally prefer the look of sans-serif fonts in general and was using them on my CV for years before I ever got the advice about using them. Of course, back then I had my name and contact information white-on-black in a vertically-aligned text box on the right hand margin. So.... yeah. I call that my "rubber soul" phase.
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Re: What's the ruling: Graphics on a resume

Postby Shyster on Thu May 09, 2013 10:00 pm

bhaw wrote:Do people believe font matters? Unless you are using Wingding, I'm probably not going to notice it :lol: I guess it depends on the job... not for what I hire for though :D

A typeface nerd like me (just one of my many nerdy pursuits) would actively notice what is being used. But I think you would unconsciously notice that one résumé has a more attractive appearance than another. Imagine two gentlemen wearing suits. For one of them, his suit is somewhat rumpled, his tie is askew, and there’s dirt on his shoes. The other one is properly sorted out and looking sharp. I bet you would be more favorably disposed to the better-dressed man, even if you aren’t actively thinking about the rumpled coat and dirty shoes.

As a lawyer, I wear a coat and tie at least five days a week. I’ve notice that I get better, more courteous service in restaurants and other businesses than I do when I’m more casually dressed on the weekends. Are people actively thinking, “Boy, this guy’s dressed up. I better treat him well”? I doubt it. But responses to appearance can be unconscious as well as conscious. When you want something from someone (like a job), I think it’s a good idea to make the best impression in every point of contact, and that includes the document formatting of the résumé.

Matthew Butterick's thoughts on résumés, including a before-and-after comparison of two documents, can be found here:
http://www.typographyforlawyers.com/?page_id=1655
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Re: What's the ruling: Graphics on a resume

Postby bhaw on Fri May 10, 2013 2:19 am

mikey287 wrote:As someone not in sales necessarily, but always like to be prepared for things, what kind of answer would you like to hear from that question, bhaw? Just out of curiosity...


Which one? About the "I don't have time right now" thing?

Acceptable answers:
-That's a false objection and I just need to keep him on the phone and get him interested in what I do (I would ask for more)
-I would ask him for 30 seconds to hear me out (I would ask him what he would say)
-I would ask him a few questions about his business to get him engaged (I would ask what type of questions)
-Good answer (someone who knows their stuff) would sound something like: "Hey, no problem. You're probably busy, but let me ask you one question... do you not have time because you just don't want to deal with a sales call? Really the only reason I was calling was to see if you can handle any more air conditioner installations this month. Because if you can, I think I have something that would help you out. So can you take any more installations?" (I would probably let the scenario play out for a minute to see where they go, but I'd be super happy with that answer. And if someone really is a top sales person in my field, this is a pretty basic answer).
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Re: What's the ruling: Graphics on a resume

Postby bhaw on Fri May 10, 2013 2:22 am

Shyster wrote:
bhaw wrote:Do people believe font matters? Unless you are using Wingding, I'm probably not going to notice it :lol: I guess it depends on the job... not for what I hire for though :D

A typeface nerd like me (just one of my many nerdy pursuits) would actively notice what is being used. But I think you would unconsciously notice that one résumé has a more attractive appearance than another. Imagine two gentlemen wearing suits. For one of them, his suit is somewhat rumpled, his tie is askew, and there’s dirt on his shoes. The other one is properly sorted out and looking sharp. I bet you would be more favorably disposed to the better-dressed man, even if you aren’t actively thinking about the rumpled coat and dirty shoes.

As a lawyer, I wear a coat and tie at least five days a week. I’ve notice that I get better, more courteous service in restaurants and other businesses than I do when I’m more casually dressed on the weekends. Are people actively thinking, “Boy, this guy’s dressed up. I better treat him well”? I doubt it. But responses to appearance can be unconscious as well as conscious. When you want something from someone (like a job), I think it’s a good idea to make the best impression in every point of contact, and that includes the document formatting of the résumé.

Matthew Butterick's thoughts on résumés, including a before-and-after comparison of two documents, can be found here:
http://www.typographyforlawyers.com/?page_id=1655


I don't disagree. If the resume looks like a 2 year old typed it and formatted it, I agree. Those usually contain mistakes though. I guess I never notice font myself, but I do notice just flat out poorly constructed resumes.
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Re: What's the ruling: Graphics on a resume

Postby bhaw on Fri May 10, 2013 2:24 am

JS© wrote:
bhaw wrote:I have done like 60 interviews the last 3-4 months (someone shoot me). For sales, I barely look at the resume other than to see where they've worked and what they've done. I don't care about format, how it looks, etc. The content is more important than the looks. Errors are a big no no (spelling, grammar), but if anyone things fancy fonts or lines separate them, they are over thinking it. If someone put a weird graphic on their resume, I probably wouldn't even notice it.


I noticed your spelling error ;)


The sales people we hire are also pretty poor at being detail oriented :lol:

Damn you...
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Re: What's the ruling: Graphics on a resume

Postby Mango Salsa on Fri May 10, 2013 7:16 am

Im also in the keep it simple camp. Flip through some of these articles from the Readers Digest. There's some good advice from HR professionals on resumes, covers letters and interviews.

http://www.rd.com/advice/work-career/
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Re: What's the ruling: Graphics on a resume

Postby columbia on Fri May 10, 2013 7:19 am

Vaguely related....

Sorry, College Grads, I Probably Won't Hire You
If you're at all interested in media, technology or related fields, please learn a little computer programming.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142 ... hare_tweet
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Re: What's the ruling: Graphics on a resume

Postby ExPatriatePen on Fri May 10, 2013 7:24 am

columbia wrote:Vaguely related....

Sorry, College Grads, I Probably Won't Hire You
If you're at all interested in media, technology or related fields, please learn a little computer programming.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142 ... hare_tweet


The best way to get started:

http://www.codecademy.com/

Is easy, it's quick and you might even find that you enjoy it.
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Re: What's the ruling: Graphics on a resume

Postby mikey287 on Fri May 10, 2013 8:36 am

bhaw wrote:
mikey287 wrote:As someone not in sales necessarily, but always like to be prepared for things, what kind of answer would you like to hear from that question, bhaw? Just out of curiosity...


Which one? About the "I don't have time right now" thing?

Acceptable answers:
-That's a false objection and I just need to keep him on the phone and get him interested in what I do (I would ask for more)
-I would ask him for 30 seconds to hear me out (I would ask him what he would say)
-I would ask him a few questions about his business to get him engaged (I would ask what type of questions)
-Good answer (someone who knows their stuff) would sound something like: "Hey, no problem. You're probably busy, but let me ask you one question... do you not have time because you just don't want to deal with a sales call? Really the only reason I was calling was to see if you can handle any more air conditioner installations this month. Because if you can, I think I have something that would help you out. So can you take any more installations?" (I would probably let the scenario play out for a minute to see where they go, but I'd be super happy with that answer. And if someone really is a top sales person in my field, this is a pretty basic answer).


Thanks for this. :fist:

Off topic, but my rather plain resume got me the job I applied for (well, it was probably the interview, as my resume is a little sparse still, but whatever...)
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Re: What's the ruling: Graphics on a resume

Postby ExPatriatePen on Fri May 10, 2013 8:54 am

mikey287 wrote:
bhaw wrote:
mikey287 wrote:As someone not in sales necessarily, but always like to be prepared for things, what kind of answer would you like to hear from that question, bhaw? Just out of curiosity...


Which one? About the "I don't have time right now" thing?

Acceptable answers:
-That's a false objection and I just need to keep him on the phone and get him interested in what I do (I would ask for more)
-I would ask him for 30 seconds to hear me out (I would ask him what he would say)
-I would ask him a few questions about his business to get him engaged (I would ask what type of questions)
-Good answer (someone who knows their stuff) would sound something like: "Hey, no problem. You're probably busy, but let me ask you one question... do you not have time because you just don't want to deal with a sales call? Really the only reason I was calling was to see if you can handle any more air conditioner installations this month. Because if you can, I think I have something that would help you out. So can you take any more installations?" (I would probably let the scenario play out for a minute to see where they go, but I'd be super happy with that answer. And if someone really is a top sales person in my field, this is a pretty basic answer).


Thanks for this. :fist:

Off topic, but my rather plain resume got me the job I applied for (well, it was probably the interview, as my resume is a little sparse still, but whatever...)

Congrats Mikey! But after watching your posts on here for years I had no doubt that your intelligence a d attention to detail would be recognized by any decent hiring manager. :)
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Re: What's the ruling: Graphics on a resume

Postby mikey287 on Fri May 10, 2013 9:03 am

Thanks EPP, I appreciate that. I do have a career 1.000 batting average in interviews. Not that I've been on dozens of them or anything, but that's a nice confidence boost going into future interviews certainly...
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Re: What's the ruling: Graphics on a resume

Postby ulf on Fri May 10, 2013 9:29 am

Congrats!
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Re: What's the ruling: Graphics on a resume

Postby thepittman on Fri May 10, 2013 12:53 pm

Shyster wrote:
bhaw wrote:Do people believe font matters? Unless you are using Wingding, I'm probably not going to notice it :lol: I guess it depends on the job... not for what I hire for though :D

A typeface nerd like me (just one of my many nerdy pursuits) would actively notice what is being used. But I think you would unconsciously notice that one résumé has a more attractive appearance than another. Imagine two gentlemen wearing suits. For one of them, his suit is somewhat rumpled, his tie is askew, and there’s dirt on his shoes. The other one is properly sorted out and looking sharp. I bet you would be more favorably disposed to the better-dressed man, even if you aren’t actively thinking about the rumpled coat and dirty shoes.

As a lawyer, I wear a coat and tie at least five days a week. I’ve notice that I get better, more courteous service in restaurants and other businesses than I do when I’m more casually dressed on the weekends. Are people actively thinking, “Boy, this guy’s dressed up. I better treat him well”? I doubt it. But responses to appearance can be unconscious as well as conscious. When you want something from someone (like a job), I think it’s a good idea to make the best impression in every point of contact, and that includes the document formatting of the résumé.

Matthew Butterick's thoughts on résumés, including a before-and-after comparison of two documents, can be found here:
http://www.typographyforlawyers.com/?page_id=1655


I think you are in an extreme minority
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